why do colleges want interesting people?

Applying to College
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<p>
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It seems to me that the college or university (certainly a private institution, if not publicly funded ones) has the right to determine the standards and criteria by which they will determine admission. If a prospective student doesn't agree with those criteria, perhaps that's an indication that the school is not a good fit , academically or philosophically.

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<p>Tell that to the government. Universities don't use affirmative action because they feel bad for the applicants, they use it because they receive money by being "diverse." Additionally, the reality is that many aspects of academia are prestige-based, and future employment will be affected by which schools the applicant attends and what kind of education those schools offer. Not agreeing with the admission criteria would only be valid if every university was equal and there were such a large number of them that they could cover virtually every academic/philosophical viewpoint.</p>

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I find it amusing that the historical reason for the change from simple grades and test scores (in other words, objective academic achievement) to things like extracurriculars, and the subjective 'qualities of leadership' in college admissions originated in anti-semitism, so colleges could have an excuse in limiting the number of Jews who attended.

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<p>Historically, all of the unobjective parts of the application process have been used to enforce social norms or to evade meritocracy. Look at, say, George W. Bush, who got into Harvard before the SAT was a major factor in admission. Currently, I see the subjective aspects of the application as no more than a way of enforcing social norms/conformity on the student.</p>

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[quote]
Maybe schools are looking for the most intelligent people. anyone, really, can get a 2400 and 4.0 by studying all day in an American school; it's only those that can do that PLUS have lots of ECs that are really smarter (than the ppl who get those scores but don't have ECs).

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<p>If you want to get the smartest students, ask for their IQ; that's the only surefire way to do it, however controversial it may be. You're really just guessing that students who do get these scores with good ECs are smarter, but there's an entire field of research to back up the IQ stance.</p>

22

<p>I think a lot of this has to do with cultural differences between America and say, China. China has a long history of bureaucracy based on merit--you take tests to determine your place in the socioeconomic hierarchy. That will probably change with Beijing's unprecedented economic boom, but for now the system is what it is. "The American Dream" is much more about individual ingenuity and pioneering new fields. It makes sense that American universities, therefore, like to see kids who can take initiative, carve out their own niche, and find their own definition of success from an early age.</p>

23

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<p>thats a f-load of bull you got there. JPN has a growth rate of 5.5% and CHN is growing at 10%+. The US unfortunately is at the danger of recession. Also, CHN has MANY regulations on the mainland (due to the socialism crap), but not on shenzhen or hong kong. Plz do your hwk before posting sth that you don't know.</p>

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<p>well, firstly, China's economy isn't all the great- their reporting system, well, its ain't all that honest</p>

<p>and it is doing what it is doing, not based on its OWN "work" but the inventions of other countries, but the manufacturing may be done there</p>

<p>As for Japan, there is a serious suicice rate among teens and adults....</p>

<p>and if you think that you need to be a "leader" to make a difference, think again</p>

<p>its the people that do the WORK that make a difference- does it take a "leader" to help a cancer patient, to read a book to a homeless child...making a difference can be one person at a time</p>

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<p>the percentages that were reported here for the Chinese economy have been shown to be a bit, well, exagerated...do you trust that government to honestly report the facts? if so, well.....</p>

<p>ps- the disparity between the haves and have nots in China is huge, corruption is rampant, pollution is dire, and much of what they do is poorly made and manufactured by slave labor </p>

<p>btw zth....we do know what we are talking about...and it is not so much "socialisn" crap anymore, its a dictatorship, with some "capitilism" bantered about, and lots of facism</p>

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<p>It's probably both. Yes, the chinese government does like to exxagerate, but there's no doubt that their economy is doing a lot better than the US no matter what.</p>

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<p>Why would they try to lie about their economy boost? It's already shown that China will become a world "superpower" soon..</p>

<p>And China isn't "facist" or much "socialist" anymore, it turned mainly capitalistic with a communist tag after Deng Xiaopeng stepped in. </p>

<p>Some of China's issues are quite serious (pollution, some cases of forced labor, censorship) , but its just hyped up by American media, which causes you to say and assume "we do know what we are talking about...and it is not so much "socialisn" crap anymore, its a dictatorship, with some "capitilism" bantered about, and lots of facism".</p>

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<p>the pollution is horrible; i was in shanghai this summer and you can't see the tops of buildings cuz of it</p>

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<p>
[quote]
thats a f-load of bull you got there. JPN has a growth rate of 5.5% and CHN is growing at 10%+. The US unfortunately is at the danger of recession. Also, CHN has MANY regulations on the mainland (due to the socialism crap), but not on shenzhen or hong kong. Plz do your hwk before posting sth that you don't know.

