<p>One of my very ignorant friend said that princeton/ivyleague/stanford etc etc offer the same education as a cheapo, no-name local university, therefore its not worth the money.</p>
<p>Prove him wrong, my fellow Ptonian/Ptonian-hopefuls.</p>
<p>d-mn straight we will!</p>
<p>um, that's the cue for pton adcoms to come sweeping into the room and say "here's your acceptance letter, fair warrior!"</p>
<p>He kinda does have a point though- If you're determined enough you can succeed no matter where you have your education or any education at all. Just look at Bill Gates.</p>
<p>Aren't there lots of threads here that address that issue? Worst case, ask Byerly why Harvard is better than a no name school!</p>
<p>It depends on how you define "better".</p>
<p>Here are two examples from my experience.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>While at Princeton I had tenured professors examining my youthful literary theory ideas as though they were valuable and pointing me toward works written in Classical Greek that they could read when I couldn't (as they knew 7 languages to my 4). It meant I got to have the experience of being a real scholar without having to become one. For the most part at state schools those kinds of professors don't spend that much time with undergrads.</p></li>
<li><p>After I took 4 years out of the workforce to have kids, my Princeton diploma got me consulting jobs just because people rightly or wrongly assumed I was smart.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>"2. After I took 4 years out of the workforce to have kids, my Princeton diploma got me consulting jobs just because people rightly or wrongly assumed I was smart."</p>
<p>That seals the deal, right there.</p>
<p>^ I find it a little disturbing that you consider Alummother's second reason more compelling than her first.</p>
<p>Why is it disurbing? A man's gotta get paid. As much as I hate to say it, the experience of beinga real scholar isn't going to feed you.</p>
<p>Many people who are successful did not attend elite colleges, and many people who attend elite colleges are not successful. But as an old joke says, The race may not always go to the swift, but thats the way to bet. A highly selective college does not guarantee your success, but most of them are very good at giving you the knowledge, skills, abilities, network and name brand recognition that helps increase the odds for that outcome. If you graduate from places like HYP, your resume is likely to get past the initial screening for any job for which you apply for the rest of your life. However, the longer you are out of school the more what you have done since graduation will determine what happens next.</p>
<p>ICargirl: let me guess, you are a philosophy major. Come on now, do you really think Bill Gates got his 40 billion by being a super computer nerd who is super duper passionate about computers that he doesn't do any business?</p>
<p>PDaddy: Yes, exactly. thats why it pwns to go HYPS. Company gets 2 applicants, one from Harvard one from no name university. which is it gonna pick?</p>
<p>English actually, although it wasn't a bad guess. But seriously, as much as I understand practical concerns (I am considering law school, myself), I feel that the most important reason a Princeton education matters is for its quality, not for where it gets you later. Studies have shown that people who get into elite schools and decline them for state schools wind up earning as much money as those who attended. The difference is in what they got over those for years. If someone thinks that is enough of a reward, he should come to Princeton. If not, why bother convincing him to change his mind?</p>
<p>Ive heard of that study but I wonder about it. The smartest, most powerful people in the US are doing everything in their power to get their children admitted to these schools. If this group thought their kids would do just as well going to State U., they would be the ones who would be savvy enough to save themselves the extra $100,000 or so in tuition, not to mention all the other pre-college expenses of trying to get their kids to have the best chance at admission. The fact that people who could have gone to a highly selective school do as well as those who go there is not the same as saying that those who go to a highly selective school would do as well if they hadnt gone there. There is no way to directly test the latter statement, but the actions of Americas elite suggest they dont believe it be the case for their children.</p>
<p>Well Pdaddy you have a point with the second part of your statement but the whole thing with saving money isnt logical if you look at from their point of view. First of all everyone isnt gonna "grow a brain" and switch to State school education, so the rich, well educated parents are going to send their kids to HYP, to not only get an excellent education, but to also let their kids develop connections with the countries future leaders and head hanchos. Truthfully, I think that you can get an excellent education at a state school too, but an Ivy name takes you a lot further in some cases. I cant argue, Princeton has a lot of dedicated professors and lots of resources, but I still feel you attend Princeton more for meeting intellectually stimulating people and making connections for the future (at least on the rich kid's parent's point of view).</p>
<p>I can promise you all I sent my D there not for her future monetary success but for the one day she looks around and realizes that being an intelligent human is cause for joy.</p>
<p>I think that another major advantage of going to HYPS is that you get to meet people who are as bright and as motivated as you. That sets a whole new standard of performance that you keep with you even after college.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you're determined enough you can succeed no matter where you have your education or any education at all. Just look at Bill Gates.
