Why do you want to go to an Ivy League university instead of a state university?

<p>"So yeah, speaking from experience? Yes."</p>

<p>I was just referring to the fact that you - a person with a job, published author, winner of many awards in the past - would suddenly spend so much of your time trying to teach a bunch of high school and college students about the grim reality of life. Through all of your posts, I couldn't help but detect a hint of bitterness in your writing. I won't try to guess why that is, since you might get offended, but I also can't take your point of view very seriously when you obviously have a lot of emotions connected with the subject. Plus, of course, the very fact that you are trying to enlighten us about our "bubble" existence, as if we were living in isolation from all adults but you and you were doing us a favor, is quite insulting. I (and probably many of the other posters) live with two parents, have an older brother who just recently entered the workforce, and communicate with many other friends and relatives. I have also spoken to numerous Harvard graduates in their 40s and 50s. First of all, those who have graduated from Harvard praised their education, and some particularly mentioned the intellectual stimulation they have gotten during their college years. They are all no less accomplished (and some probably more) than you. So why should I believe your grim version of reality more than theirs? Second of all, my parents, neither of whom graduated from Harvard, currently hold jobs in which they rarely come in contact with people who are not extremely intelligent. Yes, they communicate with what you called "normal" people outside of their jobs, but they get to work in an environment that is intellectually stimulating. And I'd like to learn in that same kind of environment.</p>

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Jman - rebut this: Ivy League school's have an international reputation superior to a public institutions reputation.

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<p>I won't rebut that. They are old institutions and "brand" name schools. Almost everyone has heard of Harvard. Their reputation does not come from their quality of education so much as it does from the quality of the student body.</p>

<p>Students make schools. Schools don't make students.</p>

<p>
[quote]
It's obviously a personal preference. I enjoy having top students for classmates for the following reasons:</p>

<pre><code>* more stimulating discussions both in and after class
* professors teach material at a higher level than they would be able to if students were not as capable (especially true in my major)
* drives me to succeed
</code></pre>

<p>I enjoy being around students who are active in EC's because it is likely that whatever EC's I participate in will have other participants who are equally dedicated. This helps make the club or organization successful.

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<p>In my opinion, you don't necessarily have to be an overachiever to take part in a "stimulating" classroom discussion. If you ask me, stimulating discussions are a result of diversity in viewpoints of the students, and you can find such diversity regardless of the achievements of the students.</p>

<p>Students who are intellectual and want to learn can seek a higher level of learning without a professor. The teacher can't appeal to all of the students' learning levels, even at ivies. There will always be students that struggle (and can get outside help) and students that yearn for more (and can also get outside help).</p>

<p>The last point is dependent on the individual. For me, the students I am around have little effect on how much I strive to succeed. I have an inner source that drives me. Some people aren't like that, and I completely understand. If being around overachievers makes you want to succeed even more, then go to an ivy.</p>

<p>In the end, it is really all subjective. One cannot objectively state that an ivy league school is better than a state university. Better is entirely subjective unless you define it. Go to the school where you feel you belong, and you can't go wrong. Don't pick one based on brand name. That's my best advice. :)</p>

<p>I agree with you that it really comes down to what the individual is looking to get out of an education. For me, and I suspect many others, the qualities I listed make an Ivy League education very desirable. I'm sure there are others who are looking for something different, and that's completely understandable. In regards to your point about diversity stimulating classroom discussion, it's worth noting (as someone already did) that Ivies typically have the edge here because they are drawing from students around the country rather than from a single state.</p>

<p>Some of the comments on this thread are a bit snooty and aren't represenative of the attitudes of most of the Ivy League students. The actual reason to choose an Ivy League over a state school is because you have a much different peer group. You meet people from all walks of life, economic backgrounds and countries. They are all intelligent and unique and will inevitably become successful. This potential for networking and existing alumni networks make ivy league educations more desireable. As the director of the UNC Scholars Program said, "This is a state school after all." That sums up the distinction between Ivy and "normal." Additonally, Ivy schools tend to attract the best professors and have a plethora of social and academic traditions which are attractive to a lot of people.</p>

<p>Now, barring all of that, a student who wants to succeed will succeed, at any institution, Ivy just gets you around more people who are capable of doing so.</p>

<p>"In my opinion, you don't necessarily have to be an overachiever to take part in a "stimulating" classroom discussion. If you ask me, stimulating discussions are a result of diversity in viewpoints of the students, and you can find such diversity regardless of the achievements of the students."</p>