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chill out there big guy. you are the one who has no idea what you are talking, "Also, CHN has MANY regulations on the mainland (due to the socialism crap)," sorry but that was funny! :P do you even know what socialism is? to be fair though, when people talk about regulations in regards to economies, they are more than likely talking about regulations on industry, etc.</p>

<p>i said that China's economy is growing more rapidly than the United States' economy, so i'm not really sure why you gave me that stat on China. anyways, it is a fact that there is less regulation in China. if you follow the stock market you would know that Chinese stocks were all the rage last fall and winter. Chinese stocks are typically volatile and post huge gains of like $3or $4 a day or huge losses of the same magnitude. i remember in October, STV went from $39 to $51 in like a week and then fell back down to $39 by the end of the month. usually, such instability in stock prices is caused by an illegal activity called "insider trading." the magnitudes of the gains and losses indicate that it is highly likely that insider trading is highly prevalent activity in the Chinese stock market. in a country that has more regulations, insider trading is much more difficult to do and most who do it end up getting caught. <em>cough</em> Martha Stewart <em>cough</em>. also, China has almost no regulations on labor practices just look at it's mining industry and it also has a huge problem with corruption: all are symptoms of a lack of regulation.</p>

<p>also, i would like to know where you got that growth percentage for Japan from. i couldn't find it anywhere except for in an article that said the Japan's economic growth rate was 5.5% in 2005. in addition, i would like to point out that if the US goes into a recession a lot of other countries will more than likely enter a recession with us. hence, by saying that, "i doubt that Japan's economy is doing any better than ours," i was highlighting the fact that they are in a similar situation of that of the US.</p>

<p>Narcissa, and zhvxoxqew:
just for your future reference: RAPID economic growth is not necessarily a good thing. hence, it's not as easy as looking at growth rates to determine the condition of a country's economy. there are a lot of things to consider.</p>

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Why would they try to lie about their economy boost? It's already shown that China will become a world "superpower" soon..

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haha. well they would lie about their economic growth to show that they are going to become a world superpower soon.</p>

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And China isn't "facist" or much "socialist" anymore

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i don't think that's quite true. what is true is that they aren't as facist or socialist anymore. look up what a "socialist market economy" is; you'll see that you basically had the right idea but not quite.</p>

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<p>I don't think IQ would be a good thing to include in college admissions for the simple fact that a person who has an insanely high IQ may not have the social skills to be 'smart' in other realms. IQ doesn't necessarily measure someone's success. It just measures their logic ability. I think social skills and street smarts definitely outweigh IQ in the long run because in the long run, the ability to go to a job fair and get a job (based off how you present yourself) overruns cold logic. And the ability to know how to get out of a back alley so you don't get killed/mugged is pretty good, too.</p>

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<p>
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If you want to get the smartest students, ask for their IQ

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<p>That's probably not going to do top colleges all that much for them.
My 160+ IQ cousin failed out of UConn because he has no work ethic.</p>

<p>You try telling a kid who is a standard deviation below that IQ range or two that they don't deserve to go to a top school compared to my cousin even if they would be able to be top of their class.</p>

<p>Work ethic is what matters, not your actual IQ (although if you had an IQ of around 85 or so it may make school a wee bit difficult for you...).</p>

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<p>ha, i don't think we wan't test-taking zombies walking around college campuses.</p>

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<p>^ No, 'course not!</p>

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<p>@ Newjack</p>

<p>I have to agree with zhvxoxqew. I live in China, so I have to agree on most of wat s/he is saying. And about the economic growth thing, I can see like 10 skyscrapers being built right now from my place. I also don't understand how your stock market statistics really relates to the growth of China. All it's telling me is that stock markets are volatile, not a lot of relation to the economy.</p>

<p>But seriously, if you haven't lived in China for several years, then don't make comments about the facism and socialism stuff. There aren't anymore propaganda posters about "Do this for the sake of your country". </p>

<p>Also, I have the feeling that you're trying to avoid the truth that CHN is catching up. Always want to stay in your little reality that your country is the best, right? I love these debates, seriously.</p>

