Why does USC admit so many transfer students?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Southern California
1

<p>I am curious why USC admits so many transfer students relative to its peers.</p>

<p>Credit Hawkette in this post: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060804035-post6.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060804035-post6.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<h1>of Transfer Students , % related to entering freshmen , College</h1>

<p>PRIVATE NATIONAL UNIVERSITIES</p>

<p>2071 , 75% , USC
1702 , 36% , NYU
669 , 21% , Cornell
667 , 8% , Penn State
518 , 18% , Georgia Tech
376 , 23% , Georgetown
238 , 12% , Northwestern
231 , 10% , U Penn
219 , 15% , Wash U StL
197 , 16% , U Rochester
178 , 14% , Rensselaer
176 , 9% , Notre Dame
162 , 10% , Vanderbilt
161 , 13% , U Chicago
147 , 19% , Brandeis
136 , 8% , Emory
132 , 11% , Lehigh
126 , 12% , Case Western
123 , 5% , Boston College
104 , 15% , Rice
104 , 8% , Tufts
99 , 8% , J Hopkins
92 , 8% , Wake Forest
90 , 5% , Harvard
78 , 8% , Columbia
72 , 4% , Stanford
59 , 4% , Carnegie Mellon
43 , 4% , Dartmouth
41 , 2% , Duke
33 , 2% , Brown
30 , 2% , Yale
17 , 2% , MIT
11 , 5% , Cal Tech
0 , 0% , Princeton</p>

<p>So why such high numbers?</p>

<p>I first thought it might be profit on added tuition revenue. However, according to University</a> Endowments and Tuition Costs, "undergraduate tuition and fees account for only about 80 percent of the actual total cost of instruction USC must pay." So as high as tuition is, it does not even cover the cost of instruction, facilities, construction, etc. The rest of the money comes from endowment. I read this to mean that USC does not make a profit on tuition.</p>

<p>The only other idea I can think of is an opportunity to increase diversity? But USC is such an outlier than this cannot be the only reason. What about other theories?</p>

2

<p>I could be completely wrong about this, but I think I saw somewhere that our number of admitted transfer students was similar to that of ucla and berkeley. Could it be possible that USC admits so many transfers in order to compete with those two schools?</p>

<p><em>Edit</em> That link makes me think that the high rates for the uc's, is why USC does admit so many.</p>

3

<p>They accept A LOT from community colleges. All the dumb/lazy people in my school (about 1/3) go to Santa Monica College and since this cc is one of the best - if one gets good grades his/her first year they can go to USC the next year.</p>

4

<p>Also many of these people are very wealthy and USC likes that.</p>

5

<p>You need to compare it to some of California Public schools. California has one of the best public schools and here are their numbers.</p>

<p>
[quote]
PUBLIC NATIONAL UNIVERSITIES </p>

<p>6110 , 126% , UC Irvine
5755 , 125% , UC SD
5754 , 140% , UC S Barbara
5367 , 97% , UC Davis
5350 , 111% , UCLA
3096 , 74% , UC Berkeley

[/quote]
</p>

6

<p>Yes, that's true, but in my opinion California publics are different because they have a different mission than private Universities such as USC. They are obligated in a sense to accept a lot of transfers whereas private universities have no such obligation. Reference Stanford, for example, at 4%.</p>

<p>I am thinking that maybe this is part of a strategy of outreach so that more people know about USC across the state. Or maybe USC has a lot of people that transfer out due to high financial costs and they need to replace those students.</p>

7

<p>USC has to compete with excellent public schools(a lot cheaper) who also accept a lot of transfers. And some schools are in better location. I think USC does a pretty good job considering the competition.</p>

8

<p>I would think that the transfer acceptance rate is directly related to the number of students who transfer out. There are only a certain number of slots in each class. They only become available if people leave. I would wonder why so many people transfer out and I'd guess it could be due to cost or that students not from a major city have trouble adjusting to life in LA. I'd be interested to know the answer.</p>

9

<p>I also think the large number of transfer students has to do with some students who are legacy, who did not get in as freshman but who really really want to go to USC. From what I read, USC admission director will have a meeting with these students to help them be successful as transfer applicants.</p>

