Why does USC admit so many transfer students?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Southern California
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<p>re:For USC to make the leap to the elite level that they aspire to, they will have to provide a lot more housing for undergrads, especially now that they have reached a far more selective level of freshman acceptance /applicant ratio[ 22%]
Looks like that is exactly what USC is planning:</p>

<p>University Park Campus Draft Master Plan
Anticipated Drivers for Campus Growth</p>

<p>The following “drivers” – Academics, Housing, Open Space, Campus Support, Athletics, Administrative Support, and Transportation and Parking – will influence USC’s need for space and facilities in the coming years.</p>

<p>Academics: Teaching and Research</p>

<pre><code>* New and emerging fields of study and technology
* Increased emphasis on multidisciplinary research and study
* Recruitment and retention of world-class faculty and students
* Student Enrollment:
- No planned growth in undergraduate enrollment, other than minor fluctuation (both up and down) from year to year
- Anticipated modest growth in graduate student enrollment
* Modest growth in faculty and staff employment
</code></pre>

<p>Housing</p>

<pre><code>* Guarantee of four years of university-sponsored housing for undergraduates and one year for graduate students, requiring approximately 7,600 new beds
</code></pre>

<p>I am assuming that means they intend to drastically increase the # of freshman admits and decrease the # of transfer students accepted as soon as they have more UG housing built [ but that will admittedly be hard to accomplish]</p>

<p>University</a> Park Master Plan - Draft Master Plan: Anticipated Drivers for Campus Growth</p>

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<p>
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As a transfer student, I can tell you that for my year (2007) we set the record for the highest GPA from community college --> USC. They historically accept almost anyone with a 3.6 or higher community college GPA, but the average GPA of community college transfers for my year was actually 3.80. They made that very clear during my orientation last year and were extremely proud of our >1,000 person transfer class.</p>

<p>These are all the reasons I can think of among other things that have been pointed out..</p>

<p>*The average age of transfers are older.. We come in, and come out with the goal of getting a full time job offer within 2 years. We are more mature too and I think the average age is 23. I met 8 people at my orientation last year (one guy was 30 and the other was 26) who I still keep in touch with and every one of them including me had great summer internships and a full time offer waiting for us when we graduate this May.</p>

<p>*Transfers have higher overall GPA's compared to incoming freshmen. (This is kind of biased since we DIDN'T have to take writ 140 or any of the other "extra" courses USC mandates for incoming freshmen). This means that we get to jump straight into our upper division courses which are usually curved higher and I guess more passionate in.</p>

<p>*Transfer students DO NOT factor into the undergraduate reports of rankings. I never took SAT's in HS and my HS GPA was a subpar 2.7/4.0. I was able to transfer into USC with a 4.0 with honors from my community college which resulted in me receiving a "full ride" to USC. If you factored the GPA and SAT scores of transfers into the college rankings, we would unfortunately DRAG DOWN USC a lot so this is a way of "inflating" our rankings while letting so many transfers in. At the end of the day, USC is a business so if they can admit transfer students who will come in for only 2 years and graduate and NOT have it change the overall ranking of the school.</p>

<p>Among other things, I feel like the transfer program in CA is really a "hidden gem" and if there are students here who couldn't get in as a freshman, definitely go the transfer route because you are virtually guaranteed a spot. Obviously the people who work really hard out of HS and get rejected might feel that the transfer route is unfair and I totally agree, but this really is a way giving a lot of students like me who slacked off in HS a second chance of attending a very prestigious university.</p>

<p>If using me and my circle of friends as an example, we have been hitting the dean's list every since we transferred here and I wouldn't be surprised if all of us graduated with honors.. (A lot of people on the forum like to look down on transfers for some reason?)

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<p>Thank you, that's a fair and thorough response. I have to admit that I do "look down" at transfers to some degree because of some of the reasons you cited.</p>

<p>1) Transfers put in 2 years of (IMO) creampuff work and 2 years of hard work vs 4 years of hard work for students who enter as freshmen. I've taken 7 CC classes over various summers and in High School at 3 different CC's so that's how I rate the difficulty. Maybe other CC's are more difficult, I'm not sure.</p>

<p>2)For transfers it is easier to get a higher GPA because they aren't weighed down by Writ-140 and other such classes.</p>

<p>3) From personal experience the average transfer student is not as bright, on average, as the average student who comes in out of highschool. They work just as hard, probably even harder, but they just aren't as intelligent in my opinion. Some might point out that they know a bright transfer student (and obviously there are many of them) but on average the two groups don't really come close. The logic I'm using is similar to "the average woman isn't as tall as the average man even though there are some women that are taller than men." I've had two classes which were filled with almost all transfer students because they were hidden sections "saved" for transfer students and which only opened up to me after classes already started. In both of these classes I was quite distressed by the average transfer students' capabilities.</p>

