<p>This could be related to the "Do normal people get into MIT thread?" but I'm curious about math, specifically. </p>
<p>I looked at the MIT open courseware video of Calculus of a Single Variable, and there were scores of students in a big lecture hall.</p>
<p>I mean, who are these people? Are there that many people who got into MIT who didn't get 5s on AP Calc? Or didn't even take Calc at all?</p>
<p>I wouldn’t be surprised if many people haven’t taken calc, especially if their school doesn’t offer it. Or some may want to repeat it if it’s the basis of their major (aka engineering, math, physics).</p>
<p>Wow, you are living in a world of privilege if you think everyone has AP Calc BC at their high school. MIT admits smart, driven kids - that’s not correlated with being able to take AP Calc BC.</p>
<p>I’ll also say that 18.01 was far more theoretical than AP Calc AB was. (I did get a 5 in AP Calc AB, which means I could’ve gotten placed into 18.01A/18.02A. But that would’ve meant giving up either an IAP or a spring seminar I wanted to take, so I didn’t deem it worth it. In reality, my AP Calc AB 5 probably was not enough to skip 18.01, because my school didn’t teach theory well.)</p>
<p>^ Exactly.</p>
<p>Not everybody attends a comfortable, upper-middle class high school that offers AP Calculus BC or higher-level math, or a middle school that allows you to start taking high school-level math in 7th or 8th grade or even earlier. Some high schools don’t even offer calculus at all (mine didn’t even offer AB until a few years ago, and even now there’s rarely more than 4 or 5 people in the class each year). In fact, I’m almost positive the amount of schools that offer BC Calc are in a clear minority.</p>
<p>Plus, for the percentage of schools that do happen to teach those higher-level math courses … there’s the question of how well can they teach it. For many, I’d imagine the answer is “not very well”.</p>
<p>I took 18.01 during my first semester.</p>
<p>I had taken two quarters of post-secondary college calculus at the local community college in high school, so I had only covered about two-thirds of the 18.01 curriculum, and I was (rightly) concerned that I didn’t know it well enough to do well at MIT.</p>
<p>Also, 18.01 goes at a much faster pace than AP Calculus (1 semester vs. 1 or 2 years for AB/BC).</p>
<p>For example, I got a 5 on AP Physics C - Mechanics (not enough for 8.01 credit 
), but instead of trying to ASE out of 8.01, I decided to take 8.012. In the long run, I think that might’ve been the right idea. There were several topics taught in 8.012 that I never learned in AP Physics.</p>
<p>18.01 at MIT is comparable to what most colleges teach in two semesters - Calc 1 and Calc 2 (or AP Calc AB and BC). And yes, my experience from the midwest is that while most high schools offer some form of calc, very few offer AP Calc BC (instead of only AB or even a non-AP version), which is what is needed to validate 18.01.</p>
<p>Also, it’s worth noting that only something like 15% of MIT’s class takes 18.01. If you look at what math people start in, you can get a distribution that very roughly looks like this</p>
<p>10% get credit for 18.02. I think most of these people start in 18.03 ordinary differential equations or 18.701 algebra I.
10% start in 18.022 the harder version of multivariable
44% start in 18.02 multivariable
20% start in 18.01A which covers 18.01 and 18.02 over fall and January
1% start in 18.014 the very theoretical version of calc I
15% start in 18.01 calc I.</p>
<p>When viewed this way it’s not very surprising that a small percentage of MIT students either have very poor mathematical preparation or are not very good at math.</p>
<p>There’s usually about 0.5-1% of the class that places out of 18.03/18.06 (Differential Equations, Linear Algebra, respectively) via the ASE, as well.</p>
<p>“Calc 1” at MIT is really Calc 1 AND 2. Most of the kids are so advanced at MIT that they essentially teach a difficult version of Calc BC in one semester.
