Why didn't I get into to GWU? *frustrated*

Applying to College
1

<p>So I found out that I was rejected as an Early Decision applicant to the Columbian School of Arts at George Washington University and can't help but feel that I was screwed.</p>

<p>Stats
GPA- 10-12th was 3.97 weigted, 3.55 weighted overall because of horrible freshman year where I was absent for over a month.</p>

<p>SAT- 1830SATII- US History 800
Biology 560 or something?</p>

<p>Took 3 AP Courses Junior year, 4 senior year.
Took UCLA PoliSci class over summer got an A.</p>

<p>ECs
-Young Libertarians (527 organization) Founder and President
-Youth for Dig.Pro. Foundation(non-profit organization) Founder, Chairman of the Board of Directors
-Model United Nations Award-winning delegate
-School Newspaper writer
-Hospital Volunteer, Provided transportation for cancer patients
-Make-a-Wish Foundation- assistance to children with cancer</p>

<p>Worked over 20 hours/week in a legal corporation as a volunteer that helps immigrants and lower income families that need legal aid (I asssist them with law forms, the law etc). I come from a low-income family (16k/year).</p>

<p>Father is an immigrant and was publisher of an international magazine that promoted human rights. My mother has schizophrenia, which is one of the most devastating illnesses in the world and caused very distressing behavior at home. She was hospitalized multiple times and there was a time that she held me back from school because she thought I would be killed by "them".</p>

<p>Anyone that wants to read my essays can. They are top-notch as well. But I was denied to the Columbian School (least selective school) at GWU?</p>

<p>Yikes, I know I sound like I am ranting and angry but I'm not... I just think I got shafted.</p>

2

<p>You have my sympathy. Based on what you posted, I can't see why you were rejected. I also checked out GWU's common data set, which you can do here in the common data set (<a href="http://www.gwu.edu/%7Eire/fa.htm)%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.gwu.edu/~ire/fa.htm)&lt;/a>, and it seemed that you stats also are well within their range.</p>

<p>You might want to have your GC call to see if s/he can find out why you were rejected.</p>

<p>One thing that concerns me about your D application is that you are extremely low income, saying on other posts that your EFC is 0. I am wondering whether GWU rejected you because they would not have met your financial need. I notice in other parts of the common data set info that they meet on average 93% of the financial need of entering freshmen, and that drops to 81% of the average need of other undergraduates. The average annual need-based loan for freshmen is about $5,300; for the other undergraduates, $6,900. Students were expected to contribute through work-study, summer employment or other self help on average $6,900 for freshmen, $7,800 for other undergraduates.</p>

<p>It may be that GWU rejected you because they were not willing to provide the financial aid that you'd need. While your stats and other aspects of your application seem to indicate that you were in the range of the students who get accepted there, your stats may not have been stellar enough for GWU to choose to provide you with the financial aid that you need. </p>

<p>Unlike places like HPY, GWU does not guarantee to meet 100% of students' demonstrated financial need nor does it seem to be trying to attract low income or first generation college applicants. My impression is that it's trying to raise its ranking by attracting more high stat students. One way that some colleges do this is by giving out more merit aid (something that I think GWU is now doing since 1/5 of its students now get merit aid). Giving out more merit aid can lure more high stat, low need students who are flattered by getting merit aid.</p>

<p>Here's a link to their financial aid info in GWU's common data set: <a href="http://www.gwu.edu/%7Eire/faid.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.gwu.edu/~ire/faid.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>One important thing to consider: If GWU had accepted you, but had given you a financial aid package that you didn't like, you may have had a lot of difficulty backing out of ED particularly if GWU felt it had met your need. It could have, for instance, met your need by expecting you to take out $15,000 or more a year in loans. Since it seems that GWU meets considerably less of students' financial need aftrer freshman year, you also could have found yourself not being able to afford to attend there after finishing freshman year.</p>

<p>From your other posts, it seems that you're a California resident. If so, you are fortunate to live in the state which has probably the country's best and most affordable public universities. I hope that you have put careful applications into some of those colleges.</p>

