Why go to a UC and not a CalState? Whats the diff?

Transfer Students UC Transfers
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<p>Revenge of the Nerds</p>

<p>Despite the fame of private schools like Harvard, Yale, Stanford and Duke, and the numerous loyal alumni of state school powerhouses like the University of California, Michigan, and Texas, the top earning bachelor’s graduates for the last two years have hailed from the smallest Ivy League institution, Dartmouth College in the mountains of Hanover, New Hampshire.</p>

<p>What are the factors that have made Dartmouth #1:</p>

<pre><code>* Strong programs in engineering and computer science, majors with perennially well-paid graduates

  • A large number of alums who migrate to high wage areas like New York, Boston, and the San Francisco bay area
  • A substantial number of graduates working in financial services (read, “Wall Street”)
    </code></pre>

<p>These factors are why Dartmouth has been able to nose out more famous college competitors for top honors for mid-career pay.</p>

<p>The “great recession” has changed things: the center of top earnings has moved about as far as you can go in the continental US from cold New Hampshire.</p>

<p>This year, the top earning school is tiny Harvey Mudd College in sunny southern California. While small, Harvey Mudd is a very selective institution, only taking high school grads with outstanding records and a strong interest in engineering, math, or science, the only fields of study it offers.</p>

<p>While the recession has been hard across the board, graduates working in engineering and information technology have not been as hard hit as college graduates with less specific skills.</p>

<p>Despite the bad publicity about large bonuses at a few of the largest investment banks at the end of 2009, financial services more generally, particularly in home, construction, and personal loans, remains weak. Since this has traditionally been an area of high earnings for liberal arts grads, weakness here would tend to hit graduates of a diverse liberal arts college like Dartmouth with less technical degrees.</p>

<p>In the end of the day, the admittedly small change – ~5% swing between Harvey Mudd and Dartmouth between last and this year – could be caused by:</p>

<pre><code>* Stronger job market and pay for engineering and science grads

  • Pay holding up better in California for engineers than liberal arts grad in New York
  • A statistical fluctuation
    </code></pre>

<p>Let’s face it; these mid-career medians, particularly at elite schools, are the middle of a very broad distribution. For example, even though the median is $123,000/year for Dartmouth,</p>

<pre><code>* 25% of Dartmouth grads earn less than ~$85,000/year (25th percentile)

  • 25% earn more than ~$200,000/year at mid-career (75th percentile)
    </code></pre>

<p>The $3,000/year the Dartmouth median is behind that of Harvey Mudd College graduates is really not a large factor, compared to the huge diversity in pay between graduates at each school.</p>

<p>Interestingly enough, as we see typically for engineering schools, the Harvey Mudd grads have a somewhat narrow range of pay: the 25th percentile is ~$100,000/year and the 75th percentile is ~$150,000/year.</p>

<p>The upshot is that the Dartmouth education creates graduates with the potential to earn much more than the typical Harvey Mudd graduate, while the Harvey Mudd education puts a floor under earnings that is significantly higher than that at Dartmouth College. In a weak economy, having the floor is an advantage.</p>

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<p>Majors that pay:
Topping the list of best-paying degrees this year, petroleum engineers (my main field of study along with mining, soil science, and geo-hydrology whoop whoop!) earn a starting salary of $93,000 and a mid-level salary of $157,000. (Even my friend who took Geology at CSU East Bay makes at least 200+ a year)</p>

<p>That’s $49,000 more than the next most lucrative majors, aerospace engineering and chemical engineering, which both produce graduates earning a salary of around $108,000.</p>

<p>“Petroleum engineering has been an incredibly profitable sector for the last few years,” said Lee. “It’s a very cyclical field and depends largely on the price of oil, and we’re very much on an up cycle right now.”</p>

<p>Electrical engineering was the third-highest paying major on the list, with mid-level pay of $104,000 per year, followed by nuclear engineering, applied mathematics, biomedical engineering, physics and computer engineering.</p>

<p>But I don’t want to be an engineer! </p>

<p>If science and math aren’t your thing, don’t worry. There are plenty of other majors – many you wouldn’t expect – that will put you on the money-making track.</p>

<p>“People always think they have to be an engineer if they want to make good money down the line, but there are a lot of other majors that will help you find good careers with salaries that anyone would be comfortable living on,” said Lee.</p>

