<p>How much are club dues?</p>
<p>For some clubs, in the tens of thousands.</p>
<p>Oh really? Do you have a supporting link for that claim?</p>
<p>Maybe you can go find one. I have work to do now, so I must go. I did spend a year taking courses at Princeton (senior year of high school) and got to know the environment pretty well, so I am fairly sure of this. But if you can refute me, I'll give you a lollipop.</p>
<p>Why not just apologise for your gross exaggeration? Admit you pulled that little stat out of your posterior?</p>
<p>Mensa--I don't know if there are any other charges, but the difference between the university-sponsored upperclass eating options and the eating clubs is generally $2000-$3000. While financial aid will not cover the differential, the university will provide loans to students on financial aid to cover the differential.</p>
<p>Byerly -- because I didn't ;-)</p>
<p>sure you did. no club costs "tens of thousands."</p>
<p>"At present, the difference between residential college dining contracts and full eating club membership fees ranges from a few hundred dollars to over $2000, depending on the club. The University provides no financial aid grants for these expenses, but loans are available through the financial aid office, just as there are for unsponsored trips or computer purchases."</p>
<p>Those are just the explicitly stated expenses. There are lots of things one has to shell out (if one is to be reasonably a member of a club) that aren't covered by the official fees.</p>
<p>In any case, even if it's just several thousand dollars per term/year, that already makes being a member clubs a hardship for anyone who isn't fairly well off.</p>
<p>You also seem to be forgetting that there are de facto limits on who can join the particularly elite clubs, and those limits have to do with wealth and membership in various aristocracies.</p>
<p>And just because you insist, you ridiculous little monkeys:</p>
<p>Membership Fees
Initiation - $450</p>
<p>Advance Deposit - $450</p>
<p>Board Bill - $6250</p>
<p>Social Fee - $500</p>
<p>That's close to $8,000 just in OFFICIALLY STATED fees. For just the club whose fees I found first!</p>
<p>You improperly list a "board bill" that is not in addition to - but substitutes for - a bill that would otherwise be due to the University. For 2005-6, this bill would, I believe, be $4,153.</p>
<p>$7,650 =/= "tens of thousands." HTH.</p>
<p>OK. There is zero in terms of extra fees to join a club. You pay your fee you eat your food you go to parties. Done.</p>
<p>Now, the issue of the effect of clubs on Princeton's social environment is a separate issue. But the fees are straightforward. Please. Argue the merits.</p>
<p>
I know you're a Princeton alum and current Princeton parent, but this story in the Princetonian from a month ago suggests your statement is wrong. Am I missing something?</p>
<p>Here's an excerpt:</p>
<p>At present, the difference between residential college dining contracts and full eating club membership fees ranges from a few hundred dollars to over $2000, depending on the club. The University provides no financial aid grants for these expenses, but loans are available through the financial aid office, just as there are for unsponsored trips or computer purchases.</p>
<p>Some students, Lenahan and other USG members argued, are deterred from joining a club because of these higher costs. But an aid program could help eliminate these financial concerns. "Someone with less financial means should be able to participate in this part of the Princeton experience," Lenahan said.</p>
<p>ICC chair Marco Fossati-Bellani '07, who is also president of Colonial Club, described an economic and social divide between club members and non-club members. "The University is fooling itself to think there isn't a divide," he said in an interview following the meeting.</p>
<p>I think what alummother is saying is that there are no fees above and beyond the listed ones - Ben had suggested that there were extra costs not listed. Additionally, she is pointing out that it isn't as if someone who joins cottage, which is one of the two priciest clubs (I'm not sure if Ivy is more or less expensive) would have eaten for free if he had not joined. The difference in the two plans is still substantial, but far less from either the "tens of thousands" that Ben first claimed, or even the 8000 dollar cost he then listed.</p>
<p>ben golub,</p>
<p>please tell me why the hell you involved yourself in this debate.</p>
<p>BTW, re the earlier comment about Harvard not being perfect ... we've discussed Harvard's flaws before on the board, and I'm sure we'd all be happy to do so again. I've freely talked about the fact that I think a perfect Harvard wouldn't have any final clubs:</p>
<p>But that's consistent with my experience that they are no big deal and that most Harvard students have full social lives without ever thinking about the clubs. If you're another Ross Douthat and you plan to spend your college years obsessing about your place on an imaginary social totem pole, final clubs are a real problem. If you plan to spend that time having fun with the 6,000 or so of your schoolmates who have better things to do, they're a non-issue.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Your analogy is inapt. Hanna has it exactly right. 5% or less of the students ever belong to so-called "final" clubs, and the overwhelming majority view them as entirely irrelevant.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yeah - only 5% belong because, as of only recently, the final clubs were all-male, eliminating half of the student body right there. Furthermore, the 2 female final clubs are still much smaller than the male final clubs. </p>
<p>Yet the fact is, we all know that a significant number of students who want to get into final clubs are not chosen, and final clubs are an important part of the social scene, unless you want to accuse the Harvard Crimson of shoddy journalism, and those clubs that protest the final clubs of foolishlessly wasting their time. But if you are going to do that, then you are just admitting that some other part of Harvard has problems. I don't know what is worse, having highly exclusive and elite final clubs that comprise a large portion of the Harvard social scene, or having all of these Harvard students who are stupidly wasting their time in constantly protesting against them.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There is absolutely no comparison with the impact of the "eating clubs" on social life at Princeton, where it is virtually essential to join an "eating club" of greater or lesser exclusivity - 75% of undergraduates find it necessary to do so.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't see what this has to do with anything. Yeah, so Princeton has eating clubs. So what? Just because Princeton does something, that means that Harvard is allowed to do it too? If Scott Peterson murders his wife, does that mean that other guys are now allowed to murder their wives? </p>
<p>We're not talking about what happens at Princeton. We're talking about what happens at Harvard, and whether it's right or wrong. It is not exactly much of a defense to say "It's bad, but at least it's less bad than what happens at some other school." Who cares? It's still bad. We should have the honesty to admit that it's bad.</p>
<p>I'm apalled that Princeton would stratify students over a couple of thousand $$$ for an eating club. What's the logic behing that?</p>
<br>
<p>no human institution could ever live up to Harvard's reputation. The reputation is for superhuman perfection -- no matter what, if you come into a group of mortals looking for perfection, it's going to fall short. Transfers don't compare Harvard to perfection; they compare it to their old schools. Another is that from the minute you're accepted, outside of your family you're going to be attacked if you say positive things about Harvard. People have an absolutely bizarre level of reaction to that name; they act like you're rubbing their face in their own failings by going there, and then if you have the audacity to be happy on top of it? The result is, it's a minefield to talk about Harvard, and it's always safer to say something negative.</p>
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<p>what a gal,...</p>