<p>4) On average transfer students don't seem as social as far as school spirit and being part of the community. See: Daily</a> Trojan - New study finds transfer students are less social</p>

<p>5) People judge a school to some degree based on how intelligent the people they know have graduated from there. If the average USC grad isn't as bright, that lowers the value of a USC degree.</p>

<p>So basically in my opinion transfer students work less hard for a higher GPA, potentially dilute the value of my degree, and are not as spirited or social. I do concede, however, that they are probably more serious students and that they are more mature.</p>

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<p>Transfer students still have to take Writ 340 and two other lower-division classes just like everyone else. Just thought I'd throw that out there.</p>

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<p>As a prospective transfer student, it does seem unfair to freshmen. USC should be a bit more selective with transfers. To me it seems as if transfers from CC's take the "economical, easier" route by transferring. </p>

<p>My particular reason for wanting to transfer is because I'm not as happy as I thought I would be at Tulane. I accepted the early decision last year (tuition was virtually free when coupled with merit and outside scholarships), it's close to home, and familiar. But academically, it's not as intense as I imagined, the rankings dipped instead of shooting up like I expected it, and in terms of school spirit, Tulane scores really low (will change for Spring because of baseball season, but still, it isn't the same; homecoming really sucked...).</p>

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<p>As long as President Sample is in charge at SC I see no plans whatsoever of increasing the size of the freshman class.</p>

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<p>To be fair, I think transfer students from other 4-year universities tend to be more prepared. It's only the CC transfers that have it easy in my opinion.</p>

<p>With regards to Writ-340, I have taken both 340 and 140 and 340 was much easier for me. This tends to be the general consensus from those that I have spoken to. </p>

<p>Returning to the original topic, perhaps USC is overcompensating for a percieved lack of diversity and being a destination for rich kids by admitting bucketloads of transfer students, even though this is based on an outdated stereotype.</p>

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<p>UCLA Professor would disagree with you


</p>

<p>Bottom of page 16
<a href="http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/polisci/faculty/groseclose/CUARS.Resignation.Report.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/polisci/faculty/groseclose/CUARS.Resignation.Report.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>It's a win-win. Transfer students can go to UCLA instead. :)</p>

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<p>Some aren't groomed from age 14 to track towards schools like USC. Also some can't afford to have an extra $100,000-worth of debt just lying around. These two amount to many, and all of us shouldn't be exempted from the opportunity to study at USC, and should not be subject to criticism for wanting to do so.</p>

<p>Get over yourselves. You're angry like a person who buys an expensive television set only to find out that their neighbor got the same thing the following week - on sale.</p>

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<p>There are good reasons to attend a CC, but should these students have lesser admission requirements like not having to send in SAT's? Could you realistically see freshman admissions being SAT-optional? I would have much more positive feelings toward CC transfers if they demonstrate good SAT scores in addition to GPA.</p>

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<p>
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Get over yourselves. You're angry like a person who buys an expensive television set only to find out that their neighbor got the same thing the following week - on sale.

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<p>Yes I think that's an apt analogy. And I think it's a perfectly legitimate reason to be angry. Especially when something as important as the value of your degree is in question. In the retail industry, there are companies that offer a best price guarantee, refunding the difference if a price drops within a certain time frame after they buy a item. Example: Washington</a> Times - KRALEV: Get refund if air fare drops If it's an important issue in retail, then surely it is an important issue in my $100k+ investment in a USC degree.</p>

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<p>If you paid money which you could afford for a product that satisfies your needs, why are you concerned by others and what they may or may not have paid? Stop looking for some sort of personal validation based on the exclusivity of the university you attend (or the labels in your clothes) and investing so much energy to keeping others out. Whether you realize it or not, the quality of higher education lies in the accessibility to excellent professors across a broad range of disciplines plus the opportunity for growth and development in your field. For those who need convincing their diploma holds potential $$ value outside the intrinsic value of a fine education, it has been well-established that the USC name on the diploma opens doors throughout Southern California where thousands of alums love their school and help new grads. Frankly this hot concern over transfers smacks of sour grapes and elitism. This thread is terribly rude and insulting, as if you actually believe getting a high SAT score when you are 17 or 18 entitles you to more in life. It doesn't. It simply allows you to enter a more selective college in your freshman year, rather than jumping through hoops to transfer in later where you then get to deal with another round of readjustments to a new school, making new friends, etc. There will be many paths in life--and not everyone will get to their destination in exactly the same way. So... chill?</p>

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<p>Firstly, back off on the insinuation that I am elitist - I was raised by a single mother and spent a few years of my childhood on welfare. I don't drive a fancy car, don't wear brand-name clothes, and I am not particularly wealthy. However, I care about the value of my degree - what others think of it is a legitimate issue. </p>

