<p>Why do they want to know where else you are applying/auditioning? Is there any way your answers can be used "against" you and affect your acceptance into a program? I'm speaking about large publics, not the highly selected conservatories. If they know you are auditioning at school X and they realize you have other viable options are they more likely to offer open spots to someone else? I just don't understand why they want to know. If they ask which school is your top choice, or if they ask you if they are your top choice, what is the best answer? I would think that "yes, this school is one of my top choices..." is a good answer, correct?</p>
<p>Well for one reason, if they really want you and want to offer you money, then they need to know who else is competing for your talent. They have a pretty good idea as to what other schools are offering.</p>
<p>imamiger, I posted this link <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/761988-what-do-you-say-sample-lesson-when.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/761988-what-do-you-say-sample-lesson-when.html</a> in your other thread. There may be other related discussions, but I’m having a hard time finding them.</p>
<p>Personally, no experience with publics (large or small), but a couple of thoughts on why it’s asked:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>general data collection if it’s part of the application. I have know idea if it sways an admit one way or another. </p></li>
<li><p>I think if it’s asked within the context of a separate music application, a lesson, or as part of the audition interview process, the reasons could be many. It could indicate any number of possibilities, from the depth or breath of teacher selection, peer quality, prospects for need/talent/stats based aid, what type of research a candidate did in selecting programs or any other of the thousand reasons one assembles as priorities for choosing a (music) program to apply to. Obviously, if the applicant is applying to Juilliard, Curtis, NEC and Podunk State U, Podunk might consider that they’re being utilized as either as a financial or audition safety. If the applicant is competitive at the three “named” institutions, Podunk may react in any number of ways: if the candidate is the best thing since sliced bread, they may go out of their way to snag this catch and offer an extremely attractive package, the department may conjecture the kid will probably not accept and decide not to do much follow-up, recruitment or offer a package that is not indicative of the kid’s level of talent. </p></li>
</ul>
<p>This is conjecture on my part, and it’s one of those questions that unless you are in the position of being “in the know”, I would venture that any answer other than from direct experience may simply be throwing darts.</p>
<p>Perhaps N8MA, fiddlestix, lorelei2702, maybe KatMT who know some of the inner workings might offer their perspectives.</p>
<p>Imamiger wrote: If they ask which school is your top choice, or if they ask you if they are your top choice, what is the best answer? I would think that “yes, this school is one of my top choices…” is a good answer, correct? </p>
<p>The best answer is always the most honest one. Teachers want students who are genuine and they can sniff from a great distance any student that is merely giving them what the student thinks the teacher wants to hear. If the school is not one of your top choices, then you should not say it is. Find a way to respond to the question in an honest yet positive way. </p>
<p>There is a belief that one’s honest/integrity/genuineness shows up in one’s music making; i.e. that a person of integrity is more likely or more able to express genuine and honest feelings/thoughts through their music and that a person utterly lacking in integrity produces music which is derivative and shallow and “dishonest.” I’m not certain that I believe this, but I am becoming more receptive to the idea after having initially dismissing it out of hand as ridiculous. In any case, many musicians subscribe to it and will not look favourably on the potential of a student who appears to be less than genuine.</p>
<p>So, how would I respond specifically to “Is this you top choice?” when it is your bottom choice? I would probably NOT say, “It is my bottom choice.” Schools want students who are articulate and politcally savvy (and I don’t believe that honesty and political savoir are diametric opposites). I would probably respond that I don’t have a single top choice and very briefly explain that the qualities I am looking for are distributed amongst several schools. Mention a particularly desirable feature of the school you are in (and if you can’t think of a particularly strong feature, then you probably shouldn’t be auditioning there!). </p>
<p>I think that only in rare cases would a student have a top choice: there are just so many factors to consider and most of these factors are neither quantifiable nor static, so ranking #1, #2, #3 etc. is usually impossible. </p>
<p>There are several ways to interpret the question about your top choice(s) and here are a couple:
- The asking of the question is just another way to get to know you. How you respond may be just as important as what your response is.
