<p>Actually, Ivies don’t exactly meet your “full” need. For one, you have to pay for the student insurance in US, which is about $3k. And they’ll include like $3k of work study that your parents will have to pay the rest if you don’t work continuously (min 10h/wk) during the school year (which is really hard to do). Your parents are also bound to pay some amount proportional to their income even if they make like under 40k a year. </p>
<p>And unfortunately, Cornell stopped doing this need-based thing for Canadians this year.</p>
<p>^ The worst students will likely be worse than the worst in an American university, but the top students in a Canadian university will be identical to the top students in an American university.</p>
<p>I’ve lived all over so I know what I am talking about when I compare Canadian students to their counterparts in England and America. Students at McGill, Queen’s, Western and other ‘top’ Canadian schools are so unimpressive that you almost feel sorry for them. They lack passion and, most importantly, ambition. They’re like the kids at UMichigan or Warwick. Definitely not Ivy/Oxbridge caliber.</p>
<p>Well, it’s pretty clear that the average student at UfT for example will not be anything like the average student at a HYP-type school. That is just because our admission process isn’t as intensive, doesn’t have standardized test scores, and it just isn’t as competitive (plus, UfT admits a lot of students…way more than a HYP-type school). But, I would think that the top students at UfT would be on par with top ones at HYP…maybe that’s just my opinion.</p>
<p>I think the thing about American admission process is that it drives students to develop themselves in more ways than one…where as schools like UofT only looks for marks, so Canadian students only focus on marks. Of course the really good people will always be good…Canadian or American.</p>
<p>Of course Canadian universities cannot compare to HYPSM, the governments in Canada would not allow it. Private universities are all but illegal and there is a mindset among many Canadians that university education should be free. </p>
<p>I feel that access to healthcare is a basic human right but free access to a BA in Art History or a BCom in Investment Banking is not. </p>
<p>Until about 1960, McGill was a private university. At first, they welcomed government funding until they were required to spend down their unrestricted endowment. Most of the buildings built at McGill in the 1960’s were financed by draining the endowment. </p>
<p>Also, except at say the top 25 or so American schools, if you have good marks/test scores, a lack of EC’s won’t keep you out.</p>
<p>@PrincetonDreams: Cannot agree more with you!! </p>
<p>So many of seniors at my school, who did disgustingly poorly in grades 10 and 11, made top Canadian universities. (I took grade 11 n grade 12 courses during grade 10, so I know.) All they had to do was to get decent scores on a few, I mean, a very few courses! How can they even be compared with the people who study thier butt off all through high school while doing verious ECs? Their brain capacity cannot measure up, either, I suppose.</p>
<p>I do think that at the very top of high-ranking CDN univs are ‘some’ IVY caliber students like people on this site, but the rest are like - I cannot even say the word. I sincerly hope and pray that I do not have to attend the same univ with them. I know a guy who had to go to U of T, even though he made Duke, JHU, and Columbia. He told me, “Until I reached junior year at U of T, I had entirely hated the school. Once every dummy either dropped out or transferred, it got better.”</p>
<p>Yeah… only about 6 grade 12 courses matter and all you need is 91-92+ average… Well it does make it easier to apply but of course that results in worse people being accepted.</p>
<p>^ @tom, the posters here DO NOT loathe themselves as you had expressed and were quoted. </p>
<p>@alwaysamom: On what basis do you say that the posters here are ‘mostly uninformed’? Additionally, how mature of you to ridicule PrincetonDreams -a ‘very young poster’ in your own words - without providing any sound grounds! Do you know no shame, MOM?! </p>
<p>@peachaso: He did not get enough money, unfortunately.</p>
<p>While I agree that the quality of top US schools is likely higher than that of top Canadian schools (however you want to measure it), I think it is a mistake to say the same of <em>students</em> at top Canadian schools. As someone pointed out earlier, the US has a culture of “pushing” their high school students, always having their “eye on the prize” - at least to a greater extent than in Canada. So when Canadians go to University, it might be true that they have less “accomplishments” than their US counterparts. Intellectual curiosity, however, is something that cannot be ingrained in a student in my opinion. Regardless of location, I think that there will always be students who strive to learn more and do great things. Perhaps these students are allocated more opportunities at top US schools. I don’t really know. But just because Canadian students may display less drive than US students, they are not inferior. They have simply grown up in a different academic culture. And while some may call it being a “slacker”, maybe they are happier.</p>
