<p>^^correct, sevmom. According to ipeds data, UVa is 6% international. (It was 5% a couple of years ago, but really could be no change due to rounding/reporting.)</p>
<p>bc: besides fafsa, UVa requires a bunch of other wealth-type data, which is required to be reported separately. (Not too dissimilar to what is asked by Profile.) Thus, UVa’s definition of ‘need’, may include a lot more assets than does fafsa-only school.</p>
<p>bluebayou, Do Michigan and UNC require this additional wealth type data or just UVa?</p>
<p>So about 20% of UVa’s out of state students are international and therefore are ineligible for aid.</p>
<p>And that leaves about 80% of OOS who are eligible for need based aid at UVa.</p>
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<p>Well, I get 18% for UVA, 17% for Michigan, and 15% for UNC-Chapel Hill. That would go partway toward explaining why the percentage of OOS students at these three schools is so much lower than the percentage of the student body getting need-based aid at elite privates that give FA to internationals.</p>
<p>But it doesn’t explain why that figure is so much lower at UVA than at Michigan and UNC-Chapel Hill. Especially because Michigan doesn’t even meet 100% of need for OOS.</p>
<p>Maybe the percentage of wealthy OOS students that actually choose to enroll at UVa after acceptance is higher than at Michigan and UNC. UVa does have a somewhat preppy,wealthy vibe. Maybe the threshold for need is higher at UVa.But who knows. If anybody gets to the botom of it,I hope they’ll let us know!</p>
<p>It also is geographic. Many of UVa’s out of state students come from the NY metro area, DC and the Maryland suburbs, which have much higher average household incomes than many areas closer to Michigan. (They also have much higher costs of living and state tax rates, which drives complaints about most financial aid not taking into account those factors).</p>
<p>That is a good point, charlieschm,about geographic factors. And NC has Virginia as one of the states next to it and most Virginia families would be more interested in the Virginia schools.</p>
<p>bluebayou, Do Michigan and UNC require this additional wealth type data or just UVa?</p>
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<p>UM requires Profile.</p>
<p>I know quite a few local students with great ACT scores who went to schools other than UM, particularly because of merit aid. If you can get a full ride to CMU, WSU, or OU and your family would have to borrow heavily for UM, it can make sense to choose the “lesser” school. Even so, at least in my area … the top students almost all apply to UM even if they don’t plan to actually go. It’s just what they do.</p>
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<p>The % of the Mich and MSU classes with high stats doesn’t really support the hypothesis that “most of the in-state kids with high stats end up at Mich or MSU”. It just says that what they get is top-notch, not that all the top-notchers go there. What’s the raw # of Michigan students who have high stats? In other words, the 2,900 + 1,100 is off a base of how many in-state Mich kids with high stats?</p>
<p>kelsmom, Thanks. I looked at the Common Data Set for UNC and it looks like they use Profile as well.
In this economy, it does seem like more kids are following the merit money.</p>
<p>If a Michigan student is interested in a huge uni they would apply to Michigan (or state depending a familiar loyalties.) Some kids have zero desire to go to a big school…neither of my first 2 applied to UofM, they went/are at colleges that are 2500 size colleges. #3 will apply to UofM…he is thinking about about a big school. My parents made me apply but I was only willing to appy to the res college and ultimately I went to an LAC so I do understand that some kids, regardless of how wonderful State of UofM are…simply don’t want a big school. Big 10 schools are HUGE. I laugh when I think about kids that think 15,000 is big. Being a freshman on North Campus (where most freshman end up) is like being on a totally different college campus. The finaid at the Ivy’s can be appetizing…one student in each of my sons’ high school graduating class ‘took the money’ and went to Harvard with it’s generous finaid. That student probably would have gotten good aid at Michigan but when the choice is Michigan or Harvard it’s hard to say no to Harvard. Our school also has a “biggish” endowed scholarship to Amherst that one top student generally takes advantage of. So yes, even people in Michigan chase the money or choose a small college. But in general I would say it is extremely fair to say that “most of the high stats kids attend UofM or Michigan state” and most kids do apply even if in their heart they are dreaming of Hope or K or some other school. And you do lose students to Chicago, Northwestern, ND every year. Out of the 20 senior scholars the breakdown is similar to what was posted earlier. 5-6 go to Michigan, 3-4 go to State and the other half are spread out over the local uni, Michigan Tech, a directional or two, in-state LACs and the rest of the country. But pretty much all of those kids applied to UofM. So yes, in-state yield might be higher than OSS but it’s not 100%. Even though UofM meets “need” it’s defined by the Profile and it’s difficult for patently middle class families to stomach $25,000 with an escalating tuition based on what year you are when some nice school is dangling merit money or exceptional finaid in front of your exceptional student.</p>