<p>A building construction major typically leads to a mid-career salary of more than $94,000, while mid-level government majors earn $87,300 on average. International relations, supply chain management and urban planning also boast average salaries of more than $80,000 a year.</p>

<p>Even majors like film production and zoology can help you land a good-paying job. While film-makers earn a starting salary of only $36,100 and recently-graduated zoology majors tend to make about $34,600, mid-level salaries come in at about $77,800 and $68,800, respectively</p>

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<p>Ahhh Kmazza…you have outdone yourself by providing all these interesting information.</p>

<p>But I still like to know how Cal Poly ended up where it is ???</p>

<p>I am a bit obsessed with a particular idea sometimes.</p>

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<p>It’s not surprising that Calpoly SLO is the best calstate seeing as it’s also the oldest. same goes with berkeley and LA. While in rankings berkeley is usually barely better than LA (in USNWR berkeley is the best public school whereas LA is tied with UVA for the #2 spot), it’s perceived to be much more prestigious (where in reality i don’t think that this is actually the case)</p>

<p>As far as the UCs being equal to each other, this is pretty false. Going to a school like UC Berkeley or UCLA (which have really low acceptance rates) is a sign of the students work ethic. After LA and Berks, it runs down to programs. UCSD may have, and i believe it does have, better programs than UCLA and Berkeley, but as a whole the university probably doesn’t. Same with UCD, UCR, and UCI.</p>

<p>it’s also funny to see people talking badly about UC Mercrd. it was only established 5 years ago. No UC became prestigious within this time frame, it took dozens of years. a few examples of the up and coming UCs are Davis, Irvine, and riverside. Will they be in the same ranks as UCLA/Berks in the years to come? Time will only tell.</p>

<p>Kids who go to Harvard, Yale, or Stanford don’t get far because they go to those schools, but rather those schools accept people who’d probably go far even if they didn’t go there. All going to one of those schools shows is a sign of strong intelligence/strong work ethic, and (arguably) a superior education by very highly regarded professors. Those people who go on to UCs/other more prestigious schools from calstates are the same people who would have gone to those schools anyway if they had the means (such as foreigners for example who can’t afford to pay the out-of-state tuition)</p>

<p>there are many people who go to calstates who just earn the BAs by doing the minimum amount of work, and then try to go into careers with just a BA. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with this, it’s just that both school systems, in general, appeal to different types of people.</p>

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<p>@Ahhh Kmazza…you have outdone yourself by providing all these interesting information.</p>

<p>Soz about the long post, it’s just what I do and try not to be too pedantic about it</p>

<p>@But I still like to know how Cal Poly ended up where it is ???</p>

<p>Hmmm, well grants for one, plus conversing with recruiters. It appears that certain fields feel they would have to provide less on the job training with Cal Poly graduates then ones from a UC, CSU, many LAC’s and even schools like Stanford on the undergrad level.</p>

<p>Even some of my friends who attended CP for Business: Information Systems did a workload that more closely resembled what someone would actually do on the job than what undergrads at UC’s and LAC’s learn. Plus the recruiting efforts at CP for Architects, Engineers, and AG students far exceeded such schools. </p>

<p>So let me see…pay 50 grand a year in hopes I make the ‘right’ connections through networking and marketing a colleges name vs. 7 grand a year while getting a well structured and more practical education. To me that’s a no brainer but hey people are free to go in debt for the next 10-20 years while I’ll be able to pay my schooling off in 1-2 years. The only reason I’d choose UCSB over CP is because SB is more fun IMO. I’d also choose Chico State for fun and a good education experience over UCI, UCSC, UCR, UCM, or UCSD. From my experiences in and out of the classroom I’d say the general quality of education at UCB undergrad is stronger than Stanford and UCLA undergrad. I’m sure I will get boooed and hissed at by some people and admit that Stanford and in some respects UCLA have better grad schools and are prettier campuses but next to that wasn’t all that impressed with their overall undergrad education for what I want to do. In fact I liked my classes and professors more at SMC than UCLA and at SMC were learning out of the same textbooks written, published and used at UCLA. I could care less about sports rivalries between the schools and referring to academics in my field of study and secondly how I would be treated. Plus I’m a library worker and would never want to write for a university and like to read much more interesting and way more in depth stuff from their holdings over dreadfully boring academics. YUK!!! I’ll leave that to the Ivy and UC kids in academic potty training for learning how to write the most jargon ridden turgid textbooks even if don’t get how to apply what they learned to consensus reality.</p>