<p>I got my doctorate from GWU and am very familiar with it. It's a good university, but not a great one. I believe that you can find other equally good, and far more affordable options including in California.</p>

3

<p>Thank you so much Northstarmom. Your PM to me a few months back and this post have greatly helped me out. </p>

<p>I was under the impression that colleges practice "need-based blind" admissions so I never thought that it would have been a factor. Also, according to US News and Reports, GWU is the #1 university in the nation when it comes to need-based aid, with an average package of $35k. This is what enticed me to apply there. Also, GWU does have fixed tuition and fixed financial assistance so they cannot lower the amount I get per year.</p>

<p>I will definitely ask my GC to help me find out why. I go to a high-income school though and I would just feel embarrassed if my GC would know my financial situation (and possibly tell teachers of mine).</p>

4

<p>You have nothing to be embarrassed about. Indeed, you should want your GC and teachers to know of your financial situation because they can help you get local scholarships, decent jobs and other opportunities. They also can help you get application waivers and other things that will help you out.</p>

<p>It's not a shame to come from a low income family. You've been doing an impressive job of working very hard to make your dreams come true. Also, in the U.S., most people have more respect for people who have overcome challenges in order to succeed than for people who were born with silver spoons in their mouths.</p>

<p>I've been on local, regional and national scholarship committees, and if there's a choice between two applicants that are about equal and one is very needy, virtually all committees will choose the needy one. Unfortunately, I've found that the students with the lowest EFC often do the shoddiest applications, so they don't get picked. (Based on what you've posted, I'm sure that you would get yours in on time and it would be well done!)</p>

5

<p>The GW application did not include me putting in data about my financial situation but I did apply for financial assistance and sent tax returns to GW. Those went to the Office of Financial Assistance I believe so I don't know if the Office of Undergraduate Admissions would get that data and then include that in their decision.</p>

<p>I would just hope that they would make decisions blinded of the financial assistance an applicant needs. They do give an average need-based package of $35k a year, more than any university in the nation.</p>

6

<p>Maybe whoever deferred you hated libertarians..</p>

7

<p>"Maybe whoever deferred you hated libertarians..:
LOL</p>

<p>(Although it sounds as if it's a rejection, not a deferral.)</p>

<p>Like NSM, I also sympathize with the OP, & I'm troubled by what may be in this case what is euphemistically called "enrollment management" -- a separate thing from need-based aid, but its counterpart: How much is this student likely to contribute to tuition, donation, etc.? I often think colleges can figure that out regardless of whether they know there's an actual finan. aid app or not.</p>

<p>I don't think GW is particularly known for generous aid, but that's ironic, since I also know that they get a sizeable number of needy applicants. I was surprised to learn recently what a small award a Federal Pell Grant is, in the overall cost of attendance. Federal money should be much more forthcoming for students of true need, with a tiny or nonexistent EFC.</p>

8

<p>Due to the below, perhaps the admissions office is reluctant to commit now to high need students since GWU's policies in supporting them will be determined by the university's next president, who has not yet been selected.</p>

<p>"Stephen Joel Trachtenberg will step down as president of George Washington University in summer 2007, ending a nearly 20-year tenure in which he helped transform the school from a sleepy institution to one of national stature.</p>

<p>Trachtenberg, an expansive man whose distinctive personal style drew fierce admirers and detractors, announced his departure yesterday in a phone call to the school's board of trustees. He will become president emeritus and a professor in the School of Public Policy and Public Administration."</p>

9

<p>harding, I am so sorry that you were denied to your first choice school, and I can understand that you are very disappointed. </p>

<p>I checked out a couple of your posts, and was thinking about a couple of things:
You say you got around an 1800+ on your SAT's on one try, without prep. My question would be, why didn't you prep, and why didn't you take it a second time? Second, you say your essay is stellar and in one post said you "poured your heart out" in your essay. You may want to have a couple of adults read your essay and be as objective as possible. Did you pour too much emotion into your essay? I'm not saying you did, I'm just suggesting you may want to see if there may be any weaknesses that you don't see. </p>