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<p>I'm Indian and I definitely say that China is catching up to the US...aisgzdavinci, I'm on your side!</p>

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<p>This thread is sort of ridiculous. Colleges want people who will succeed in the college, who will contribute to the college while they are there, and who, after graduation, will bring glory to the college's name. And why should they not?</p>

<p>The people who will meet these criteria are different for different colleges. People who did research in high school have potential to become great researchers. Athletes at schools with major athletic programs bring in alumni donations and provide the student body with a means of recreation. Student government kids could be future business executives or politicians. Sustained commitment to specific activities indicates that the student has the discipline necessary to succeed at that college.</p>

<p>People here do also tend to get so focused on the non-academic side of things that they forget that your grades, rigor of schedule, and test scores really do matter. It's just that they only matter to a certain point. Presumably they stop mattering beyond that point because the school has determined that beyond that point, they are no longer useful for determining whether those students will be successful.</p>

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All it's telling me is that stock markets are volatile, not a lot of relation to the economy.

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<p>That's a big LMFAO.</p>

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<p>It's because there are certain intangibles to success, and the ultimate goal of any university is to produce skilled, well educated citizens who are willing and capable of positive societal contributions.</p>

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<p>
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Colleges want people who will succeed in the college, who will contribute to the college while they are there, and who, after graduation, will bring glory to the college's name. And why should they not?

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Lol, and Chinese studnets at Chinese colleges do that VERY well--the whole point of this thread.</p>

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It's because there are certain intangibles to success, and the ultimate goal of any university is to produce skilled, well educated citizens who are willing and capable of positive societal contributions.

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exactly, but I'm saying that Chinese students who test into their top colleges end up being skilled, well educated citizens who are willing and capable of positive societal contributions anyways.</p>

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<p>Narcissa:

[quote]
exactly, but I'm saying that Chinese students who test into their top colleges end up being skilled, well educated citizens who are willing and capable of positive societal contributions anyways.

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first of all, no one is saying that Chinese students don't give back to their universities. anyways, there are already a lot of Chinese students who get into top universities under the current system. lastly, there is a lot of bureaucracy in China and almost everything is awarded by merit. things don't work like that in the US. if you pay attention in your AP US History class you will come to understand that people in the US value much more subjective things when it comes to assigning roles. just look at corporate buzz words: "hardworker", "team player", "goal oriented", "winner", "vision", etc. people who have these abstract qualities are the ones who succeed in the US.</p>

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I'm Indian and I definitely say that China is catching up to the US...aisgzdavinci, I'm on your side!

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hmmm i never said that China wasn't "catching up" to the US. i think that any one who disagreed is ignorant of world affairs.</p>

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But seriously, if you haven't lived in China for several years, then don't make comments about the facism and socialism stuff. There aren't anymore propaganda posters about "Do this for the sake of your country".

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haha why would i need to live in China to know these things? you are outright wrong about the socialism thing. first of all, nothing is wrong with the idea of socialism and almost every democratic government in the world has some socialistic programs that benefit society. most important though is that your country's officials emphasize that their economic policies do not contradict socialism. as for fascism, i said that it wasn't as "fascist" anymore. it still doesn't have a great human rights/liberties record etc.</p>

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[quote]
And about the economic growth thing, I can see like 10 skyscrapers being built right now from my place. I also don't understand how your stock market statistics really relates to the growth of China. All it's telling me is that stock markets are volatile, not a lot of relation to the economy.

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please research this topic some more... :/</p>

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Also, I have the feeling that you're trying to avoid the truth that CHN is catching up. Always want to stay in your little reality that your country is the best, right? I love these debates, seriously.

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<em>cough</em> extreme nationalism <em>cough</em>
dude, chill out. why would i want to debate about which country is better? i was just posting because i know a lot about this subject... anyways, hate to break it to you but even if China's economy passes the US's it'd be a moot point. the quality of life the average American has would still be better than that of the average Chinese. since per capita income correlates to quality of life, China would need to establish a per capita income of about almost $40,000 to match the quality of life in America. achieving such a high level of per capita income would be virtually impossible since China has 1.3 billion people. do $40,000 times 1.3 billion and that's about how much wealth China would need to produce if it really wants to be the next America.</p>

<p>P.S.
guys, i'm not a China hater, i'm just informed and i suggest you become informed too :). (by becoming informed i actually mean read books about this topic. i think it's pretty interesting... oh yea, going on wikipedia isn't sufficient.)</p>