<p>Right, but how do you know what's "right"? (I've told you how I define it, but you're asking me about non-Christians -- correct me if I'm wrong -- and I have no idea how non-Christians define "right.")</p>
<p>I'm just asking.</p>
<p>Roxxy is making a really good point about ethics.</p>
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You see an old lady drop a 20 on the floor. Do you pick it up && return? or just keep it knowing its not yours.
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<p>The ethical thing to do would obviously be to pick it up and return it, but why? Someone without a foundation for their ethical beliefs would be hard-pressed to prove why what they consider to be ethical is actually ethical.</p>
<p>Ah, thank you!</p>
<p>I was trying to make the point about the definition of the word (and probably not doing a very good job), but at least someone got it! Haha.</p>
<p>So Authentic, yeah, it's wrong to force a religion upon someone else. However, parents are here to mold their children into good members of society, and a faithful Christian wouldn't be able to do this without trying to hand their religious beliefs to their child. There's a difference between giving a child a little nudge in the right direction (the right direction according to the parent) and forcing a child to comply with someone elses religious beliefs.</p>
<p>Well, I've enjoyed the debate, but seeing as how no one's answering my question on the definition of "ethical" for non-Christians and the fact that it's getting late (:P), I'll be off to bed!</p>
<p>Night, all.</p>
<p>ok roxxy, when you wake up I hope you read this</p>
<p>The art of knowing whats right to me is basically knowing whats wrong. Geniality to be short. In your mind the 20 is not yours. If you have been raised being taught not to steal, then you know that not giving the old lady back the 20 is wrong. That will be considered unethical. Even if someone is ignorant to whats ethics, they should know whats right from wrong.</p>
<p>Ethics is also doing things for the sole sake of it being the right thing to do, not anticipating a rewards or recognition. If you gave the old lady the 20 back expecting half of it for actually giving it back wouldn't be considered ethical although you did the right thing....get what I mean?</p>
<p>I'm not sure if I'm answering your question but let me know if you got the gist</p>
<p>Good night</p>
<p>If you all are the type of people I will meet in college, I look forward to it. Whether we agree or disagree, it is nice to discuss things with people that think logically rather than those that have a one-track mind and have already figured it all out :rolleyes:</p>
<p>thats cool brand_182, Unfortunately I'm looking forward to going to Columbia. But Wes is on my college list though ;)</p>
<p>Question 1:
Alright. Check it. You are all smart, capable beings and deserve a better answer than "i can feel that he exists." (sorry, no offense to those who solely base their theory of God on wether they have "good luck"). </p>
<p>First of all, I want to say that proving the existance of God is futile since he transcends all dimensions of reality. We have no capability to concieve of Him. I will explain a little later. Most of my religious knowledge is about monothiesm, so I am sorry that I cannot cater to the Buddhist/Hindu faiths.</p>
<p>Anyway, since you are all smart and capable, lets take science, which is the main tool used in opposition of religion, to try to reach religious faith. </p>
<p>We are 3 dimensional creatures (spatially), thus are created with three dimensional neurons and can only understand in three spatial dimensions. For example, say we created many many complex programs to move a 2 dimensional shape, and the programs worked together with very primitive tasks to "think." This "lifeform" (the amalgamation of the many programs) could see a point (0 dimension), a line (one dimension), and another shape (two dimensions). This lifeform can put all of its energy into understanding the point, the line, and the other shapes. It can even try to reason on its creator. It would say, "well, He must look like a circle, because circles are the most perfect shapes." Or maybe even, "He is probably orange, because orange is such a rare color here [in our programs]. He may even be translucent!" That is the extent to their knowledge. They have NO IDEA OR UNDERSTANDING that its creator, us, is acutally an extra dimension larger (three dimensions). </p>
<p>Now, lets assume that String Theory and M theory, two well known and widely accepted theories, are true. Look them up and you will be a believer. These theories say that we live in a universe of ELEVEN DIMENSIONS. If we say that a being, God, created us and exists in these other dimensions, we could have no understanding of Him. Sure, we could ponder and waste our time, but we will never get a solid answer. The closest we can get to Him is through Abstract mathematics, and even that would be controversial, because there is no way to prove that the math is correct. I personally believe that God is above all dimensions and time because he created the dimensions and time. Therefore, we REALLY have no understanding of Him, or heaven for that matter.</p>
<p>That was arguement 1. If you are still reading, then I commend you because I know this can get boring after a while. </p>