<p>Your gpa: you say you had a horrible year in 9th grade, but realistically speaking, GW always seems to look more at gpa and class rank than they do at SAT's. If your 9th grade gpa were the same as your next years', would you have vaulted from the 40% into the the top 10% or the top 25%? GW's stats seem to indicate that about 68% of the students are within the top 10-25% of their hs classes, so gpa is a big issue to GW.</p>

<p>Lastly, looking at the resume you repeat elsewhere, you indicate EC's that appear (I may have understood you, so sorry if I did) to add up to about 40 hours a week on ec's during the school year. Is that true? Would it ring true to the admissions committee? And could it lead them to conclude you hurt your gpa through overcommittment?</p>

<p>Please understand I am not saying any of my questions are valid with regard to your actual application, I'm just saying these are questions that pop up based on your quick summary on these threads. </p>

<p>I guess I'm biased, but as the mom of the recipient of some amazingly generous aid from GW, their lack of willingness to give you aid doesn't exactly jump out at me as the obvious answer for denying you.</p>

<p>If you mull over these questions and still feel your app is strong, definitely speak to your GC. And good luck.</p>

10

<p>Someone who wrote the checks told me that GW is the most expensive school in the country, all-in $52k/yr. Only the Ivy league schools and a select few additional universities combine need blind admissions with a commitment to meet 100% of demonstrated need.</p>

11

<p>"Second, you say your essay is stellar and in one post said you "poured your heart out" in your essay."</p>

<p>Hayden raises some important points. I particularly wonder about what you meant when you say that your "poured your heart out" on your essay.</p>

<p>On other threads, you've mentioned family problems such as your mother's being schizophrenic. If you wrote mainly about your family problems, but didn't write in a way that highlighted your own strengths to meet those challenges, you may have either come across as a person who was looking for pity, is an emotional wreck or is a potentially risky admit because their dysfunctional family may not allow them to make the cross country trek. Considering GW is being sued by a student whom they kicked out because of emotional problems, GWU may be very wary of admitting students who seem to be unstable (which they may have thought you were if you submitted an overly emotional essay).</p>

<p>Hayden's idea is a good one of having a trusted, insightful adult like your GC or English teacher look at your essay.</p>

<p>In general, pouring out one's heart on an essay is not a good idea. Showing positive aspects of one's character through anecdotes that illustrate one's character is what good essays do.</p>

12

<p>This aspect of your background that you mentioned in other posts may have made GWU concerned.
" had an absolutely horrible freshman year of high school, with a 2.1 and 2.8 GPA for the semesters, 6 Cs and 6 Bs. I missed over 1 month of school because of a terrible sickness around finals, had to go back to school extremely sick with bronchitis. ..,. My mother has schizophrenia and was not medicated for the disease until my junior year. It caused me alot of grief at school and with friends. I had to move out of my house and live by myself in hotels, friend's houses,etc for much of my early high school career."</p>

<p>While I think it's perfectly understandable that your bronchitis and your mother's psychiatric problems caused your grades to be low, GWU admissions officers may have feared that you would have difficulty handling the transition to college (which is difficult for many students), particularly one that is so far from home and that may also be accompanied by family problems (It's not unusual for parents with emotional problems to decompensate when their kids leave home).</p>

<p>If what your background indicated was that you were able to maintain very high grades despite family problems, that would have counted in your favor. Your not being able to do that, however, could have raised concern in GWU adcoms, particularly since their college is far from your home, which in itself would make your transition to college more difficult than that of students who are going to colleges near their homes.</p>

<p>Here's information about the lawsuit that probably lead GWU to be very cautious about admitting students who seem to be vulnerable to stress:</p>

<p>"George Washington University announced a legal settlement yesterday with Jordan Nott, a former student who sued after he was barred from campus because of potentially suicidal behavior.</p>

<p>Nott's case, filed last fall, opened a national dialogue about how colleges should handle troubled students whose conduct could pose a threat to themselves or others. Nott said, in a joint statement with the university, that he hoped his experience "will result in positive changes in how student mental health issues are handled at campuses across the country."
Nott, 21, checked himself into GWU Hospital in October 2004 for depression and suicidal thoughts. Within hours, the university informed him in a letter that his "endangering behavior" violated the student code of conduct. He withdrew from the school after being barred from his dorm.</p>

