As I have been scrolling through College Confidential and reading many forums, I often come across a forum in which the OP lists all of their amazing stats (4.0 GPA, 35 ACT, excellent ECs, etc, etc, etc.), and then this OP proceeds to write about how she/he was only accepted to her/ his safeties and denied from all other schools. While I know that is very difficult to get into selective colleges with low acceptance rates, I am just confused as to how these students with such high stats were not accepted to even ONE of the reaches / matches. In these cases, does the student just have seriously bad luck or is there a major flaw in her/ his application? It just baffles me that these students with such high stats don’t even get accepted to their state university. Sometimes these students not only get denied from Ivies and the such but also from less selective schools like U Mich ( even though these are amazing schools, they are a lot less selective than say Harvard).
Potential reasons:
- Essays, recommendations, and other subjectively graded parts of the application.
- Applying to a popular major or division at schools that admit by major or division.
here are X number of places in selective colleges and 4X the number of high statted students.
@ucbalumnus But do their average essays / recommendations really jeopardize their high GPA, high ACT / SAT scores and excellent ECs?
Yes, when there are many others with those stats and better essays, recommendations, etc…
I agree with @ucbalumnus . I think many times students believe that how they measure up against their peers and fellow classmates is an indication and reflection of the strength of their application. They fail to consider that most every student applying has very similar stats. Add to that the number of students applying to multiple selective universities also affects the acceptance, rejections and deferrals .
Unfortunately, highly selective colleges often require a lot more than just fabulous grades and scores. The EC’s may not have been seen by the colleges as excellent, even if the applicant thought they were. Or the grades were in courses that were seen as average, or not challenging enough, or not AP, or some other reason. Students have to stand out to get into these selective schools. It’s a tough situation.
There is always a bigger fish.
The craziest high stat kids getting shut out of top school that i have seen have been almost always been male, disfavored race applying to a heavily impacted STEM major.
There is a large cohort of students with parents who have tried to carefully carve out a resume for their children with the hopes of getting them into the top colleges. Everything is done to be the best and to carve out that winning resume/application. And it starts very early. Tutoring with the first sign of an A- or x-forbid a B and repeated testings until the scores look like they would had the student really been a scholar. Nope, that does not turn the student into a scholar but one who looks kind like it as long as you don’t know how much tutoring and repeated test sessions were needed to create the image.
For the majority of these kids, there is no intellectual curiosity. No drive to figure out how things work. It’s all about getting the best grade and being in the right clubs and getting accepted into the best orchestra but no excitement about a new piece. And had there been any possibility the kid could have naturally developed into a scholar… well the parents have beaten it out of the kid. Had there been the possibility that the kid would have some unique interests or skills…well, the fact that the parents practically force their kids to do the “right” ECs ensures that no uniqueness survives.
And what do we end up with? A flood of 800s and perfect GPAs and no intellectual curiosity or inspiration of any sort. And what do the top colleges want? They want the students with natural spark and curiosity. Not the students whose parents tried to carve them into the person who looks like they have that. (and as soon as some parents read this they will likely try to construct that spark so that the kid is attractive to top schools-hint-glitter is sold at Walmart)
So, I understand how it is surprising to see all these 800s rejected by top but top schools don’t accept 800s. They are looking for students.
I know a lot of peers who have 800s, perfect GPAs, and GREAT EXTRACURRICULARS get rejected from all (or most) of the ivy leagues. I hate it when people say a flood of 800s and people with perfect GPAs dont have intellectual curiousity. A lot of people with good scores study hard and also pursue their interests…
One of my asian friends has a 2380 SAT and is top 0.1% in my class of 900. He loved computer science and won countless coding competitions, and even made a pretty decent website. However, he was rejected by all the ivy leagues and waitlisted cornell.I wasn’t even too surprised.
I have to agree with @lostaccount 's version of events. I think a lot of the kids on this site are stressed and just trying to make the grade. It’s not their fault, it’s just how the American education system is designed. College admissions officers are pros. From essays and letters of rec, they can tell who they want to attend their college. They can tell who is just trying to sneak in a list of accomplishments in their personal statement and who is genuinely interested in learning or a certain subject matter. I actually don’t think that the rejection rates on this site accurately represent the rejection rates of “4.0 2400 students” accurately. This site tends to attract the grade-seekers simply due to the nature of a website focused largely on college admissions. Many of these students aren’t attracted to a site like CC (or at least don’t spend a lot of time on it) because getting the absolute best grades and worrying about admissions aren’t as important to them.
@TomSrOfBoston said it perfectly: there’s just too many qualified applicants for too few spots.
I will say that based on data from my school, underrepresented minorities and first-generation students WITH HIGH STATS seem to have a pretty good shot at gaining admission into selective colleges.
yoyohi, some people with 800s and “perfect” GPAs have intellectual curiously but many have parents who did all the right things to ensure that they have kids who look like they have intellectual curiosity. But then have the conversation. Ask them what they are really interested in. “aaahh??” What do they want to pursue? " Undecided or premed" And premed disappears in the first year of college (if allowed) because that’s what the parents hoped for. The student was not at the helm of the scholarly ship, that’s for sure.
Naturally there are students who are the driving force for their own achievements and direction. In my experience those are not the students who get rejected from all the Ivy league schools. Of course, they are also not the students so desperate to get into the Ivy League schools either (so maybe they are less likely to post on CC). Their life won’t come crashing down if they go to a college nobody has heard of as long as it offers an opportunity to study what they want to pursue. But those desperate to go to the Ivy League schools are often those with the kind of parents I describe and they are often inculcated into a culture that puts a premium on “winning top spot” rather than “thinking very well”. The top schools don’t want students who game scholarship. They want students who pursue it.
GMTplus. It may not be about demographic only. If a student’s parents ensured they completed “The list to successfully secure an Ivy League slot”, they took the same classes, played the same instrument, play the same sport, joined the same clubs, aspire to the same profession and had the same tutors. How many slots should the same student fill?
I understand who these students may not get into one or two or even three of these very selective schools, but my question is if this kid gets denied from EVERY single selective school, then is it just his / her bad luck or a major flaw in their application? It just surprises me that these kids aren’t even getting into their state schools. It just doesn’t make sense. Obviously, I understand that there are way more students than spots, but what I don’t understand is how such a student isn’t even accepted to ONE of the ten selective schools she / he applied to even if he / she is this “carved” out applicant. Not even one!!?! @lostaccount @ucbalumnus @TomSrOfBoston @carolinamom2boys @maggiedog @Nedcone @8bagels @yoyohi @coolstudent54 @golfcashoahu2 @GMTplus7
When a person applies to schools with single digit admission rates, their chances of admission are not cumulative-- ie just because they apply to many does not mean they have a greater chance at getting into any one school.
@lostaccount I agree.