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<p>California college ---- starting median — mid career median — for 2010-11</p>

<p>Harvey Mudd 68,900 126,000
Caltech 69,900 120,000
Stanford 60,200 119,000
Berkeley 53,100 109,000
Claremont Mckenna 58,700 104,000
Santa Clara U 54,400 104,000
USC 50,300 99,400
CalPoly 55,000 99,200
UCSB 47,600 96,400
SJSU 51,700 92,900
UCI 45,900 92,500
UCLA 50,700 91,600
UCD 49,000 90,700
UCR 42,700 88,500
USF 51,500 87,100
Pepperdine 46,700 86,600
UCSC 43,100 85,900
Sac State 44,600 84,500
UCSD 44,500 83,500
Chico State 46,900 83,000
CSULB 44,400 82,700
SFSU 46,400 82,600
SDSU 45,200 82,300
CSUF 42,500 81,800
CSUN 43,200 81,300
Loma Linda U 69,100 80,400
Fresno State 43,500 80,300
Hayward State 48,800 79,800
Chapman 40,900 78,500
Humboldt State 41,600 77,500</p>

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<p>I lol’ed at the OP saying "I asked my college counselor and he said that they are both universities. "</p>

<p>Did you think cal state universities were grocery stores beforehand? I mean…really? What did you think?</p>

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<p>Best Undergrad College Degrees By Salary Starting Median Pay Mid-Career Median Pay</p>

<p>Petroleum Engineering $93,000 $157,000
Aerospace Engineering $59,400 $108,000
Chemical Engineering $64,800 $108,000
Electrical Engineering $60,800 $104,000
Nuclear Engineering $63,900 $104,000
Applied Mathematics $56,400 $101,000
Biomedical Engineering $54,800 $101,000
Physics $50,700 $99,600
Computer Engineering $61,200 $99,500
Economics $48,800 $97,800
Computer Science $56,200 $97,700
Industrial Engineering $58,200 $97,600
Mechanical Engineering $58,300 $97,400
Building Construction $52,900 $94,500
Materials Science & Engineering $59,400 $93,600
Civil Engineering $53,500 $93,400
Statistics $50,000 $92,900
Finance $47,500 $91,500
Software Engineering $56,700 $91,300
Management Information Systems $50,900 $90,300
Mathematics $46,400 $88,300
Government $41,500 $87,300
Information Systems $49,300 $87,100
Construction Management $50,400 $87,000
Environmental Engineering $51,000 $85,500
Electrical Engineering Technology $55,500 $85,300
Supply Chain Management $49,400 $84,500
Mechanical Engineering Technology $53,300 $84,300
Chemistry $42,400 $83,700
Computer Information Systems $48,300 $83,100
International Relations $42,400 $83,000
Molecular Biology $40,200 $82,900
Urban Planning $41,600 $82,800
Industrial Design $42,100 $82,300
Geology $44,600 $82,200
Biochemistry $39,800 $82,000
Political Science $40,100 $81,700
Industrial Technology $49,400 $81,500
Food Science $48,500 $81,100
Information Technology $49,600 $79,300
Architecture $41,900 $78,400
Telecommunications $40,000 $78,300
Film Production $36,100 $77,800
Accounting $44,600 $77,500
Marketing $38,600 $77,300
Occupational Health and Safety $52,300 $77,000
Civil Engineering Technology $48,100 $75,600
International Business $42,600 $73,700
Advertising $37,800 $73,200
History $38,500 $73,000
Philosophy $39,100 $72,900
Biology $38,400 $72,800
Microbiology $40,600 $72,600
Fashion Design $37,700 $72,200
Communications $38,200 $72,200
Environmental Science $41,600 $71,600
Global & International Studies $38,400 $71,400
Geography $39,600 $71,200
Business $41,100 $70,600
Public Administration $39,000 $70,600
Landscape Architecture $43,200 $70,300
Biotechnology $47,500 $70,100
Zoology $34,600 $68,800
Drama $40,700 $68,300
Nursing $52,700 $68,200
Health Sciences $38,300 $68,100
Radio & Television $39,200 $67,800
Hotel Management $37,900 $67,600
English $37,800 $67,500
Forestry $37,000 $67,200
Journalism $35,800 $66,600
Hospitality & Tourism $36,200 $65,800
Literature $37,500 $65,700
Public Health $37,800 $65,700
Liberal Arts $35,700 $63,900
Public Relations $35,700 $63,400
Anthropology $36,200 $62,900
Psychology $35,300 $62,500</p>