<p>I completely agree with this point. I actually prefer to be in a more mixed environment in my discussion-based classes (history, english, spanish). One of the reasons why I chose Harvard was because a teacher who had immense influence on me once told a class about his experiences as an undergraduate. He is extremely intelligent, probably more so than the majority of high school teachers. I don't remember what school he went to - it was a LAC, but not one of the top-tier ones - and he was one of the top students there. He told us about how <em>bored</em> he was during most of the lectures, which moved at a pace too slow to challenge him. And I have experience with this myself, having taken non-honors math and science classes in the past. You can't stretch your mind, develop yourself, and ultimately achieve to the best of your potential when the teacher is forced to slow the pace for students who need it. It isn't that these students are stupid, or that their point of view is stupid, or that I dislike or scorn them. By no means. I just feel that being in a <em>lecture</em> with them would slow down my own learning. And this is exactly what I didn't want to face at a college. </p>

<p>Plus, of course, Harvard will cost me $22,000 less than my state school.</p>

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Some of the comments on this thread are a bit snooty and aren't represenative of the attitudes of most of the Ivy League students.

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</p>

<p>Glad someone said it.</p>

<p>You, Sir, share the name of an awesome, underrated film!</p>

<p>I think it's a mistake to assume that students at an Ivy are necessarily any more intelligent or driven than students at state schools. I know brilliant, funny, engaging kids at our state university, and boring, arrogant kids at Ivies. Academic achievement and intelligence aren't measured by the SAT or even by GPA, necessarily.</p>

<p>Yes, Ivy League students have worked hard, and are usually extremely intelligent and capable. But so are kids at universities everywhere. Plenty of successful, accomplished professionals had inauspicious beginnings. I'd like to second Jman2306's comment: students make the school.</p>

<p>I chose Harvard because of its French department. Of the schools I was accepted to, it was the most financially reasonable school with a good French program.</p>

<p>oh, and....to the OP;</p>

<p>....because I... wanna be a balla. Shot calla.... 20-inch blades on th---ok I'll stop now lmao</p>

<p>
[quote]
You, Sir, share the name of an awesome, underrated film!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I know! Nobody gives it a chance, but I liked it so much that I have it on my iPod.</p>

<p>Anything Jack Black touches with his Midas Hand of Comedy turns to cinematic gold.</p>

<p>One word: Streich</p>

<p>
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grad school and professional school is the only place where learning actually matters. Not undergrad

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<p>That philosophy for undergrad is depressing and untrue. Pre-professionalism, in many ways, sucks. Preparing for careers and embracing learning are NOT mutually exclusive.</p>

<p>People go to an Ivy school because they want to become investment bankers. Wait, they can't do that anymore. Sucks for them. I guess this is what happens when you become greedy. </p>

<p>They think they can go to Yale, study history and then work in finance. What do they know about finance when they graduate? Nothing. But, they are trained in the job. So, can people who graduate from a state school be trained. Yes, but they don't have connections that one can get from an Ivy league school. </p>

<p>Ivy league is a state of mind. It's an athletic conference that has gained it's reputation.</p>

<p>Well, for me it's a number of reasons.</p>

<p>My entire life, I've felt out of place, like the odd girl out. In fourth grade I was always the girl who would sit in the back of class reading "the secret garden" although the school libarian had labelled it suitable only for 6th-8th graders. I was always the one who got the highest grades although I didn't put in as much effort as I thought I should. By 8th grade, I was fed up of being the girl who eats alone in the cafteria. Slowly, my grades went down, and stayed down. I stopped visiting the libary and eventually, I even started to make friends my own age. For the following four years, I hardly read any books. I spent fridays watching movies or organizing sleepover parties. My intrest in books was relpaced by my intrest in M, one of the most good-looking guys in our grade. I spent too much time figuring out what I can do to make people like me. I obssesed over materialistic things that don't really matter and I made sure I knew every single trend out there. Sometime after my sixteenth birthday the dreadful truth hit me. I'd spent so much time trying to make people like me, But do I like myself? Who am I anyway? Am I happy with the way my life is going?
For the next few months, I felt lost. I realized my life had no direction, no purpose. I pretty much had no reason to live...unless if I were to spend the rest of my life gossiping or prankcalling. I told my mom how I felt and she advised me to turn to god. After around 9 months of soulsearching, I acknowledged that the last time I was ever truly happy was 4 or 5 years earlier, back when -as a child- It was enough to please myself rather than please others.
Soon enough, I started proritizing. I took 4 APs and 4 AS's in the same year, all of which I scored As (or 5s) at. Taking a rigoros courseload made me feel good about myself. The material was quite intresting, (except for AS maths- I suck at pre-calculus!!!) which encouraged me to work hard and excell. My classmates were all very serious and hardworking indiviuals, most of them were also quite intellectual. Those were the people I felt I was able to get along well with. I felt that I could actually have a deep, meaningful conversation with such people, without being critisized for using a 'big' word or not wearing that Bersheka skirt the right way. I was also quite suprised by the quality of teachers that were appointed to tutor AP/ AS subjects as opposed to those that taught mandatory material.
I also started to get heavily involved in student life. I started a school-affliated organization called the Creativity Campaigain, whcih encouraged students to to get involved in school activities (asides from sports, because in my school sport are the only actvities that are "cool" anyway). We worked with kids in 2nd grade onwards, organizing diffrent events and competitions- from wrting to gymnastics- we did it all. We also published a 40 page monthly newsletter in which we posted pictures of people who have excelled at diffrent activites. When it came to writing, poetry and art we would publish the actual material with the name of student who did it written next to it. I tried not to include the same 2 or 3 people from each grade ever month. As a matter of fact, I completely avoided it. I tried to write the names of everyone who had gotten involved or had done something somewhat meanigful contributing to the student life community. By the end of the year, I noticed a change in the mentality of many students when it came to extracurricular involvment, especially among the students in the younger grades (the fickle ones!). Teachers constantly used the "Creativity newsletter" excuse when it came to encouraging the students to do their homework. It has been constantly reported to me that numerous teachers have said this line to their students:
"If you do well on your essay, I will get Yasmin in grade 12 to publish it in the creativity newsletter,"
Maybe the reason that line always works is because I always do just that?
By the end of the year, the CN was 120 pages fat. My school director got a call from the regional director asking her if I can attend a regional seminar along with the Head prefects of all the other afflaited schools in the region . I was very suprised at the invitation since I had never been a prefect-let alone a head prefect- in my school. However; I attended anyway. There I found out that I was expected to outline CN, it's purpose and how I carried it out inorder for the other head prefects to carry out the same thing at their schools. At the end of the seminar, the regional director shook hands with me, and told me that he thought the CD/N was one of the most inventive ideas he'd ever heard of.</p>

