Giving admission preferences to certain groups is a separate issue from holistic admissions. There’re colleges that practice holistic admissions but give no or few preferences. Holistic admissions increase admission opacity and uncertainty for nearly everyone, while admission preferences reduce admission opacity and uncertainty, but only for certain groups.
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Back to the original article, our kids were pretty cynical about the “character” attribute some elites claim to seek, particularly after the school drug dealer was admitted to HYPSM. He didn’t sell to kids under 12, so I suppose that was some standard, at least.
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It has everything to do with colleges using nebulous admissions criteria so that they could and can and still do deny admission to certain groups, and give preferential admission to other groups. It was a policy that began in antisemitism and the fear that Jews were out-competing Christians, and continues to this day to be used to deny admission to high-achieving Asians in proportion to their level of achievement.
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I asked one person that via PM and at least in that case, they had filed the paperwork as a 501c3.
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Because the schools have made URM/POC/FGLI recruitment the foundation of their mission statements and marketing materials. If they were funding new administrative officers, FA initiatives and programs in connection with recruiting, supporting and retaining athletes then those applicants would be at the forefront of the discussion.
Personally I think they should be as well. Athletics is very expensive and brings in very little money as a general rule. Excepting of course football and basketball at certain institutions (although most of those aren’t relevant to this thread).
Its mental health problems among the young brought on by their own parents. So whose fault is that? Parents who foster the Top-X (5, 10, 20 or whatever artibtrary number of schools you think matter) or bust mentality or who send their kids to schools or living in communities where that mentality is cultivated shouldn’t complain about the effects of that. Parental choices have consequences.
And if metal health problems resulting from the Top-X or bust myth are a concern, I would suggest staying away from this site. Myth is cultivated by some here and the commonality of it is incredibly overstated here.
Also is good if you can help your kid develop some perspective. If you do that, you assuredly will be able to find examples of kids with mental health issues that make “I couldn’t live up to mommy and daddy’s expectations of Top X or bust” look amazingly petty.
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This is gross mischaracterization of the lawsuit data. Harvard has a “personal qualities” rating. I the lawsuit sample, the portion of non-ALDC applicants from different races who received a high 1-2 rating in personal is below. Note that there was only a 1% difference between the rate of URMs and Asian applicants who received a high personal rating. See https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w26316/w26316.pdf for more stats:
White – 21% of applicants and 84% of admits received high personal rating
Black – 19% of applicants and 74% of admits received high personal rating
Hispanic – 19% of applicants and 78% of admits received high personal rating
Asian – 18% of applicants and 73% of admits received high personal rating
The 2023 reader guidelines define the ratings as follows:
Personal
The Personal rating should be an assessment made by the readers of what kind of effect the student might have on others at Harvard and beyond. It should be based on an assessment of what kind of positive effect this person might have throughout his or her life based on what we have seen so far in the student’s application materials. This should include such considerations as what kind of contribution would the person make to the dining hall conversation, to study groups, and to society as a whole after graduation. In assigning the personal rating, readers should consider information we receive from teachers, counselors, applicants, other recommenders, interviewers, and others as well as the applicant’s essays, extracurricular activities, and other items in the application file—what the applicant shows us about him or herself and what the applicant has done or accomplished for others. It is important to keep in mind that characteristics not always synonymous with extroversion are similarly valued. Applicants who seem to be particularly reflective, insightful and/or dedicated should receive higher personal ratings as well. As noted above, though, an applicant’s race or ethnicity should not be considered in assigning the personal rating.
- Truly outstanding qualities of character; student may display enormous courage in the face of seemingly insurmountable obstacles in life. Student may demonstrate a singular ability to lead or inspire those around them. Student may exhibit extraordinary concern or compassion for others. Student receives unqualified and unwavering support from their recommenders.
- Very strong qualities of character; student may demonstrate strong leadership. Student may exhibit a level of maturity beyond their years. Student may exhibit uncommon genuineness, selflessness or humility in their dealings with others. Students may possess strong resiliency. Student receives very strong support from their recommenders.
3+ Above average qualities of character; Student may demonstrate leadership. Student may exhibit commitment, good judgment, and positive citizenship. Student may exercise a spirit and camaraderie with peers. Student receives positive support from their recommenders.- Generally positive, perhaps somewhat neutral qualities of character
- Questionable or worrisome qualities of character
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So in reality there was a negligible difference in the % of Asian applicants receiving a high personal qualities rating when compared to Black or Hispanic applicants. All 3 gruops were less likely than whites to get the highest personal qualities rating (and even then the difference was small).
