Why Does Cornell CHOOSE to be Least Selective?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cornell University
81

<p>Brown's pretty elitest. You go to the hockey games there and nobody is wearing any hockey jerseys! They dress up as if they are going out in NYC.</p>

<p>When Ezra founded his university, everybody wanted him to place the main academic buildings on the knoll where his mansion now stands. He refused. They then thought the West Campus shelf would be more appropriate. He refused. The only area of his farm large enough for the number of students he intended to instruct was at the top of East Hill, with the rolling countryside stretching all the way to Mount Pleasant.</p>

<p>I don't think you fully comprehend how difficult it would be to lower enrollment by 2,000. That's over $50 MM in tuition money! Which college would be willing to give up their funding and professors for the benefit of having 5 less students per class?</p>

82

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If the question is --should cornell choose to admit less, despite having adequate resources, in order to boost selectivity-- just, no.

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<p>No! not to boost selectivity. They should admit less to be able to spend more on each student.</p>

83

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If the question is-- is Cornell stretching its financial/other resources too thin by admitting too many students?-- idk how we can know this better than the admissions people/whoever's in charge of this.

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<p>Cornell has always been known for "doing more with less". This is partially why Biddy was tapped at Wisconsin and Randel before her was tapped at Chicago.</p>

<p>Only in higher education would you be chastised for offering the best quality product at the lowest price to the most number of students.</p>

84

<p>What, specifically, would you like to see Cornell spend more on for each student, Brown man? A nicer basketball arena? More books in the library? Newer dorms?</p>

<p>And how do you propose Cornell do that while decreasing its revenues by $50M at the same time?</p>

85

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I don't think you fully comprehend how difficult it would be to lower enrollment by 2,000. That's over $50 MM in tuition money! Which college would be willing to give up their funding and professors for the benefit of having 5 less students per class?

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<p>Cayuga, </p>

<p>I don't think you comprehend what I said before. It costs Cornell WAYYYYY more than what students pay for tuition. While cost of attendance may be 50,000, it costs Cornell much more than this to educate a student. So say they receive 50M in tuition money from admitting an extra 2000 students. They don't make 50M- they lose 50M because it would cost about 100M to put all these students through Cornell (Tuition minus Cost to Cornell = 50M-100M=-50M) . The average cost to Cornell of each student is way, way, way higher than 50,000. Thus your point that "they are losing tuition money" is moot. They will lose even more money if they admit more students. </p>

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Which college would be willing to give up their funding and professors for the benefit of having 5 less students per class?

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<p>Colleges don't have to give up anything!!! Cornell loses money on tuition. I repeat, Cornell loses money on tuition. I repeat, Cornell does not make money from tuition. The cost to Cornell of educating a student is FAARRRRR greater than $50,000. We're not just talking about having 5 less students per class. We are talking about financial aid here so that we can attract the brightest and the most talented students without regards to whether or not they can afford Cornell.</p>

86

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And how do you propose Cornell do that while decreasing its revenues by $50M at the same time?

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<p>This doesn't matter! Cornell loses money on every student it educates. The monetary cost of a student to Cornell is greater than the tuition that students pay.Tuition does not serve to make money for Cornell.</p>

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What, specifically, would you like to see Cornell spend more on for each student, Brown man? A nicer basketball arena? More books in the library? Newer dorms?

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<p>Some of us actually have to struggle to make a Cornell education possible Cayuga. We were not as fortunate to be able to pay full tuition like yourself Cayuga(I assume you paid full tuition because you seem entirely unsympathetic to many students' financial aid woes here).</p>

87

<p>No. It is you who are incorrect. Please understand the concepts of fixed costs and economies of scale. Then understand the difference between marginal cost and average cost. I'm not going to lecture economics 101 to you, but you can get back to me at your own lesiure.</p>

<p>I'll even give you a great place to start:</p>

<p>Amazon.com:</a> Tuition Rising: Why College Costs So Much, With a new preface: Ronald G. Ehrenberg: Books</p>

88

<p>For the record, I was a Tradition Fellow at Cornell. I received $4k in grants every year, and also graduated with $20k in loans. My family made a lot of sacrifices to put me through Cornell, but we also always lived well within our means. If you cannot afford Cornell, then the choice is simple -- don't attend or transfer in after a year or two at a community college. Nobody is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to attend Cornell over one of the UCs or UT-Austin or Madison or SUNY Geneseo.</p>

<p>I have donated $250 every year to undergraduate scholarships at Cornell since graduating. I also donate to Athletics and some minor student organizations.</p>

89

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No. It is you who are incorrect. Please understand the the concepts of fixed costs and economies of scale. Then understand the difference between marginal cost and average cost. I'm not going to lecture economics 101 to you, but you can get back to me at your own lesiure.