<p>In a lawsuit against the institution and individuals involved, Nott argued that the university's actions only heightened the risk of a suicide it should have been trying to prevent. The terms of settlement are confidential.</p>

<p>GWU officials "have spent the better part of the past two years looking at that process" and at how the school might better serve students who could harm themselves or others in the academic community, said spokeswoman Tracy Schario...."
<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/31/AR2006103101193.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/31/AR2006103101193.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>If this is the reason that you were rejected, GWU is not likely to tell your GC because it may make the university vulnerable to a lawsuit. However it is something to keep in mind as you apply elsewhere.</p>

13

<p>Hi I wanted to clear some things up,</p>

<p>Hayden,
-That is the score from the second time I took the SAT. I took a SAT class and really prepped for the Dec. SAT.
-My essays were not very emotional at all. I didn't discuss any personal problems that I had but mainly discussed my extracurriculars and then my experience helping out immigrants in a legal aid office. If any of you would like to read it, I would be happy to show you!
-My GPA was only mediocre my freshman year. Sophomore and Junior Year I did very well, taking many AP courses.
-I was confused with the ECs hours part of the application. For example, if I put 5 hours for 11th grade, that does not mean that I did that EC for 5 hours every single week. For some that I put 10 hours for say 10-12th, that was for about 8 weeks in the year.</p>

<p>-The ONLY place I mentioned my illness during freshman year and mother's illness was in the "Additional Information" section, my essays didn't touch upon those at all. Also, I made it clear that my mother became medicated and has been fine for the past couple years.</p>

<p>My grades were good during sophomore year and near straight As Junior year when I took 3 AP courses and a UCLA class. </p>

<p>Thank you so much for all the help and helping me understand all of this! I will give them a call personally and then possibly have my GC call them.</p>

14

<p>I thought GWU was need-blind?</p>

<p>Northstarmom and Hayden raise interesting points. Despite your justifiable situation, it may also have been due to your early high school grades. Also, I'm not sure if you can, but you should ask if you can apply EDII. Again, I'm sorry, but you can always transfer in.</p>

15

<p>I'm pretty sure GWU is not need-blind. He was probably on the cusp, and his low income didn't exactly help push him over the edge.</p>

<p>Tough luck. Sorry to hear that. If it makes you feel any better, GW, by and large, is a very snobby place, and you probably wouldn't have liked it there anyway.</p>

16

<p>I haven't been able to find any information stating whether freshman admission is need blind or not, but I don't believe financial need is an important factor. Unless of course, you are on the lower end of the applicant pool, as " 4,826 applied for aid, 3,633 were judged to have need, and 2,921 had their need fully met" in 2003.</p>

17

<p>You miss the point qwilde. Non need blind schools often don't take kids who's financial needs they are not prepared to meet so they look generous. Others, like NYU, don't care and accept a lot of people with need who they don't offer it to. School by school philosophy.</p>

18

<p>No, I believe you missed my point. Of the 4,826 that applied for financial aid 2,921 had their need fully met, which is roughly 60% of the applicants. The average need based aid is $16,744 or one half tuition. Considering the amount admitted despite financial need, I highly doubt that a great emphasis is placed upon the student's ability to meet tuition costs.</p>

19

<p>That is what I was thinking qwilde. Thanks for the data.</p>

<p>I had always thought being low-income and having to work hard was an advantage (or atleast for the UCs?). </p>

<p>I'll call them tomorrow and try to find out. I didn't know schools tell you why they rejected you however.</p>

20

<p>If GWU won't tell you why you were rejected, have your GC call.</p>

<p>Please let us know what you hear.</p>

<p>Based on what you have said about your essay, I suspect that the reason you were rejected was need, though it may be difficult to get that info from admissions. I see no evidence that GWU is need blind. I also continue to think it's possible that with the upcoming change in their president, the admissions office may not wish to admit students with high financial need because the new president may wish to use more of their aid as merit aid to try to increase GWU's rankings more.</p>