Why don't people just use TAG?

<p>The TAG program guarantees you admission to YOUR select UC (excluding UCLA i believe) with a minimal GPA of 3.4. Why don't people just take the easier route and go to community college rather than try hard in highschool. The requirements in the TAG program are all manageable and could be done in 2 years, and as some of you may know, you'll also be saving about 30 grand for the 2 years learning the general ed. you'd learn at the UC. In essence, a person that tried very hard and had to beat out competitors with 4.0+ GPA and solid extracurriculars got into UCI. The person using the TAG program not only saved money but attended the same university.</p>

<p>Buuuuuuuuuuuuuump :)</p>

<p>Honestly the last thing we need is to make community college as competitive as High School. which is something that will probably happen in the next 10-30 years.
Let the people go into whatever school they are accepted.</p>

<p>Getting a 3.4 GPA in college is a lot different from getting a 3.4 GPA in high school.</p>

<p>(And many high school AP courses cover a semester’s worth of college frosh material over a year, with the usual greater hand-holding that high schools have compared to colleges, so the transition to college may still be significant even for someone who took high school AP courses.)</p>

<p>Actually, recieving a 3.4 GPA in Community college is remarkably easy. I am addressing to the people who are trying to compete as an undergraduate freshman to a university. Those who are competitors should not cry because they didn’t make the school, but be reassured that their efforts will not be in vain. They have the TAG program which guarantees them admission to top tier UC’s excluding Berkeley and LA.</p>

<p>A 3.4 GPA won’t get you into UCLA or UCB. To get into either school requires a 3.7+ to be competitive. If you can get that kind of GPA in CC, you could get that type of GPA in HS with possibility the only exception being math. Since at CC you only need to take stats whereas HS requires pre-calc+ to be competitive. </p>

<p>Honestly I think most HS students are just plain lazy. I don’t know one person who is doing well in CC that still spends their entire afternoon smoking weed.</p>

<p>I said excluding UCLA and UCB. What I’m saying is you don’t need to be competitive. You just need to fill the requirements of TAG, which is basically a 3.4 GPA minimal to attend UCI, UCD, UCSB…</p>

<p>A few reasons… </p>

<p>Transfer students tend to get less financial aid. On many UC campuses, they are given lowest priority in class registration often making it impossible for them to finish in 2 years. Not all majors are open to transfers on every campus.</p>

<p>Community colleges are compacted. It’s difficult to get those IGETC classes if you don’t have some type of priority registration. It takes a lot of students more than two years. You don’t have as many class options at the community college. Most classes are introductory level and if something strikes your fancy, you may be put in the position of waiting until you get to the university to explore a subject further. Frustrating to the passionate learner.</p>

<p>Many community college students coming straight from high school continue to live at home. Many young adults are ready to move out and try their hand at living on their own (in the safety of a dorm with a meal plan lol.) </p>

<p>Needing a 3.4 isn’t standard. The minimum GPA varies between UC’s. Some higher, some lower. It isn’t always easy at a CC when you are taking the appropriate classes. My daughter is in a middle college high school program and takes most of her classes at the community college. She’s doing great but she’s in classes where half the class fails (especially in the sciences.) Along those lines, a traditionally high achieving student can be frustrated in a class where half the class is failing and ready to be in a class with peers that push them to grow.</p>

<p>Personally, I think the TAG program is great! I DO think more kids should be taking advantage of it. However, I have a senior daughter who wants to go straight to the university and her reasons are sound.</p>

<p>Turtletime, I’ve done the research and looked at the statistics, and it isn’t that hard to take the IGETC classes if you go to the right one CC(Which I am[highest transfer rate from CC to University]. I agree that you won’t be pushed to learn as attending the university, but most people get out of CC within 2 years because the requirements for TAG is completed 30 semester or 45 quarter UC-transferable units, which is just 2 years. No ifs or ands or buts. A 3.4 GPA was the requirement to get into UCI, one of the top tier UC’s(The other UC’s are around 3.2) Getting a 4.0 GPA in community college is very easy as well. Extra credit, how the tests are(very formulaic and basically what you write in your notes). Your counselor will deal with the classes if you talk to them about the TAG program as well.</p>

<p>UCSD is a 3.5. Maybe you should do more research. </p>

<p>You are a bit angsty about this aren’t you lol. Are you trying to justify your own choice? You sound both incredulous that others would NOT go to a CC first and loathing of the program itself. I can’t tell, are you HAPPY to be finding it easy or upset?</p>