<p>WOAH...I think I've gotten way off-topic here.
Anyway, I think you get the idea that I was alot happier with my life in the second half of the story. In order to stay happy, I belive that I need to be surrounded by competitive, intellectual indiviuals- like those I took the AP classes with. When I'm surrounded by people like that, I feel the urge to excel. It gives me some sort of motivation, I guess. Being taught by worldclass, noble/ pulitzer/ whatever-other-prize-there-is-out-there winners, would also add to the experince. In addtion, I'd get a pretty good paycheck for the rest of my life- not that I'm doing this for the money or the prestige of course.
I doubt I'd ever get accepted to Harvard or something, my grade 10 and 11 grades are wayy too low, although I am considering attending that optional year 13.
I dont get how anyone could possibly even think of comparing a typical state-school education to an Ivyleague one.</p>

<p>Why do I have a feeling noone's going to read this post?</p>

<p>"Why do I have a feeling noone's going to read this post?"</p>

<p>Because there are no spaces between your lines and no paragraphs.</p>

<p>@ OP
For the interview, I would first go to Harvard's website or go through a viewbook and see what you actually like about the university. If the reasons you want to go are prestige, name, rankings, etc. you might want to reconsider, or at least not mention those when you are getting interviewed.</p>

<p>As far as this whole debate goes, some have said that Ivies provide more guidance, opportunity, diversity, intellectualism, learning, etc. than state schools. In my opinion, you can find much of this at public schools just as well and find just as good students.</p>

<p>In general I think people have it wrong. You shouldn't see this as a "which is better than the rest" but rather "which fits me best". The best for you is not the best for everyone else. There is no best University.</p>

<p>Of course there some Universities with vastly different tiers of resources than others, but seriously, if more people actually took the time to find a good match rather than sycophantically follow the prestige, this would be a better world.</p>

<p>Because it's probably a cut and paste of your personal statement?</p>

<p>^Anyone with half a brain in their head would send in something far more sophisticated than that as their personal statemnt to HYPS or watever.</p>

<p>I just started thinking: why do I really want an ivy league university? why do I wake up every morning, cope with all this stress then sleep, wake up the next day and do it all over again?</p>

<p>The words just poured out of me.</p>

<p>Anyway, everyone has their own story. Everyone wants to go to an ivy league university for a diffrent reason. (unless if they're only in it for the prestige factor).</p>

<p>I'm sorry if it bothers anyone that my post was too long. But if I were in your shoes, rather than critizing someone else, I would think about my own reasons to consider attending an ivy league university.-even if I attended writing a crappy essay of what looked like a personal stament with "no spaces between the lines and no paragraphs."</p>

<p>Ever since 7th grade I have never dreamed of anything else than to go to an Ivy. Why? So I can tell people that I did it. That I worked my ass off to get where I am today. Of course I have my other reasons, the connections, the relations to grad schools, the prestige, the professors, as well as numerous other factors. Plus I'd be surrounded by others who understand how stressful taking a thousand and one extra advanced classes can be, as well as juggling volunteer work, and other extracurriculars, plus the little social life I have left.</p>