<p>@ alwaysamom and tomofboston: I am sorry if I offended anyone with my post. I didn’t mean, in any way, to say that Canadian students are ‘stupid’. I just wanted to point out that the quality of the average student at a top Canadian university is similar to that of an average student at for example, the University of Michigan.</p>
<p>@ prjiki: Thanks for backing me up! Out of all the Canadian students I’ve met so far, very few seem to possess any passion for what they want to do. Some want to be doctors for the money, others architects for the “coolness” associated with the profession. And these are the students who are on ‘Chancellor’s/Full-tuition’ scholarships! Whereas, the kids that I met from elite schools in the U.S. were awesome! One guy I met wanted to go into architecture because he had a vision for sustainable living that would help the world combat global warming for centuries. Another wanted to study finance not for the top Wall Street (basically Bay St in Canada) jobs but because he wanted to modernize the financial system of his country of origin to help it grow at a faster rate. Basically, these were kids who were smart, had a great work ethic and were very ambitious and passionate about their futures. Ambition and passion, unfortunately, are not very apparent in post-secondary schools in Canada.</p>
<p>P.S: English is like my fourth language so I really don’t write very effectively and sometimes what I plan to convey as sarcastic or neutral comes off as offensive. I apologize again if I offended anyone here.</p>
<p>As someone who has taught may years at an Ivy, a state school and now a Canadian public for the past ten years, I think the kids on here are sadly misinformed. They have absolutely no idea what they are talking about with regards to the student bodies or the education they would receive in either country. With just a handful of exceptions, the huge cost differential does not at all make sense for Canadians to pay US tuition prices. You are simply NOT getting a sufficiently better product to make it worth your while; ofttimes the product is far worse. </p>
<p>I do have more variance among my students at the Canadian public but I would say a huge number are <em>easily</em> on par with my students at the Ivy. Hands down. Highschool education is generally better in Canada I now believe. Standardized world scores seem to suggest that is the case, and its aligned with my own observations of Canadian and American students. Sure Canadian kids don’t cram for the SAT for years or collect scores and courses, strategizing their path, and acquiring titles on their resume for college apps, but such superficial coaching, gaming, and instrumentality tells you zip about the actual intellectualism and motivation of Canadian students. In fact I would argue that this focus on the college app for some many years takes away from real learning, risk taking, and exploration needed for real development. </p>
<p>I know so many Canadian kids who got a great and wonderful undergraduate education in Canada, saved about $150,000 doing so, and had zero problem working in the US, or going to US graduate school (with full funding in their respective fields). In particular, I can honestly state that every single one of my undergrads who was interested in graduate study in the US has gotten into a great school with a full scholarship, and they have done very well compared to their peers. Canadian kids in highschool have NO IDEA that professors at American schools (who select students for their PhD programs) hold Canadian a lot of Canadian universities in very high regard. Likewise, look at the colleges attended by those doing graduate professional degrees in law or medicine at top US schools: you will see quite a few from Canadian unis. </p>
<p>But sigh, my cry seems to fall on deaf ears. The power of popular culture, magazines, and big budget college advertising, combined with pressure from parents of certain backgrounds that put huge weight on brand names and aquiriing social status through their children, and well, these forces outscream the facts.</p>
<p>Starbright, you have some great points there! I guess other than 3 or 4 schools…there really is no point discussing the students’ capabilities in each country…</p>
<p>LOL @ starbright blasting off a few more long-winded paragraphs without considering actual facts.</p>
<p>You’re an idiot. You have yet to acknowledge the fact that generous financial aid negates that mythical $150K figure you keep BSing about. No one in their right mind would pick a Canadian school over a superior American one if the cost is equal.</p>
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