<p>As to your finding your classes easy then you may not actually be at the best CC and thus may not be getting the preparation you need for upper division classes at the university. Extra credit? My high schooler has completed 38 units and never once had a class that offered extra credit lol. The tests? It depends. Some are straight forward and others are not at all. Yes, some classes are easy. Hate to break it to you but some university classes are a cake walk too. If you aren’t feeling challenged at all then stretch yourself in another direction.</p>

<p>You are coming across angry or like someone with something to prove. Be happy and secure with your choice and not stress about why other kids go straight into the UC’s from high school (went to UC Berkeley myself… daughter applying to several UC’s.)</p>

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<p>UC net price calculators do not indicate any financial aid difference for frosh vs. transfer students, but some other schools may.</p>

<p>Regarding course registration, Berkeley at least reserves spaces in some courses for new juniors (i.e. entering transfers). The courses are those which these entering transfers tend to take for their majors. After the first semester or quarter, they are presumably given the same priority as any other student.</p>

<p>The more likely reasons for for delayed graduation among transfer students (i.e. needing more than 4 semesters or 6 quarters after transfer) are (a) for some majors, the lower division courses are hard to find at CCs, requiring transfers to take “catch up” courses after transfer (consider chemical engineering, EECS, and L&S CS at Berkeley, for example), and (b) transfers are more likely to be non-traditional students who may need to take lighter course loads due to other obligations (e.g. work or family).</p>

<p>A CC student intending to transfer to a UC or CSU should use <a href=“http://www.assist.org%5B/url%5D”>http://www.assist.org</a> to find courses that give the best coverage of lower division courses for his/her major at the target universities. In some cases, there may be need to take courses at more than one CC.</p>

<p>It sounds easy now but, see how many of your friends actually transfer to mid-tier UCs in 2 years.</p>

<p>Most CCs in CA have shockingly low transfer rates. Do a little objective research and you’ll quickly find papers like this:
<a href=“http://californiacommunitycolleges.cccco.edu/Portals/0/Executive/StudentSuccessTaskForce/SSTF_Final_Report_1-17-12_Print.pdf[/url]”>http://californiacommunitycolleges.cccco.edu/Portals/0/Executive/StudentSuccessTaskForce/SSTF_Final_Report_1-17-12_Print.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>that says:
“Of our students who seek to transfer to a four-year institution, only 41 percent are successful. For African Americans, only 34 percent succeed. For Latinos, the figure is 31 percent.”</p>

<p>Clearly there are many factors driving those numbers - but system wide, 6 out 10 CC in CA who identify themselves as wanting to transfer to a 4 year school never do - ever. Substantially fewer than 4 in 10 do it in 2 years. As the report goes on to say, the system is digging deep to change that but, it will take time.</p>

<p>TAG is a viable path for thousands of applicants every year but, they are swiming against the tide. At most campuses, it is not as easy as you are representing.</p>

<p>UCSD is dropping TAG. Last chance is Fall of '14.</p>

<p>Re: #12 and <a href=“http://californiacommunitycolleges.cccco.edu/Portals/0/Executive/StudentSuccessTaskForce/SSTF_Final_Report_1-17-12_Print.pdf[/url]”>http://californiacommunitycolleges.cccco.edu/Portals/0/Executive/StudentSuccessTaskForce/SSTF_Final_Report_1-17-12_Print.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I would not be surprised if the low success is due to the incoming students’ preparation.</p>

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<p>“Transfer level in Math” is probably precalculus, as that appears to be the baseline minimum for transfer admission to UC (of course, many campuses and majors likely have higher standards). Attempting to remediate poor K-12 education at the CC is sometimes successful, but often not.</p>

<p>But a student starting at CC in college level (not remedial) courses likely has a much better chance of success than one needing lots of remedial courses.</p>

<p>UCB - No question there are lots of drivers and it is a very complex problem. </p>

<p>Nonetheless, it is undeniable that the normal, typical or average student at Cal CCs does not transfer to the college of their dreams in 2 years. In fact, most of them never do.</p>

<p>TAG is a good program and works for many kids. The State reports about 14k students transfer from CA CC to a UC each year. (Another 50k+ move on to CSUs and still more to OOS or privates.) A significant portion of those use TAG. Clearly the system worked for them.</p>

<p>[California</a> Postsecondary Education Commission – Transfer Pathways](<a href=“http://www.cpec.ca.gov/OnLineData/TransferPathway.asp]California”>http://www.cpec.ca.gov/OnLineData/TransferPathway.asp)</p>