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<p>Here’s a great story from CC Archives dating back 6 years ago to 2004; The guy who even posted underneath what this guy wrote to share was blown away and thought it was one of the best posts he ever read here at that point. This was this persons first and last post here on CC and think beautifully describes ones real experiences…</p>

<p>While still in high school I attend UCSD, and returned to the school two decades later for graduate level courses. After graduating high school I entered UCSC, then transferred up to CAL. A decade later I attended Cal Poly, aka “Cow Poly”. All of these schools were… and still are… EXCELLENT! In many ways I believe Poly is the best of the four for undergrad if, and only if, the school offers a major in an area you truly are interested in. I also think much depends upon your style of learning: Poly tends to be pragmatic and focused upon the details of doing. The UC schools, at least in the majors I studied, tended to teach toward deep thinking and a baseline for graduate level work. In general, the students at Cal Poly were more focused upon exiting college and getting a good job (Poly is especially great for after college job connections). In contrast, many of my peers at CAL were focused upon grad school.</p>

<p>The best way I know to contrast Cal Poly’s “learn by doing” approach with the more conceptual “think about it” approach of the three UC’s is to write about breakfast cereal (I know this might sound strange, but stay with me :-)</p>

<p>At Cal Poly SLO, the students might be asked to identify the need for a new breakfast cereal and then develop the product to final. So, we have the Ag students growing the wheat and harvesting it. The Food Sci students will research and perhaps formulate the recipe. The Engineering students will design and build the tools needed to manufacture the cereal (and probably the harvesting equipment and package equipment too!), the Graphic Arts students will design the packages and ads to sell the cereal, the Biz students will design and implement the marketing program (as well as survey to decide what kind of cereal the consumer wants and where to price the product), Architecture students will design the buildings the cereal is sold in, etc. Oh, I forgot to mention that the soil science students will be working on the prime soil mix to maximize the wheat production, or turn the wheat byproduct into a premium top mulch. And the dairy students will be intent on raising the finest cows so we can put milk on the cereal!</p>

<p>In contrast, at all three UCs, the students might be asked to ponder the implications of breakfast cereal as it relates to life in the US as compared to the rest of the World. We might research the impact of packaged products on the social fabric of the family, or look at the health impact of cereals on man and/or the environment. Or, we might write a thesis on the optimum cereal for distribution to 3rd World nations in times of famine. We’d probably need to do a semester of study abroad to gather data on this. At UCSC we might be asked to imagine a world where breakfast cereal was not an option… and then do an in-depth presentation on how and why this would be (backed up with footnotes and research data).</p>

<p>I think you can understand how Cal Poly SLO is extremely focused upon practical education. This is not to say that Poly was any easier (or more difficult), than the UC’s. Rather, it is a different approach and perhaps guiding philosophy to undergraduate college education.</p>

<p>I think it valuable for interested students to consider that the “feel” of all of these schools is very different. By “feel”, I mean the sense one has when walking around campus. This comes from who the students are, of course. But there is also the vastly different natural surroundings, as well as the towns where the schools are located. SLO still has a college town feel with a heavy ag influence (I suggest you stroll through downtown SLO during a Thursday night Farmer’s market to see if this is what you want). UCSD is in a wonderful location above the beaches of La Jolla, yet close to all the positives… and negatives… of So Cal. Santa Cruz has a feel unique to that area — sort of a surf meets the Redwoods and Banana Slugs sort of thing. Berkeley is, well… everything you can imagine. And perhaps more. It is the most political of all the schools. And all that the Bay Area has to offer is easy access on public transportation. It is a very forward thinking, forward moving part of the country. Truly a fabulous learning environment that encourages students to be aware and engaged in a macro sense.</p>