[/quote]
yaaaaa... he kinda went to Harvard</p>
<p>
[quote]
Why is it disurbing? A man's gotta get paid. As much as I hate to say it, the experience of beinga real scholar isn't going to feed you.
[/quote]
You don't need a 100k+ a year consulting job to keep yourself alive</p>
<p>
[quote]
do you really think Bill Gates got his 40 billion by being a super computer nerd who is super duper passionate about computers that he doesn't do any business?
[/quote]
ok 1) that sentence didn't make any sense
2) He dropped out of Harvard to make PONG and pursue a future in software development. If he really wanted that Harvard tag, I think he would have stayed one more year to finish his degree. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Yes, exactly. thats why it pwns to go HYPS. Company gets 2 applicants, one from Harvard one from no name university. which is it gonna pick?
[/quote]
depends on their work experience. The degree will only work to one's favour if the applicants are recent graduates</p>
<p>
[quote]
I can promise you all I sent my D there not for her future monetary success but for the one day she looks around and realizes that being an intelligent human is cause for joy.
[/quote]
And because a consulting job is always handy if she ever feels that an intelligent human isn't the cause for joy! (sorry had to post that)</p>
<p>"He dropped out of Harvard to make PONG and pursue a future in software development. If he really wanted that Harvard tag, I think he would have stayed one more year to finish his degree."</p>
<p>Hmm no. Bill himself said on his site that don't EVER drop a school UNLESS you are faced with an opportunity of a lifetime. I seriously doubt he dropped harvard because he saw making pong as the opportunity of a life time. He didn't drop harvard cause he wanted to pursue a "career". The man saw that he could make a wack of cash by dropping harvard at that point, so he did.</p>
<p>"depends on their work experience. The degree will only work to one's favour if the applicants are recent graduates"</p>
<p>No kidding, smart alex</p>
<p>I will not deny that IvyLeauge degrees tend to get better job offers (although that doesn't apply to me as much, in the area I am looking I'll always be poor, lol), but for the reason I am going, I'll have to agree with ICargirl. I'm going for the type of education and the people I will meet there. </p>
<p>I'm sure everyone is just as tired of me mentioning as I am in dealing with the kids at the state university I'm finishing HS at. The main goal is how little work is required to get the grade. Most could care less about an education. </p>
<p>Yes, you can get a good education if you work at it to explore the course much farther than the level (which is a bit simple) presented, but it's discouraging when no one else cares. The best way for me to learn a subject is to debate it with someone, so I can see points of view I haven't considered. This is not available here.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>He dropped out of Harvard to make PONG and pursue a future in software development. If he really wanted that Harvard tag, I think he would have stayed one more year to finish his degree.<<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>What? Bill Gates did not make PONG. Pong came out of Atari, and several people are credited with developing it. The name I've heard most often in Nolan Bushnell. Bill Gates founded Microsoft, not Atari.</p>
<p>Also, Bill Gates would have had to stay on 3 more years to finish his Harvard degree. He dropped out after only one year.</p>
<p>Sorry, I misread. He worked with Altair</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates</a>
Wikipedia specifically states that he dropped out his third year (I understand this site can be easily editted, but this page is kept pretty secure)</p>
<p>
[quote]
The man saw that he could make a wack of cash by dropping harvard at that point, so he did.
[/quote]
Which again proves the point that he dropped out for something he was passionate for. He didn't need the Harvard name to be successful. Maybe I misunderstood your argument, but by your previous posts, you seem like a fighting proponent for the fact that a degree could "pwn" everything else- including passion.</p>
<p>
[quote]
No kidding, smart alex
[/quote]
Well I answered your question didn't I? BTW it's suppose to be smart alec. Good try though</p>
<p>is it just me, or does dropping out of harvard sound more successful then graduating? i mean not many people drop harvard because their grades are too low (97% grad rate) the only real reason is because they found something better and didnt want to waste their time at harvard. bill gates dropped so he could found one of the largest most powerful countries in the world. it shows they were good enough for harvard level prestige, and that they went beyond small things like school to do something bigger.</p>
<p>btw: paul allen, the 5th (i think) richest guy in the world and microsoft co-founder went to washington state so its not all about the ivy college. (fyi, he the one who invested in that space tour company)</p>