<p>*Most don’t. I’d say that for most majors its best to know what your going to be majoring in by the beg of your 2nd year. *</p>
<p>If you arent majoring in anything that has to do with the sciences/math you may get away with not taking prereqs for your major, freshman year, but many students, including my own D who * knew* she wanted to major in the sciences, she just didnt take enough of her pre-reqs freshman year, will have to take another year to finish all the requirements, since they need to be taken in sequence. ( some also are not typically offered at a CC)</p>
<p>This can be an advantage to starting at a CC, because the extra year at CC before transfer is cheaper than doing the “catch up” after transfer at the four year school, taking an extra year there.</p>
<p>Re: #39 and #40</p>
<h1>40 is correct in that a very large percentage of CC students are not intending to transfer to a four year school, but are taking courses for other goals (e.g. associates degree, vocational education certificate, or personal interest).</h1>
<p>True, if applying as a transfer student isn’t detrimental.
Also my daughter who now is planning on a grad degree in another scientific field tells me some of the pre reqs she needs aren’t available at the CC.
I am sure it depends on the CC though.</p>
<p>Okay fine, as I said slice the numbers any way you want, but at least 5,000 kids per year go into MCC with the promise that they will/can transfer to UCLA or USC. Check the actual transfers to those schools to see my point. In MCC’s case it’s 91 to UCLA and 23 to USC in 2010 out of many many thousands. This is the top CC transfer in California. </p>
<p>CC transfer to a top 4-year is slim to zero odds and it’s a lie that is told and retold. Check your own local CC’s transfer rate (and transfer location) to see if I’m wrong.</p>
<p>You really don’t know how many of the students at any given CC are aiming for transfer and how many of those actually do transfer. (UC StatFinder used to have some information of that would help, but it is no longer available.)</p>
<p>My D was told that she was the first person at her CC in HI that they were aware of who applied to and was accepted at US. She said many of her CC classmates were unsure of what they wanted to do. Some were getting certifications, some were taking fun courses, some were HS students getting a head start, some were dually enrolled at CC and flagship U, saving Money because CC credits cost a fraction of U credits. Some do transfer to our flagship or other U. </p>
<p>Some of the CC certification programs are now helping the students also get bachelor’s degrees so their grads will have more career and advancement options</p>
<p>Several CCs have a physical presence on their campus with state universities, to enable a smoother transition to the four yr school. With some programs you dont even ever have to step foot on campus to complete your BA degree. ( or only slightly.)</p>
<p>Wheaty,
Of course most students that come in with the intention of transferring don’t actually end up doing so. That’s more the fault of the student than the CC. If Harvard and Moorepark switched student bodies (assume only MCC students that came with the specific intention of transfering), Harvard’s four year graduation rate would plummet, while MCC’s would skyrocket. Why? Many of the students that go to community college never developed the work ethic necessary to survive in college, nor do they have the academic foundation that will allow them to succeed in college writing or calculus. Is that a fault of the community college or the student? </p>
<p>Harvard, and most other schools with exceptionally high four year graduation rates don’t have to deal with these types of students. They preselect only those who demonstrate both a strong work ethic and strong foundation, and as such almost all of their students graduate on time (doesn’t hurt that those schools are extremely expensive before financial aid which is only available for the first 8 semesters).</p>
<p>Yes you are all correct - we don’t know the exact number of CC students wishing to transfer. We do know exactly how many actually do transfer and that number is tiny. So my CC warning buzzer goes off when I hear people discussing the CC to 4-year path as a legitimate option. Don’t believe me, check the transfer stats of your own local CC.</p>
<p>Whenwen is correct, most HS kids at any CC are there because they never learned correct academic habits in HS but they all come in thinking they will magically make it to their dream 4-year school. Of course it’s easy to predict that their CC performance will most likely mirror their HS performance but nobody wants to hear that.</p>
<p>And this leads me to the original post in this thread and the sentiment of ‘why not take the CC route’. My answer is that the CC route is an illusion that is sold to kids that have either not tried in HS or had a poor application season. So to answer the OP’s question, one reason to take the gap year is because the CC route is a fairytale (complete with a happy ending!) that is almost certain to end in disappointment.</p>