So it’s definitely worth offering.</p>
<p>There’s also some percentage that gets transfer credit for advanced subjects. Unfortunately, they don’t seem to release statistics on that. The math department doesn’t enforce prereqs though and so many/most students who are strong at math start off in 18.701 [I’ve heard there’s around 50 freshmen in 18.701 but I can’t personally confirm the accuracy of those numbers].</p>
<p>Such students make up a substantial amount of math majors but not really a substantial amount of total MIT students so unless you want to major in math this won’t affect you. AFAIK MIT admissions doesn’t weight preparation much more heavily in admitting potential math majors although it probably should.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I disagree very strongly. A preparation in math sufficient to get accepted to MIT in general is more than sufficient to succeed as a math major at MIT. Whatever “preparation” you crammed into high school won’t cover more than a semester-long class or two at MIT, and in much less depth than the corresponding MIT class; you’ll most likely forget about your head start by IAP sophomore year.</p>
<p>Do you really think there are ~50 MIT freshmen who are “strong at math”?</p>
<p>There’s “strong at math” (i.e. AP Calc AB/BC were easy, got 5 no problem, etc.) who start at MIT in 18.02 or (for some students like the USAMO-ers) 18.022.</p>
<p>Then, there’s “strong at math”! These are the ~10-20 students who ASE out of 18.03/18.06 during orientation and start in something like 18.701. The 18.03/18.06 ASE’s usually have a roughly 80-85% pass rate. This represents about 0.6-0.7% of the class.</p>
<p>However, there are usually 75-100 students who ASE out of 18.02 (which has a roughly 75-80% pass rate), which is a pretty substantial chunk.</p>
<p>Keep in mind too that a lot of that is simply the opportunities they had in (or near) their high schools. Our state had dual enrollment, plus there were several colleges nearby, so it was easy for my guys to take Multivariate Calc and Diff Eqns while in high school. Plus they were allowed to take Calc AB as a freshman, etc. Other districts won’t allow students to take any AP’s until junior year, or don’t have the funding or colleges nearby to get some of those classes. I guarantee you that there are students who - not due to their own fault - started as freshmen in 18.02 or 18.03 who are still VERY strong in math but simply hadn’t had the material before arriving at MIT.</p>
<p>^ I’m with Lydia. You do not need to have a strong math background pre-MIT to be a math major. You’re not going to start out in 18.701 as a freshman without an already-strong background, but the firehose will get others up to speed soon enough.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Do you have any idea how good some high school students are at math? As other posters have noted a lot of students take many college math classes in high school. Others do math competitions, or simply self-study material. As an example, I’m FAR from the best freshmen math major and I started with six semesters of math credit (18.01, 18.02, 18.03, 18.100B, 18.700, 18.703). The analysis class I took used the same book as 18.100B and actually covered more chapters [although over 2 semesters]. My algebra class used the same book as 18.701-2 although we skipped some chapters so I only got credit for 18.700 and 18.703. Somehow, I doubt that head start will entirely dissipate by IAP sophomore year…</p>
<p>I think 50 is a reasonable estimate for “strong at math” if we take “strong at math” to mean good at proofs which seems like a reasonable definition. Some posters have mentioned the number who pass out of 18.03/18.06 but it’s important to note that someone who knows proofs well may 18.701 as a freshmen without taking the ASEs for either 18.03 or 18.06 [I know a number of such people].</p>
<p>EDIT: A serious math background isn’t necessary for succeeding as a math major but it helps a LOT.</p>
<p>You remind me of a certain freshman in my dorm who was bragging that his first 18.702 p-set only took him two hours. Hopefully he’s not you. Maybe he is you.</p>
<p>It’s fantastic that you got transfer credit. I can see that you’ve worked very hard, and that you’re well versed in calculus, ordinary differential equations, linear algebra, and real analysis. Give yourself a pat on the back. You deserve it.</p>
<p>That does not, however, guarantee that you’re among the top 50 “strongest” mathematicians in your class at MIT; it especially does not guarantee that you’re among the top 50 analytical thinkers at MIT. Where you stand before finals your first semester also doesn’t tell you much about your chances at “succeeding as a math major,” whatever that means, and whether or not you get good grades in your math classes doesn’t tell you much about whether or not you’ll go on to do world-changing things. There are a lot of truly amazing people here, most of whom haven’t taken the classes you took in high school but many of whom are just as phenomenal in other ways. Don’t push them away. The most important thing I’ve learned at MIT is that there are many, many important things to do, and that almost all of them are more interesting than trying to be the best. Try not to limit yourself, socially or academically, by only striving for the best.</p>
<p>I recently came across this [Rethinking</a> the Math Core](<a href=“http://web.mit.edu/fnl/volume/214/sipser.html]Rethinking”>Rethinking the Math Core) which is perhaps more relevant to the thread than arguing over the importance of background in college math classes. Notably, it appears eliminating 18.01 was at least under consideration.</p>
<p>So it seems like there are at least two definitions for “good at math.” Lots of MIT freshmen have done competitions such as USAMO/IMO, but may not know much advanced mathematics beyond calculus (and therefore, take 18.02/18.022 or the like). Then here are others who don’t have much competition experience but have learned differential equations, linear algebra, real analysis etc.</p>
<p>I know several freshmen taking either 18.03 or 18.06, but only a couple taking Algebra I. Not sure how many freshmen are in Algebra I.</p>
<p>A couple of my son’s friends are taking Algebra I, I think, though they haven’t taken all the GIRs. They are amazing math competition kids who just didn’t take DE and LA during high school for some reason. My son started in 18.100A (do you have to have 18.100 before you take 18.700, btw?) but is getting help as needed from one of those friends. I love the way students (at least my son and his friends/dorm mates) work together. He’s happy to be surrounded by these amazing students for sure.</p>