- The asking of the question suggests that the school is interested in you. If you clearly haven’t made the “cut,” then they won’t care whether or not they are a top choice for you. Take the asking as a compliment and some rather slim evidence that you will be admitted.</p>
<p>Very interesting thread. This is an important issue!</p>
<p>Violadad has it more or less right. When I started in 2007, we had no such data for the first three admission cycles and so beginning with the 2009 cycle we started to ask applicants to disclose which other programs they’re considering. I will go ahead and speak for not just Bard but I assume many other conservatories and say it’s merely a planning tool. People in admission offices are interested in their market, so to speak. How deep is their penetration in certain regions, or with participants in a certain summer program? This question, paired with other data from the application, is helpful in contributing to a better picture of the school’s applicant pool. I’ve seen this question on many schools’ forms. Not sure if it’s SOP or not, but I’ve seen it often enough. </p>
<p>For us in particular, are we overlapping with standalone conservatories, other LACs, universities with schools of music, other double-degree programs? Are we overlapping with schools we didn’t expect to overlap with? Does this then disclose a hidden market for applicants? These are questions I like to ponder, but we need to get the data as grist for the mill. </p>
<p>I cannot imagine a situation where a real music school would use this information to discount or disqualify a student. Also, if you leave the section blank, we at least won’t penalize you in any way. But even if you tell the folks at Juilliard you’re also considering Curtis, or USC that you’re auditioning at UCLA (trying to think of other relevant rivalries but drawing blanks), the professionals at these institutions know when to draw the line between jibes and serious admission decisions. </p>
<p>But that’s what administrators care about, and why. If a teacher or faculty member asks this question, either during a lesson or right after an audition, violindad is correct that many times they’re sniffing a little because they’re interested (*but see below). </p>
<p>However I feel if the question is shifted from “what other schools are you considering” to “is this school your top choice?” is a bit more fishy. I don’t like it–in the case of a state school, it could be inviting Tufts Syndrome if they’re tired of always being someone’s “safety.” I mean, what is the perfect school? Isn’t it the institution that the student loves that will ALSO admit him/her, AND s/he can also afford? So can that question be answered in an audition, without all of the necessary information? It strikes me as inappropriate but there may be contexts I’m not considering.</p>
<p>Having said that, it’s always a good idea to tell your top choice they are your top choice. I see no downside to volunteering this information (when it’s honest) but the school fishing for this kind of response seems a bit dodgy to me. </p>
<hr>
<p>One thing I’ve noticed is that while many musicians are very comfortable with the admission/audition process–they went through it and some continue to go through it–it helps to remember these people are also human beings, and some of them feel truly bad whenever they have to turn someone down. Small-talk in a lesson or audition can show interest in someone’s talent, but it could also be the faculty feeling awkward because they know they’re not going to accept this individual. I think some times the “what other schools” question gets asked because the faculty member in question wants to feel better about making this difficult but necessary decision to reject an applicant. Hearing someone mention a particular program then helps them say “well at least they’ll get in there.” (Whether or not they eventually do is immaterial; the faculty have their sense of the field on their instrument). </p>
<p>I know most folks reading this are parents about ready to jump in to the fray of auditions, so I don’t expect anyone’s sympathy on the plight of these poor faculty members. But I mention it as a way of saying people are very hard to read, and you never can truly guess the result of an audition–based on its length, number of works played, reactions of the faculty (bored, hostile, tired, engaged, ebullient), or the applicants’ own subjective analysis–until you have that letter in writing.</p>
<p>I have to say that I’m truly greatful for these threads. My D has her first audition in 2 weeks - and as luck has it, her first one is at the school she wants most. Someone said to her the other night that she would have a good idea how if she was going to get in when the audition was over - I interupted and said no, you never know until you get the letter. So, N8Ma, your comments remind us that this is a human process. From another thread, I was able to tell my daughter not to panic if they cut her off, and from this one I can just tell her to not second guess herself, and just be honest with her adjudicators/interviewers. If the school is a good fit, our kids will get in. If they don’t, it might just be a blessing in disguise.</p>
<p>Wise words, BeezMom. Fitting in is probably more important than just being good enough to get in. Just like plants, musicians thrive in healthy environments that give them appropriate amounts and mixtures of challenge, encouragement, peers, instructors, etc… Every plant species needs a different amount of sunshine, water, and nutrients, and every student requires a unique blend too. The auditioning panel knows their school far better than we do and as long as we give them accurate info, they are in a good position to make a decision about fit. As you say, a rejection is probably a blessing because the student probably would not have flourished or been happy in the environment.</p>
<p>BeezMom, knowing that your D is a prospective VP major, I wanted to let you know that your D will most likely not be stopped or cut off during her audition. Of course, each instrument is different, but voice is unique in that it is a “living” one. She may have warmed up 15 minutes before her audition or 3 hours, so they want to hear what she sounds like as the piece progresses. Many things won’t be expected at this level, but they can hear the dynamics of her entrances,how she presents,etc. Make sure that she knows the background of her pieces and the settings, if appropriate, and that she takes extra music along in case the panel wants to hear something from another period, in another language, another tempo… It happens, better to be prepared!
Good luck to all and safe trips too!</p>
<p>N8ma, thanks for saying that about college representatives. I work in our HS college center and, while rarely meeting a representative from a music school/dept./conservatory, the reps are VERY human and are in a very difficult position. There was a wonderful editorial I read last year from an admissions rep at Tufts who spoke of having something like 100 wonderful, qualified candidates and yet having only 20 spots he was allowed to advocate for (I’m summarizing/paraphrasing, not quoting). </p>
<p>At music schools, I’ve learned since our adventure last year that numbers of openings vary widely from year to year. Sometimes it really looks like there is a trumpet (or other instrument) “shortage” while other years schools cannot possibly accept all the talented trumpet players out there. E.g., I know Oberlin has no freshmen jazz bass players this year. Does that mean Oberlin will accept more bass players this year? I suspect the answer is yes, if there are a number of qualified bass players, they may accept more than “usual” whatever that is. At any rate, it is hard for the students to get across “who” they are and also hard for the admissions staff to recognize it and not have a place for everyone. I also wish there were a REAL way to tell how many openings there are in a particular instrument at each school, but I don’t think that will ever be the case.</p>