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It isn’t my kids, @saillakeerie-mine already attended their top choice colleges and have done fine. But I don’t think all the blame for the stress necessarily rests with the parents, and it isn’t the kid’s fault what the community stress level is like.
Telling people not to worry about it is like telling them not to worry about the cost of college-after all, most Americans will attend some type of community college, and most live with an easy distance to a free or nominal cost community college. And many such grads go on to fine careers. So there are plenty of affordable options, just not necessarily options those kids or their parents want, and thus they stress over the cost, which at least is semi-transparent. Admissions is quite opaque, intentionally so, prompting many kids to jump thru numerous hoops in an attempt to cover all bases of what a college may want.
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And therein lies the problem, they want different options because they believe those will ensure greater success. It’s a myth routinely propagated here, born out nowhere in the scientific literature (with the slight exception for first generation, low income students) and easily shown to be false based on anecdote. For example, a significant minority of Fortune 500 CEOs come from “T-20” schools. Nearly all of the NASA site directors went to random state schools. The Ivy grads I know that are my age have pedestrian careers. The ones my son’s age are unemployed or seriously underemployed. The golden ticket is a tragic fallacy that has infested far too many in this country, especially on this forum. I could go on, but we’re drifting off topic.
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It might help if elite colleges themselves did not sell the Golden ticket myth quite so hard
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It’s in their financial best interest to do so, even though their admissions office directors routinely shoot the myth down in person.
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Its tough to convince people who buy into the Top X or bust myth. Again, no sympathy at all. Other than I suppose they have lousy parents. But there are a lot of those out there.
And its interesting that you dismiss the cost of college issue (which is much more common than the Top x or bust myth) – just go to a free school – but we are to have sympathy for the Top X or bust myth kids. Totally backwards and pretty arrogant. But alas, par for the course here for many.
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Every business sells myths such as that. Its what they call advertising. And yes, a lot of people fall for that. I guess we need a lot more support groups.
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I wasn’t dismissing the cost of college problem, just pointing out the parallels to your dismissal of the elite college admissions chase. We both know that other options, in both cost and admissions, are available to most people, but that does not negate the fact that many people do indeed stress over both, or at least one, of these issues, and they are not “bad parents” for doing so.
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For better or (mostly) worse, subject matter standardized tests like the SAT subject tests were the non-default college admissions tests, so they declined in use over the years compared to the default college admissions tests (SAT and ACT), despite being more predictive of college performance.
Most US colleges select primarily on the basis of GPA and/or class rank. It is only the relatively small number of most selective colleges where other factors become prominent, due to a surplus of applicants close to the ceiling of typical high school records (and SAT or ACT scores when they were used).
Part of that is population based.
| University | Number of Undergraduates | Population of Nation | Ratio |
|---|---|---|---|
| Harvard University (College) | 6,755 | ~328,000,000 | 1 in 48,566 |
| University of Toronto | 72,785 | ~38,000,000 | 1 in 522 |
| Oxford University | 11,955 | ~68,000,000 | 1 in 5,687 |
The other thing to note is that the most desired universities in many other countries are public, so their motivations regarding composition of the class (e.g. relating to what are called “hooks” in the US, or other non-academic non-capacity-related factors) may differ from the private universities that make up most of the most desired universities in the US.
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Top-X or bust is a myth. Not being able to afford college is real. Drawing a parallel between someone who could go to a 4 year college (maybe even a top 50 or top 100 school) but cannot afford it being happy with their local community college (many of which are very weak) and someone not making it into a Top 5, 10 or 20 school and having go to a top 30 or 50 school doesn’t make any sense in reality. Other than for those people who buy into the elite or bust myth. And if you do (and you bring mental anguish upon your kid as a result) I view you as a bad parent. And given that is a choice and often not being able to afford college isn’t, I don’t see them as being in the same universe.
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I’d think that’s the exception rather than the rule. It probably also means the student is being sponsored but a rich parent as it is very expensive to file the documents for the 501c3, (and takes some time to get it approved) and expensive to file the taxes for it. My brother has a 501c3 and also has a tax accountant and a bookkeeper.
It’s easy to have a business that doesn’t make money, but more difficult to have one that makes money and then gives it away.
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Yes filing a 501c3 is saduous and expensive. I am not sure how these young people can claim they started a “non=profit” without doing that eprl though. Otherwise it is a volunteer role. You are probably right that they are claiming this without doing the paperwork.
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Here’s the report from the NYT from 3 years ago.
No matter how you spin it, it’s very clear that the “holistic” criteria were being applied in a manner so as to boost the scores of non-Asians vs Asians.
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