I know there’s much more than grades, but I know so many people with: perfect SAT and ACT, ranked in top 1% of school, international music competitions, math champions, varsity sports, passion for community service, and just overall good character get rejected. Then there are people with low SATs, terrible GPAs, no passion for extracurriculars, who get accepted.
My question is how can these top schools reject people who seem perfect for their schools?
I understand they have extremely low acceptance rates, but its so disheartening to see people work their butts off in school and get rejected by every university… its making me super scared for when my college applications come.
-worried highschooler
Who had “low SATs, terrible GPAs, no passion for extracurriculars” that you know that got accepted?
The ivies reject “perfect candidates” because there are too many “perfect applicants”. There are a finite number of seats. (“perfect” meaning well-qualified, not necessarily perfect stats)
What low SAT, terrible GPA, etc, students have you seen that were accepted to ivies??? Can you post some links??
@Frigidcold @mom2collegekids Its on CC actually. I don’t have the link, but its called “Harvard 2019” or something
@Frigidcold @mom2collegekids
For example, one Harvard student on that post said they didn’t have or send a single SAT 2 subject test score. Harvard specifically said they want 2-3 subject test scores. How could you get in if you didn’t follow their requirements and take subject tests?
@catlover2000 Well, I found one case of this. There is a reason though. They submitted their ACT score!
Perhaps the Ivy schools don’t feel they have much to offer these perfect people.
The ACT doesn’t substitute for the SAT subject tests.
Didn’t Harvard drop the SAT Subject test requirement this year? Maybe the student had a strong application without the subject tests. The website says “normally” they want 2-3 subject tests. but then says the admissions office will evaluate applicants without subject tests.
Students with perfect stats might get rejected from Ivy league schools but if you apply to an appropriate mix of safety, target and reach schools it is highly unlikely you won’t be admitted somewhere. When you hear about students with strong stats not getting into any college, and this does happen, it’s because they did not apply to an appropriate mix of schools. The “perfect” applicant is 2400/36, 4.0 unweighted, curriculum with rigor, deep involvement and leadership in several ECs and well written essays. I’ve never heard of a student like this getting shut out. Another terribly important consideration is applying ED
@bouders For some schools, you don’t have to send SAT subject tests if you send your ACT score. For instance, I know that UPenn and Duke have this policy. Not sure about Harvard though, haven’t looked into it because I don’t plan on applying there.
" passion for community service, and just overall good character "
I wonder what your criteria for assuming this is true of these “perfect candidates” and why you think your judgement of that might be better than the people who actually got to read their applications, interview them, etc…
@NickFlynn That’s exactly why I asked the question… so people could help me understand how the university system works
http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ovae/pi/hs/hsfacts.html Source.
So, that means there are at least 37,100 valedictorians each year in the U.S., if not more because of co-valedictorans, etc. (I am using vals because most should have at least some of the qualities you listed.) Assume half of those apply to Harvard, which may or may not be an accurate estimate. So that’s about 18,550 val applicants. The size of the admitted class was 2,048 (https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/admissions-statistics). Do the math. 18,550 is MUCH greater than 2,048. There’s no way every student with
can be admitted. It’s just not possible unless Harvard became the size of University of Oklahoma, and even that probably wouldn’t do it.
Edit: And that’s not even taking into account the home schooled applicants, which do make a small dent here and there.
@catlover2000 Sorry, I didn’t mean my comment to sound as harsh as it probably did.
It seems like every poster on CC assures us that their essays are “excellent” and the same with recommendations, etc, etc…how reliable is that, really?
In a similar vein, long lists of ECs are not really evidence of great character or true commitment to helping others - they can be, but they also can be just evidence that an applicant or their parents are aware that they are expected and have tried to “check that box”…
More importantly, truly elite institutions get tons of academically qualified candidates and get the opportunity to fish through them to find exactly what they want - people who they think will really add something to their campus, beyond just being good students.
@NickFlynn nah its fine. Well I can’t speak for every applicant, but I have a close friend who’s a senior. She has excellent test scores and really outstanding ECs. Her strongest point is definitely her community service. She’s really passionate about helping people. I know for certain that she doesn’t do it to pad up her college resume. She ended with over 1000 volunteer hours. She got rejected by all Ivys, but I think shes going to a great UC school. 
I think the main point to keep in mind is that 2400s and 36s and all the rest aren’t all they are cracked up to be, nor should they be. The Ivies and the other elite schools want high test scores, because they want proof an applicant can handle the workload, but beyond clearing whatever they define as the minimum standard, they are looking for other qualities. This isn’t what people with super high test scores want to hear, but it’s clearly the case.
Just purely in terms of academic prowess or brainpower or whatever you want to call it, there’s really not a lot of difference between the 2250 SAT scorer and the 2350 scorer…and these schools know it. Give anyone the choice between a kid with great character, strong work ethic, and a 2200 SAT and some unmotivated rando with a 2400, and you know who is getting picked 9 times out 10.
@NickFlynn ya that makes sense. Thx for the thoughtful response
Harvard requires at least 2 SAT subject tests unless the applicant cannot afford taking them, in which case they are exempt. While it is true that many universities accept the ACT in lieu of the SAT subject tests, Harvard is not one of them. The four Ivies that accept the ACT in lieu of the subject tests are Brown, Columbia, Penn and Yale.
The Ivy League admit students with less than stellar academic credentials, but they usually compensate for that in other ways (exceptional hardship, world-class skill/talent in a performance art or sport, very powerful parents/alumni etc…). However, even in such cases, the applicant is still expected to maintain high academic standards.
@Alexandre OK thank you for the explanation. I don’t understand the huge fuss about alumnis/legacies. I mean they might not be as stellar as their parents…