<p>Yes, the current value of a USC degree is quite good but there is room for improvement. CC is a legitimate path to USC, students taking that path need to be held to the same standard of admission as everyone else. Again I ask if it would be realistic to have SAT-optional for entering freshman, as it is for transfers.</p>

<p>USC wishes to become the Stanford of the South; if so, they should adopt Stanford's strict transfer guidelines and SAT requirement. And it's not just Stanford. Princeton for example does not accept ANY transfer students. MIT, Yale, Brown, Duke, Dartmouth, Carnegie Mellon, etc have transfer students that make up <5% of their graduating class. At USC the number is 75%. The next highest after USC is NYU at 36%. By admitting so many CC transfers, (yes I am aware that of the 75% not all are from CC) USC is shortchanging its freshman admits. </p>

<p>It is of course not PC to say so, and I expect a barrage of criticism. Hell we should "just let everyone have a chance." Prestige is just abstract and not important anyway.</p>

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<p>Well, then I guess you should have applied to Princeton! Can't you just be proud of yourself for being able to get in as a Freshman? That in itself is an "honor" of sorts. I don't think it's fair to trivialize the path of transfers. As a transfer, I can assure you that there are no guarantees, there is strategic work involved and it's just as nailbiting of a wait. Perhaps the difference between Freshman credentials and those of transfers(and maybe why there are more of the latter than the former) is perhaps that transfers have a bit of a college track record. Freshman don't. Their diligence is also says something, or maybe additional real life experience contributes to their application. Sometimes they are already on their own supporting themselves financially. Perhaps they've proven they can manage a college schedule, while working, or being married with additional responsibilities etc.. I hope you don't take your judgemental (though I believe it's a result of more ignorance and immaturity than intention) to the work force. The person who interviews you, might be that USC transfer student, or someone who never even graduated from college! You sound bitter, instead of grateful; and that's pitiful.</p>

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<p>Also, BTW...all of your Freshman credentials (or anyone's) no matter how exceptional - doesn't guarantee success. Many fail without the security and luxuries of home life. At least a transfer student has additional track record. The reason why Freshman's need all the high and mighty credentials is because the university has no other way to judge your ability to manage college work responsibly other than your graded aptitude stuff. Be more open minded - not all transfers are lazy, dumb people who couldn't get in as freshman.</p>

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<p>I don't work for USC, but it seems reasonable if USC had more on-campus housing available (which it sounds like they are working on), the end result will probably be more freshmen admits and fewer transfers. Also, there was such a staggering number of applicants last year (around 36,000), that it is reasonable to assume that many highly qualified students were turned down. Those students who were initially denied admission, may still want USC and strive to enter as a transfer student, even if it means not having the freshman dorm college experience. I am sure that USC is not just taking
weak transfer students to make money. USC will take the best of all applicants, freshmen or transfer, that space permits. These other elite institutions you cited above, probably have on-campus housing available for 4 years for its students and do not have room to take more students. USC has limited on-campus housing but does have more room on campus for more QUALIFIED students. The strong USC alumni network, which means a great deal, even in a declining economy, sets USC apart.</p>

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<p>I also want to add that I don't care how many transfer students USC takes. What I do care about is the fact that Viterbi provides an outstanding Engineering education and that, when the time comes, there is an excellent alumni network to help with finding a job upon graduation. When you select a college, you should choose the school because it offers the kind of program you want to study. Numbers of transfers is trivial compared to the overall excellent college/educational experience USC provides.</p>

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<p>It seems that you're trying to make the argument that entering transfer students are detrimental to the value of a USC degree. Yet you haven't really made an argument. All you're saying is that it's easier to get in as a transfer (which you haven't been able to substantiate since you have NEVER been a prospective transfer) and that you got screwed for entering as a Freshman. Is that the jist of it?</p>

<p>As for the SATs, I would argue that SAT scores are not correlated with one's fundamental propensity. Anyone who has taken the SATs (including myself; I got a 2040) knows that it's a big regurgitation competition. Many powers-that-be in higher education have advocated removing the SATs as a mechanism in college admissions - do a search and see for yourself.</p>

<p>You are treating SATs like IQ tests and they are not. If they were, they would not be as temporal as they are. Do you really think that a 17-year-old HS student would outscore a 20- or 21-year-old transfer with 2-3 years of college general education under their belt?</p>

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<p>I have a question about the original post (I'm numerically challenged). Does that mean that 75% of the graduating class is composed of transfers? That doesn't seem right, especially in light of the UC figures, with UCLA at 111%. I'm not sure that 111% of UCLA's graduating class made of transfers, haha.</p>

<p>Intuitively I'm thinking that since those numbers are in relation to entering freshman, something like 37% of a given graduating class at USC is made of transfers. Someone help me with my reasoning...</p>

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<p>
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% related to entering freshmen

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10 characters</p>