<p>Best advice I can think of is to visit these schools in person!</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>Just thought I’d drop in to correct this, Mudd is a liberal arts college, not an engineering-only school. Mudd offers math/CS/bio/physics as well, as well as off-campus majors at the 5C’s. Engineering is probably still the most popular major, but it’s not even close to being 100% at Mudd.</p>

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<p>So…other than UCLA and UCB for a finance major, what schools would you reccomend on CSU and UC???<br>
I want to focus on FINANCE specifically, and UC’s dont offer that…</p>

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<p>Ok, well finance is usually an ‘option’ (2-3 classes) given at a number of colleges under a bachelors level Business Admin degree since ‘Finance’ is generally thought of as a masters or PhD level pursuit or capstone if you will. I think you are on to something though on having a better idea what you want to do on the bachelors level so specifying more than just a BA in Business Admin I’d personally recommend.</p>

<p>Quick story… My experience when was new to LA, I use to have sort of a negative perception towards CSUN. That was my ignorance prior to knowing anything about it but after analyzing the college, I became rather impressed with the quality of programs offered even if seemed strange to me at first how they arranged them. Anyways CSUN is one of the few that offers an actual BS in Finance which isn’t bad if what you are interested in. There is a mix of management, marketing, finance, investments, law, econ, even real estate. There is a lil corporate finance and law but think if you are into that think SJSU offers such an option. I also heard that CSULB has a good BA/BS whatever in Business Econ. but it’s supposedly hard to get into and really don’t know that much about it. </p>

<p>The UC level bachelors Business Econ degree I think is the best which ends up being one of the most difficult to get into and do is UCSB’s degree in it. UCSB is also the UC and one of the few statistical warehouses for actuary science in the west. It’s pretty math intensive but IMO I think one of the best type finance degrees on the UC level is UCSB’s B.S. in Financial Mathematics and Statistics whether or not you want to be an actuary. There looks like there are even scholarships available if are serious and smart.</p>

<p>B.S. in Financial Mathematics and Statistics</p>

<p>Financial Mathematics and Statistics focuses on the pricing and hedging of financial assets, portfolio management and the evaluation of financial risks, insurance applications. The tools of modern financial analysis rely on a thorough understanding of economic theory, mathematics, probability and statistics.</p>

<p>The BS major in Financial Mathematics and Statistics (FMS) at UCSB is unique to California and one of the very few such programs in the nation. The major was opened in Winter 2004 as a joint major between the Department of Statistics and Applied Probability and the Department of Mathematics, with the cooperation of the Department of Economics. The major is already a remarkable success: in Spring 2009, 71 students were pursuing FMS pre-major or major with a graduating class of 24.</p>

<p>This challenging and highly rewarding degree prepares students for careers in diverse areas of the financial industry or for graduate school. Past program graduates were hired by Merrill Lynch, Fisher Investments, etc, while others continued into graduate school. In fact, the Department of Statistics and Applied Probability recently introduced the PhD Emphasis in Financial Mathematics and Statistics, focusing on research.</p>

<p>Some of the strongest undergraduates in the FMS major are supported by The Robert and Barbara Lowes Scholarships. There are opportunities for FMS undergraduates to pursue summer internships or directed studies with faculty at the Center for Research in Financial Mathematics and Statistics (CRFMS). (link to [url=&lt;a href=“http://www.pstat.ucsb.edu/crfms/]CRFMS[/url”&gt;CRFMS]CRFMS[/url</a>] ).</p>

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<p>Mr.grape- Not sure if this is what you mean by finance, but my roomate is a biz-econ/ accounting major @ ucsb. UCSB btw, is I believe the only uc that offers accounting. Now in terms of recruiting, last weekend my roomate attended a formal dinner/social, “meet the firms” event, where everyone wore business attire (suit and tie), and got a chance to speak with and network the accounting firms.</p>

<p>This week, my friend has secured 4 interviews with what are known as the “big four” accounting firms, which is not too shabby, in fact, its incredible. I’d say there is a very high probability he will have a well paying job lined up before he graduates at the end of this academic year.</p>