<p>The CC to a 4 year degree path works and is a viable option for many. At most CCs it is not the slam dunk the OP makes it out to be. Some, bright and motivated students quickly find their way through CCs and on to top notch school. With a reported 2.4M enrolled and 70k-75k transfering out each year, it is not, however, the norm.</p>

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<p>Not all of the 2.4 million enrolled are aiming to transfer. Indeed, if 75,000 per year represents 40% of the initially transfer-intending students, then the number of initially transfer-intending students would be around 187,500 per year.</p>

<p>What would be more useful would be to consider what percentage of transfer-intending CC students who were CSU eligible at high school graduation successfully transferred to and graduated from four year schools, and what percentage of transfer-intending CC students who were UC eligible at high school graduation successfully transferred to and graduated from four year schools, and compare that to CSU and UC graduation rates (or similar comparisons based on academic preparation of the incoming students).</p>

<p>For comparison, CSU overall retains about 70% of frosh after two years, but only 16%, 40%, and 52% graduate in four, five, and six years respectively, according to [CSU</a> | Analytic Studies | FTF Gradution Rates in the CSU](<a href=“http://www.asd.calstate.edu/gradrates/ftf.shtml]CSU”>http://www.asd.calstate.edu/gradrates/ftf.shtml) .</p>

<p>Fair point UCB - I am sure most UC qualified students who choose a CC and put their mind to it earn the right to transfer farily quickly.</p>

<p>The OPs message - TAG is a peice of cake, just take these classes, get some As and Bs and you are out - is inaccurate. Earning a TAG transfer is hard work, the rules can change on you and many people who try don’t succeed.</p>

<p>My intent is not to say the OP or any individual won’t make it through. Tens of thousands do every year. Rather that as a student at a CC you will be surrounded by people with no realistic chance or intention of transfering to a 4 year school and earning a BA/BS. It is a very different experience than that of a freshman at a UC/CSU (admittedly to a lesser extent at a CSU) where most of the students will move along at a more predictable pace. </p>

<p>No question many CSUs struggle with timely graduation, my alma mater (Sac) included with <10% in 4yrs. I also went to a CC, was one of a few that transfered in 2 years to Sac and got my BS 2 years later. It was the right chioce for me at the time because, frankly, I was too immature. That was a LONG time ago but it was the exception then too. They are working system wide (CSUs and CCs) to raise the performance on that front but, it is a reality for current students. </p>

<p>Grad rate was an important consideration when selecting a school for my son. It is a strong indication of what’s ‘normal’ at a particular campus. </p>

<p>Most of the 2.4M students attending Cal CCs either have no plans or have unrealistic plans of transfering and earning a 4 year degree. Most of the 700k students a UCs and CSUs want to graduate in a timely fashion and have the skillset/background to pull it off. At most Cal CCs, you are literally swimming against the tide if you want to transfer quickly. Lots of people make it but, they are the exception, not the rule.</p>

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<p>But will an academically well prepared CC student even be in the same courses as the CC students with goals other than transfer to a four year school, or those who are in remedial courses?</p>

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<p>A school’s graduation rate is closely linked to its admissions selectivity, since better prepared students are more likely to be able to handle a bachelor’s degree’s worth of college course work. A given student’s likelihood of graduating from different schools is probably a lot less variable than the schools’ graduation rates.</p>

<p>The unprepared student will be in your parking lot, library, etc. They also eventuallly need to attempt college level course-work and take up a spot in GE courses - making some of them tough to get. </p>

<p>Some CC campuses take transfer students very seriously, they view it as core to their mission. Others, less so.</p>

<p>Despite the difficulty many have, Cal CCs are a vital link for lots of students really have no other choice.</p>

<p>Its not the same experience and education you’d get at a mid tier UC.</p>

<p>UCI isn’t a mid tier UC. I’d say it’s one of the top UC’s out there behind Berkeley and LA(possibly Davis). I’m saying, as UCBA stated that for those that are capable of achieving those 3.5 GPA’s in a somewhat rigorous schedule, TAG is a very viable and very safe option. Say that 3.5 GPA with the rigorous schedule got rejected by their dream school, UCI or possibly Davis, but got accepted to a Cal State. For the short term, sure, Cal state is the way to go, but for the long term, if you go CC (after being rejected by UCI or some university that participates in TAG) you can almost certainly attend that university instead of being stuck at a Cal state. The main reason you’re attending a university is for a job, and the more selective the college, (including the school’s specialization) the better chance you have to get a well-paying CAREER.</p>