<p>Now, lets say that we were created because of the Big Bang, two branes crashing into eachother to create matter. How can there be God if we matter was created by the Big Bang? well, then one must ask oneself, how did the big bang occur? God. God created the Big Bang, creating matter, later creating earth from that matter, later creating single cell "organisms" out of CLAY and WATER (the Bible and Quran state that God created man out of clay and water. later in the 1950s, scientists found that a very primitive cell can simply occur out of a drop of water, RNA, protiens, and an electrical shock. the RNA can be created from imprints made in clay, like a mold). These single celled organisms evolved into primitive man through natural selection. God blew the soul into man 40 years after he created Man's body (Quran), which some assume was the primitive monkey like form man was in after evolution. Man then created civilization, and the rest was history. We cannot ask... well, if God created the universe, who created God? you must remember, God is greater than the universe itself, so we cannot possibly relate God to our primitive human procreation. </p>
<p>I have so much more to say but i realize that this is already pretty long. If you are really interested in the science behind religion, check out Islam. It has no contradictions. It is not a simple, terrorist, backwardly eastern religion. It truly pertains to today's science. For example, Islam (the Quran was written in the 600s) predicted that there are seven levels of heaven and each with a specific purpose that keeps us alive. Within the last one hundred years, we have found that there are in fact 7 levels of the atmosphere and each have very specialized functions, such as diverting gamma rays. There are many more miracles of the Quran. If you are truly interested you must read them yourself. </p>
<p>Most of what I said about evolution is NOT part of fundamental Islam, so do NOT take those words to represent Islam. Take from this what you will, but the underlying truth is that we cannot understand God with our limited logic, so we must trust what his prophets have told us. We may either believe or not believe, and no one will prove the other wrong or right. Just make sure you dont wait until its too late to believe.</p>
<p>Question 2:
Why do I not believe in other faiths. I was/am a disolusioned catholic. I was told every year in sunday school that Jesus saved us and that he is God. but then the holy spirit is God too. but then the father/creator is God too. three parts of the same God? I thought to myself, "humans are so limited. why would God be human? Also, why did Jesus cry on the cross for God to save him if he was God?" None of this made sense to me. So I looked around at Buddhism, Hinduism, other sects of Christianity, and then I found Islam. EVERYTHING MAKES SENSE. In christianity, jesus/God somehow DIED. In Islam, the prophet Jesus didnt even die! Im not trying to make converts out of nonbelievers, but these little patches of confusion in other faiths brought me upon the Beauty of Islam. </p>
<p>PS- If you have specific questions or arguements as to why you are skepitical of God, please ask. I am very passionate on this subject and would be more than glad to have a rational arguement. I have one question for these people though... why do you continue to live if there is no hope of living forever? or, similarly, why do you continue to live if the end result will simply be ashes?</p>
<p>God does not exist in the classical definition, thus we have no right to prove that he is the creator based on existance. (after i posted i saw that like two pages went by. haha) and dont make this a certain religion bashing post. lets steer clear of that. : )</p>
<p>and alamode, to answer your question on why people try to prove others wrong or right is simply because in their minds, they are saving those certain people from "damnation." Its actually funny if we step back, because two hard headed people will say that the other is damned and they each try to convert eachother.</p>
<p>No, no certainly not. No bashing of any religion here :)</p>
<p>I haven't given up following everyone's great comments. But I have to sleep. I will think about these issues and hopefully respond sometime soon. Keep them coming!</p>
<p>Before that however, let me add my two cents. roxxy, you bring up a good point regarding absolute truth vs. relative truth. Obviously, Islam and Christianity can't both be right. Nor can Buddhism be right with the former two be right as well. (Then again, consider quantum mechanics...or not...that opens a whole can of worms...)</p>
<p>Anyway, either one of our current religions is correct or none of them are. They can't all be right. Unless someone wants to try to unite them into a super-religion....like 'a religion of everything...' JKJK.</p>
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But Wes is on my college list though
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<p>Ha! Keep it on there if you like this discussion. I'm sure these are the norm there.</p>
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Anyway, either one of our current religions is correct or none of them are. They can't all be right. Unless someone wants to try to unite them into a super-religion....like 'a religion of everything...' JKJK.