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<p>@Braden </p>

<p>Thanks for the clarification. </p>

<p>So Mudd’s programs are more like a general tech university such as Cal Poly. It’s impressive to know that they are ranked so high earning power wise being a well rounded science/liberal arts school. </p>

<p>So I guess you don’t need to be an engineering grad factory to rank high. </p>

<p>@beybhy</p>

<p>Minor factoid for your amusement, it turned out San Jose state is the oldest CSU and also the oldest college in California.</p>

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<p>Mudd is really nothing like CalPoly. Although Mudd is classified as a LAC, the institution itself focuses recruiting freshman towards a science and engineering path which is it’s primary concentration within the college. A US student still has to take GE requirements so a Mudd student is granted permission to take classes at any of the 5 college complex. Mudd ranks so high in earnings because the majority enter engineering or science careers compared to the diversity amongst many other colleges. Mudd is only called a LACOLLEGE because isn’t a University that maintains or facilitates research and doesn’t offer PhD’s.</p>

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<p>Well as a transfer undergrad with a decent GPA of 3.67 if I may say so myself, I am not too impressed of the finance programs that UC’s offer. </p>

<p>The Economics and Accounting at UCSB I have heard of but to be honest, I don’t want to do anything with accounting though it can lead to a secure job. (got an A in both Financial and Managerial Accounting). </p>

<p>Financial Mathematics and Statistics probably will lead to a nice job, but then again I am not a fan of math though I aced Statistics and currently acing Business Calc…</p>

<p>The Haas School of Business offers great entrance into the finance world with many big recruits but I don’t want to spend another year at a cc to finish just those for a chance at Haas…</p>

<p>UCLA is a great school for its prestige, but there finance programs are lack luster…</p>

<p>The CSU’s on the other hand offer BA/Finance majors which to me is better if I really want to study finance IMO.</p>

<p>Cal Poly SLO even has a portfolio you can manage and other tools which I find the best out of all other CSU’s and UC’s…</p>

<p>Other than that as a finance major, there isn’t much opportunities in California…
Depressing.=[</p>

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<p>Well for Acing Financial and Managerial Accounting at your age is quite commendable. If you can do that you prolly could do well handling UCSB’s PSTAT classes. Realize Financial Math and Stats is not Accounting like Bus Econ/w Accounting is which I kinda figured…and yes such a degree would lead to a well paying job and is still small and relatively unknown…for now…since is still fairly new.</p>

<p>As I’ve mentioned CSUN is the only CSU that offers an actual BS in FINANCE not a BA/Finance concentration like the majority of other CSU’s. That may be the most direct way to obtain your degree but you would really have to go look at the classes or I could just post for you.</p>

<p>In regards to the PolyTech CSU’s, Pomona is the larger (entailing better in peoples minds even though is just different) business program but my friends did like SLO’s Business program.</p>

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<p>Kmazza, thanks for that info… I looked up CSUN and wish I knew that school offered that before I applied for Spring this semester… Do you know how good the recruits are at CSUN as opposed to the other supposedly good business programs at CSU’s? -Im slightly interested but have never heard of CSUN beforehand…</p>

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<p>Haha well LA is pretty lackadaisical laissez-faire and your pretty much on your own to look for where the jobs are at. CSUN is a big school and recognized and esteemed very much for its business program then many other great programs there like journalism, film, anthro, geography etc. Those programs have become very competitive these days to get into especially business classes. People who go there seem to really like their classes and professors and employers like CSUN students. San Fernando itself is a pretty huge valley with a lot of media businesses plus everything else. Northridge area is a nice part of the valley and by car is a half hour from UCLA, depending on traffic, 40 minutes to the beach or LA, which is a HUGE area realize with traffic 24/7!</p>

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<p>I don’t know what the **** kmazza is babbling about, as usual, and I have no idea how or why he thinks he’s got all this incredibly granular, campus-specific information at the ripe old age of 39, but what the **** ever. Moving on:</p>

<p>I’d stick with SLO, mrgrape. It’s got the highest ranked business / finance program of the CSU’s (CSUN doesn’t rate). Otherwise, naturally, you’re not going to be making a bad move should you shoot for UCB, UCLA or UCSD.</p>

<p>And there’s always out of state – shoot for the moon, land amongst the stars, that whole bit. :D</p>