10

<p>Like the UCs, USC has an articulation agreement with California's community colleges and a commitment to accept qualified transfers. </p>

<p>As for numbers, USC has a 95% retention rate. While they begin with a class of approx 2600 freshmen, each year they award Bachelor's degrees to approx 4100 (in 2005, for example: 4,139) seniors, a number which rincludes the achievement of many successful transfers.</p>

11

<p>USC's articulation agreements are committments to accept community college credit if the transfers are accepted - big difference. Part of the UC school's fundamental mission is to accept transfers from california community colleges. USC, as a private school, isn't under obligation to admit anyone. </p>

<p>The cynical response is that USC admits a lot of transfers so they can reduce the size of the freshman class, so it looks like they're really selective. This is probably a part of it, but nowhere as big as one might think - for one thing, USC has always accepted a lot of transfers.</p>

<p>It also seems to me like transfers aren't necessarily more "risky" in terms of admits (in terms of getting people who can't cut it). Honestly, high school classes (even AP) usually don't prepare well for the kind of instruction that goes on in college, so you see a surprisingly high number of people who did quite well in HS who fall flat in their first year of college. Transferring in people who got ~3.5 at a community college at least ensures some prior success at the college level, even if it's not so rigorous.</p>

<p>Of course, that doesn't change the fact that the transfer "equivalent" courses that USC accepts for courses like Calculus or Writing are ridiculously easier at community colleges.</p>

12

<p>I used to work for the City of Beverly Hills as their Budget Manager. We had an Account Clerk (Hispanic) who had the system figured out cold. There is no way their family could afford (even back then, in the late 80's) to send four daughters to USC. These kids were bright, in more ways than one. Every single one of them started out at CSU Northridge, transferred over to USC in junior year and got that USC diploma. For them, the issue was pure dollars and cents, as it still is for many people. This was one family who successfully navigated the higher ed process to their benefit.</p>

13

<p>From what I read in this discussion thread, transfer students (if they are accepted), save a lot of tuition money by entering USC later. However, given that USC had over 36,000 applicants last year (more than enough to fill the freshmen class many times over), why are there openings for so many transfer students? There is a lot of interest in students who want to come to USC as freshmen, the retention rate is very high, then why doesn't USC expand the freshman class? Perhaps there are so many transfers because there is not enough housing on campus to expand the freshman class. Many transfer students are commuters. Therefore, I wonder if the reason there are so many transfer students is due to limited freshmen housing coupled with older transfer students willing to commute to USC. What do you think?</p>

14

<p>There is a shortage of on campus housing at USC. Many parents are not going to allow their kids to get apartments off campus as freshmen. When you look at the list of colleges with low transfer rates, I wonder if those schools have enough housing on campus for their students for 4 years. And for those schools with low transfer rates and inability to provide on campus housing 4 years, perhaps the off campus housing is significantly cheaper than off campus housing near USC. The more I think about it, I think the root cause of the high transfer rate is due to limited on campus housing along with the ability to fill classroom space with more (transfer) students.</p>

15

<p>One reason is demand. Last year SC had 8305 transfer applications. Of that number 1514 enrolled. Applicants must complete certain courses with a high GPA. I read the average GPA of transfer students who enrolled was 3.8. (This is not confirmed). </p>

<p>Another reason is so many bright students arrive at SC with AP credits. Numbers of these students graduate early, some in three years. These slots can then be filled by
well qualified transfer students.</p>

<p>There are those students who enter college at other universities and discover that institution does not have a major they now wish to pursue. SC has a huge number of majors, about 150. Some of these majors are unique to SC. It is one more reason students wish to transfer.</p>

<p>In the Transfer Student Forum there is a long thread for students who really wish to study at SC. It gives insight into the reasons students have for wanting to be admitted.</p>

16

<p>Hmm, interesting responses, and some that I hadn't thought of. The housing theory is really interesting and does make a lot of sense. Not immediately intuitive but I think it very well might be a big reason why USC accepts so many transfer students. I wonder if this will change after the Master Plan when all of the new housing will be implemented.</p>