<p>If you make your same anti-CC argument on high schools, you will see that only a small percentage gets into Berkeley, UCLA, USC, etc. from high school (overall, not specially picked elite high schools that are unavailable for most). So, by your anti-CC argument, why should students bother in high school, since aspirations of going to a “good college” are “almost certain to end in disappointment”?</p>
<p>
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<p>By this argument, the high stats student who applied to an all-reach application list and got shut out should then be able to do well in CC and transfer to a good four year school. Of course, the student who made a 2.0 GPA in high school has a much lower chance of success doing the CC route, but such students won’t have many four year school choices even after retrying after a gap year.</p>
In one thread, I advised a statistically perfect student to take a gap year so that he could reapply to four years that would give him a full ride. The vast majority of students aren’t like that student though. Many students that were shut out have good stats (3.4+ GPA,27+ ACT, 1790+SAT) but not high enough to earn them close to a full ride. For those students that clearly have the potential to succeed in college, but don’t have the funds to afford a four year school, community college makes sense. They’re likely to do well enough to transfer, unlike the student with a high school GPA of a 2.3. </p>
<p>For the former student, a CC is a very good deal. He’ll probably do quite well, and transfer after 1.5-3 years (depending on AP credits/availibility of courses). The latter probably won’t be able to transfer, but at least he’ll get to try college at a fraction of the price of a four year school.</p>
<p>Btw, my CC offers high school graduates with a HS UC GPA of 3.8+ (UC GPA excludes fluff classes like PE and cooking) priority enrollment. That means they’re likely to get every class they need in two years for less than 3,000 a year. For these students, a gap year would be a waste of time. </p>
<p>
Does anyone have a list or know of any states for which this situation is applicable? I’m from California so I take it for granted the community colleges serve as ways to continue education, learn new skills, and offer a cheap transfer route to the state’s four year institutions, but I guess this isn’t the case everywhere.</p>
<p>My youngest attended an inner city school and I was a parent volunteer that assisted students who wanted to attend college but didn’t have family that could or would help them research their choices. In several cases their family not only needed their income, but needed them to assist in child care as well. When you are a first gen student, not everyones family is supportive of you wanting to go to college. Even my own in-laws were far from understanding and thought we were setting our kids up for failure. :rolleyes: ( & that we were too big for our britches)</p>
<p>These kids didn’t have all their required classes for college application, because they did not realize until junior or senior year of high school that they wanted to attend college, so they needed a place like a CC where they could fulfill those requirements.</p>
<p>Some were very motivated, but I admit that continuing to live at home & fulfilling their families expectations was a distraction to their ultimate goal of going off to college.
Still, sometimes it was necessary to have that time to get their family and friends used to the idea, so that they eventually could be more supportive.</p>
<p>These students are often first gen & low income/ minority, just the students that colleges want to attract more of. By taking coursework at the CC with what can be very strong profs, students are able to show that they can handle college level work and so can be more proven entity than students coming right out of high school.</p>
<p>Its true 4 yr colleges have fewer transfer slots than freshmen, and less merit aid as well, but for high performing low income students, a college that meets 100% of need can offer very attractive packages. We were lowish income, but not FRL and our PROFILE EFC was = to FAFSA EFC.</p>
<p>There are, but many community colleges have open admissions, and I wonder how much that affects the rigor of the courses they offer. I am unlikely to send my children to community colleges after high school but would consider dual enrollment during high school. How does a parent or student research a community college? The New York Times rarely writes about them (except for ones in NYC), and college guidebooks say little about them. I know more about 4-year schools across the country than about the community colleges near my town.</p>
<p>You should be able to look at what programs they offer.
How many sections of rigorous courses do they offer?
How many classes of OChem?
Do they have profs listed for those sections,or is it ( to be determined/ we are waiting to see if anyone registers for it before we hire someone?).</p>
<p>The community college I attend for my vocational program has won national awards & grants. This type of thing should be listed under news or media on their website.</p>