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<p>On the contrary, it has been thought that the similarities that exist within old world religions (look it up and you will how many there are) all stem from some common religion in the beginning and that, over time, nuances and shifts in stories created what he have today. Perhaps the story of the Tower of Babel isn't a fairy tale after all. ;)</p>
<p>wow. its midnight on a saturday night and im posting on CC about religion. i think i need to get a job or something. maybe a life.</p>
<p>sorry ive posted so much, but Brand, thats what Islam says! muhahaha</p>
<p>You don't need religion or any gods to tell you what is right or wrong...if you murder someone you will feel guilty because you have ended someone's life...well most people would...what happens if one never learned of religion/god? are they going to go around murdering everyone? NO...you don't need religion to be a moral human being...and you are taught right and wrong when you are very young from experiences and some of it is personal intuition...it is a shame that some people think they need some invisible figure hovering over them in order to make ethical choices...and conflicts in religion have caused much of the violence in the world</p>
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sorry ive posted so much, but Brand, thats what Islam says! muhahaha
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<p>HAHA and Islam is also perhaps the youngest of the world's greatest religions. I'm sorry, but I think that merit comes with age.</p>
<p>word. athiests can be moral people. most are. you dont need God to tell you whats right or wrong if you already understand logical morals. chamilitary, you are absolutely right in the sense that one does not need organized religion to be a moral person, but in the minds of monothiests, religion is NECESSARY to be granted a pleasant afterlife. so one can be as moral as one would like, but in the end, thats not all that matters, according to monothiestic religion. </p>
<p>conflicts in religion are caused by rash people, not by religion itself unless it was trying to protect itself from imminent destruction. one cannot blame religion for the problems of this world. many people just follow the leader. Al Jazeera says bomb the israelites, israelites say bomb the palestinians. and we say, tisk tisk arab states, you should really get along, or else we will have to start bombing too. western civilization created this madness after WWII! I am really trying hard not be a cynical, hollering monothiest, but its relatively hard when someone is blaming religion for "much of the violence in this world."</p>
<p>what about the crusades?</p>
<p>well, brand. hahha. i keep saying im not trying to convert anyone, but the words keep coming out. Muslims believe that Islam is synonomous to the Absolute Truth. therefore, Muslims believe that this "religion" (I put it in quotes because calling the Absolute Truth religion is pretty much demoting it in our connotation of the word) really started when God created Adam. So, by one's belief system, it may be the youngest of the Big World Five in text, but it may be the oldest in actual faith.</p>
<p>About the crusades. who says they were right? the Quran says that killing an innocent person is like killing all of mankind. again, religion is diluted by the minds and pride of men. we should not take away from pure religion merely because their "leaders" at the time chose to make wrong mistakes. </p>
<p>And as a little subnote: Do you guys know what Einstein, Euler, Gandhi, Da Vinci, Goethe, and Shakespeare all have in common? They were all some of the greatest minds civilization has ever had the pleasure of knowing, and they were all DEVOUT theists in their own respects. If you dont know who Euler is (not to insult anyones intelegence), he basically created a fourth of all of the amazing math we know today, about 300 years ago.</p>