<p>Exactly, momofthreeboys, The Virginia schools are now also over $20000 for instate expenses and merit aid can start looking pretty good to a family that is not wealthy! My older son is lucky he started school before the recession (and before I found CC). Otherwise, he may have ended up at Alabama with one of their full tuition deals!I’m kind of kidding but it would have been tempting. No offense to Alabama (seems like a great opportunity) but son loved UVa- but full pay for 2 kids to Virginia schools has certainly added up.</p>
<p>Do you live in the Detroit area? People from the 'burbs around Detroit sometimes forget just how huge the state is (geographically…largest state east of the Mississippi). There are lots and lots of high schools away from the bigger cities, and the pattern you mention isn’t even close to being true. Your school’s “5-6 to U of M, and 3-4 to MSU” isn’t and COULDN’T be typical, and neither is your one-to-Harvard-one-to-Amherst anecdote. I have no doubt what you say is true of where you live, but you can’t extrapolate that to the scores of small towns away from the few metropolitan areas in the state. Also, I think you and BClintok are underestimating how many really bright kids, who could have gotten accepted at UofM and MSU, end up at community colleges for their first 2 years. I teach at 2 community colleges near Detroit, and there are plenty of students in my classes who could go just about anywhere they wanted.</p>
<p>No I’m not in the Detroit area. Perhaps our school is not typical, but I find the thought that our district is unusual difficult to believe because we have friends in several neighboring school districts and they see the same things. Perhaps the Detroit metro area is different because they are so close in proximity to UofM? It’s a trek for us to drive to Ann Arbor. We are a small USNWR school and typically our senior scholars don’t go to CC, but some B/B- students go. I think we’re about 87% heading to college of some sort. I think people underestimate how Hope, Kalamazoo, Calvin, Michigan Tech, and other colleges in-state in addition to the out of state mentions siphon off students that are competitive for UofM and match Michigan State. Pharmacy kids might choose Ferris for instance. Michigan Tech and Kettering are top notch engineering schools. We have a plethora of choices in Michigan. The total numbers may be “smallish” but they are still kids that would have been competitive for the Big schools.</p>
<p>I know I tend to forget about the area outside the metro Detroit area. 
Yes, it is certainly different for Mount Morris, Vanderbilt, or Cassopolis than it is for Bloomfield Hills. At my D’s graduation, they announced which school each of the 180 grads would attend. UM, UM, UM, UM, UM, UM, Duke, UM, UM, UM, MSU, UM, UM, UM, UM … you get the picture. At my S’s senior night, they did a slide show that included where each student would attend school (not all 500+ responded, but most did). This time, there were more OU’s, MSU’s, CMU’s, WMU’s thrown in … but still SO MANY UM’s. We tend to “assume” it’s the same all over, when clearly it is not.</p>
<p>My friend also teaches at a local CC, and she also has plenty of kids who could go anywhere they want. It costs a whole lot less to do a couple years at a CC first. We have also seen quite a few students in our area return from stay-away schools to go to CC (or OU or WMU) due to financial reasons.</p>
<p>(My S went to Ferris freshman year - thought he wanted pharm! The merit aid was awesome. He transferred, though, when he decided against pharm)</p>
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<p>Michigan also gets a very large fraction of its OOS students from NY-NJ. That’s been true for decades, dating really back to the 1920s and 1930s when Michigan was one of the few top schools that didn’t have a quota on Jewish students. I’d say NY-NJ is probably the biggest source of OOS students at Michigan, though Chicago also contributes quite a few–but the Chicagoans are also mostly from pretty affluent families. Most of the nearby states have pretty good public universities of their own. So I’m about skeptical about that as much of an explanatory factor here.</p>
<p>That is interesting historical information, bclintonk. Do you have an hypothesis about this? I mean about your question about the different percentages.</p>
<p>I’ve always wondered about it (NY and NJ popularity), even back in my sibs days there were lots of kids from that area. At the info session we attended the rep asked how many kids were from NY and out of maybe 100 of us on a cold fall day there were 5 that had traveled to Michigan to visit and UofM runs info sessions practically every day so this was a fairly random info session. One from Connecticut that we sat next to, I smiled because they bailed to catch a plane before the tour moved to North Campus.</p>
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<p>According to the ACT state profile report for Michigan, exactly 6,004 Michigan HS seniors in 2011 scored 30 or better on the ACT. So if all the 30+ ACT-scorers at Michigan and Michigan State were in-state, they would represent roughly 2/3 of all the 30+ ACT-scorers in the state.</p>
<p>Of course, some of those 30+ ACT-scorers will be OOS students, especially at Michigan (Michigan State is only 9% OOS). But a lot of the OOS kids at Michigan are from NY, NJ, and other SAT-dominant states, so many of them won’t even submit ACT scores.</p>
<p>I stand by my claim.</p>