<p>Another relevant fact is that even as as recently as 15-20 years ago, USC was a commuter school and not quite as as selective. As a result, they had to accept a lot of transfer students to fill the school. I think the current high numbers are partially as a result of inertia from the admissions policy 15 years ago.</p>

17

<p>
[quote]
Promises Delivered
Undergraduate Education
During the past decade we repeatedly promised excellence in undergraduate education, and we have delivered on that promise. We've used a number of counterintuitive strategies to achieve our goal of excellence in this area. For example, we reduced our target class size by 500 students relative to its historic maximum. This past fall our entering class had average SAT scores of almost 1320 and a 3.95 average grade point; both of these figures represent dramatic increases from the corresponding figures of 10 years ago. Our students now come from the top 10 percent or better of their high school classes. Twenty percent of our freshman class are legacies — children and grandchildren of Trojan alumni.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>USC</a> President - Speeches and Articles - 2002 - Annual Address to the Faculty of USC</p>

18

<p>As a transfer student, I can tell you that for my year (2007) we set the record for the highest GPA from community college --> USC. They historically accept almost anyone with a 3.6 or higher community college GPA, but the average GPA of community college transfers for my year was actually 3.80. They made that very clear during my orientation last year and were extremely proud of our >1,000 person transfer class. </p>

<p>These are all the reasons I can think of among other things that have been pointed out..</p>

<p>*The average age of transfers are older.. We come in, and come out with the goal of getting a full time job offer within 2 years. We are more mature too and I think the average age is 23. I met 8 people at my orientation last year (one guy was 30 and the other was 26) who I still keep in touch with and every one of them including me had great summer internships and a full time offer waiting for us when we graduate this May.</p>

<p>*Transfers have higher overall GPA's compared to incoming freshmen. (This is kind of biased since we DIDN'T have to take writ 140 or any of the other "extra" courses USC mandates for incoming freshmen). This means that we get to jump straight into our upper division courses which are usually curved higher and I guess more passionate in.</p>

<p>*Transfer students DO NOT factor into the undergraduate reports of rankings. I never took SAT's in HS and my HS GPA was a subpar 2.7/4.0. I was able to transfer into USC with a 4.0 with honors from my community college which resulted in me receiving a "full ride" to USC. If you factored the GPA and SAT scores of transfers into the college rankings, we would unfortunately DRAG DOWN USC a lot so this is a way of "inflating" our rankings while letting so many transfers in. At the end of the day, USC is a business so if they can admit transfer students who will come in for only 2 years and graduate and NOT have it change the overall ranking of the school. </p>

<p>Among other things, I feel like the transfer program in CA is really a "hidden gem" and if there are students here who couldn't get in as a freshman, definitely go the transfer route because you are virtually guaranteed a spot. Obviously the people who work really hard out of HS and get rejected might feel that the transfer route is unfair and I totally agree, but this really is a way giving a lot of students like me who slacked off in HS a second chance of attending a very prestigious university. </p>

<p>If using me and my circle of friends as an example, we have been hitting the dean's list every since we transferred here and I wouldn't be surprised if all of us graduated with honors.. (A lot of people on the forum like to look down on transfers for some reason?)</p>

19

<p>To be fair, I've (and probably a lot of others...) come across the occasional transfer who simply wasn't capable - who probably did poorly in high school, went to an "easy" community college, got a GPA high enough to transfer in - and promptly demonstrated why they would never have been admitted as freshmen in the first place.</p>

<p>On the other hand I know of a bunch of transfer students who stayed at USC for their masters degrees as well, whose acceptance would depend almost entirely on their good performance in their upper division classes at USC.</p>

<p>One can argue that transfers get an "easy" in because community college classes are easier...which may be the case, but one can also point out that high school grades are not always simple functions of academic performance - in some ways, they're recognizers of attendance and an ability to "play by the rules"</p>

20

<p>If you want to attend the Cinema school, Annenberg, or Viterbi Engineering, aren't you better off starting as a freshman?</p>