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<p>I specifically read that Cornell loses money on every student it educates. I will find this and get back to you. This was straight from Cornell itself. You don't need to lecture me in economics.</p>

90

<p>That's presumptuous of you, and probably entirely false, Brown man.</p>

<p>While it may be a financial woe for you for the next four years, and most likely some after that, you are in no way not getting your money's worth.</p>

<p>Cornell offers a huge amount of resources, non financial wise, to any and every student who chooses to look for it. </p>

<p>When weighing the pros and cons of either making some people's pockets hurt less, versus offering an amazing education to people who normally wouldn't have the opportunity to do so, I think one stands out as the clear winner.</p>

<p>I am hurting financial wise because of Cornell's policies on financial aid as well, but I would view it as entirely selfish if I wanted to have 2,000 less people get an education at such a fine institution, so I wouldn't have to pinch pennies.</p>

91

<p>The average cost of providing a Cornell education is indeed less than the cost of tuition. But this does not mean Cornell "loses money" on every student it educates. (How could it? It's a not for profit with a balanced budget?) </p>

<p>Cornell very much needs it tuition revenue to persist. And any decline in student enrollment would result in lower tuition revenue, and something would have to be cut -- faculty and staff, most likely, but perhaps financial aid.</p>

92

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That's presumptuous of you, and probably entirely false, Brown man.

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<p>How is that presumptuous of me? I read it somewhere. I will find it and get back to you all tomorrow.</p>

93

<p>No, it was presumptuous of you to presume that Cayuga went through school on a free ride.</p>

94

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When weighing the pros and cons of either making some people's pockets hurt less, versus offering an amazing education to people who normally wouldn't have the opportunity to do so, I think one stands out as the clear winner.

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<p>You guys can talk all you want about egalitarian. The bottom line is that if we don't have an aid program on par with other Ivies, we are going to lose talent and socioeconomic diversity.</p>

95

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No, it was presumptuous of you to presume that Cayuga went through school on a free ride.

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<p>No, I assumed he easily paid full tuition because he seems apathetic about many students' financial aid woes, but now I realize that he had to go through some hardships as well and my assumption was incorrect. Please read carefully before you start making ridiculous accusations.</p>

<p>God, CC is full of a bunch of insecure tools always trying to teach others a lesson.</p>

96

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The bottom line is that if we don't have an aid program on par with other Ivies, we are going to lose talent and socioeconomic diversity.

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<p>I don't disagree. It's a major problem. Especially for an institution that has always been much more socioeconomically diverse than the other Ivies.</p>

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<p>lol so somehow by cutting down on our number of students, and presumably saving more money for a financial aid program, we are going to gain more talent and socioeconomic diversity?</p>

<p>I can tell you that I am a minority, and middle class economically, and I received the same aid package all the way from Columbia, Cornell, CMU, and JHU, to Tufts and University of Florida.</p>

<p>If we are talking about only Ivies as our peers, the Ivy League bars from academic scholarships, and so financial aid for all the ivy league is completely need based. And because of the same standardized financial aid process, that need is the same regardless of the institution. The ONLY difference, then, is loans, and the applicability of outside scholarships. </p>

<p>We cannot intrinsically compete with non-ivy top-tier schools because we cannot "attract talent" (in your words) by offering academic scholarships. </p>

<p>Cornell doesn't have a "fall below this line and you get a free ride" policy because the people at that lower end, regardless of institution, are receiving large amounts of aid as it is. So no Ivy league institution is going to offer a middle class family a free ride, if that is what your ideal is.</p>

<p>All of this is completely absurd.</p>

98

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lol so somehow by cutting down on our number of students, and presumably saving more money for a financial aid program, we are going to gain more talent and socioeconomic diversity?

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<p>I cannot tell you how many students ended up turning down Cornell for other schools because of the lousy aid they were offered. I was almost one of them. </p>

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I can tell you that I am a minority, and middle class economically, and I received the same aid package all the way from Columbia, Cornell, CMU, and JHU, to Tufts and University of Florida.

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<p>I am a middle class minority as well. I received much better packages from Penn and Columbia. I was lucky enough that Cornell matched their offers, because I asked them to. I'm sure plenty of students don't know about this and just assume that Cornell won't give them any more money. </p>

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If we are talking about only Ivies as our peers, the Ivy League bars from academic scholarships, and so financial aid for all the ivy league is completely need based. And because of the same standardized financial aid process, that need is the same regardless of the institution. The ONLY difference, then, is loans, and the applicability of outside scholarships.

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<p>You don't understand my argument at all. Cornell has a worse financial aid program than every Ivy except Brown. Students who are admitted to both Cornell and another Ivy are routinely offered more money at other Ivies. We are going to lose talent and socioeconomic diversity because of this.</p>

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Cornell doesn't have a "fall below this line and you get a free ride" policy because the people at that lower end, regardless of institution, are receiving large amounts of aid as it is. So no Ivy league institution is going to offer a middle class family a free ride, if that is what your ideal is.

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<p>Uhh... when did I say that's my ideal? We should have an FA program at least as good as those of our peer Ivies (not HYP, but at least the rest) to compete for talent and socioeconomic diversity.</p>

99

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<p>Far</a> Above... The Campaign for Cornell | Student Aid FAQs</p>

<p>I cannot find where I read they lose money on each student they educate, which would imply that the marginal cost of educating each student is greater than the tuition that they all pay. I'll look for that some other time, right now I need to go get some sleep.</p>

100

<p>Cornell offers no support for international students, while Harvard, Princeton, Yale and Dartmouth are need-blind for all applicants. Cornell has well over 1000 internationals enrolled, with less than 15 getting aid...how can you attract a diverse student body under these conditions?</p>