<p>Nothing teaches humility like being the person who is in charge of the Mountain Dew!!!</p>
<p>Yes, and everyone ran to get the mountain dew, and that includes the rocket scientists from MIT. It was just the way it was done. People have seen too many movies, I sometimes think. B-) </p>
<p>@alh I am not surprised if you misread me. I am a liberal but my liberalism is informed by empirical evidence. Does it make sense? My aim is actually quite simple: What can we do to help the younger generation breaking into the world of work. To do so I need to understand what employers want, thus the Bock interviews and the Manzi article have significance for me. No, I have no particular attachment to I banking or consulting or Google for that matter. I do find those Bain and BCG candidates truly exceptional and I am very proud of them, but we do not live in Lake Woebegone.</p>
<p>To facilitate and to encourage others to open up, this is what I did when mine were young:</p>
<p>1) I encouraged them to keep their options open by taking courses for as long as they can at the highest level, focusing specifically on English, science and math, and any weakness in these subjects would be dealt with promptly.
2) I also encourage them to participate in physical activities to serve as a counter-balance to their academic work. I discourage flip-flopping…so they ended up doing two activities each, for a min of seven years or longer.
3) After fulfilling their side of the obligation as stated above, they were allowed to do what they please, within reason. No tiger parenting here.</p>
<p>This is the result:</p>
<p>1) They were accepted into their first choice program, a quant-heavy business course that is considered one of the very best in the country. I believe their long-term commitment to their ECs made the difference in gaining admission.
2) As students, they were average for the class going in and coming out. While they did well in their minors (Since 40% of their courses were in humanities and social sciences, they did find those classmates “easy-picking”) they were out-classed by their more accomplished classmates in the more “g” loaded classes such as finance.
3) Because they were not top students, they did not get any offer while in school, but were working within 6 months after graduation. I believe the reputation of both the school and the program helped them secure those precious interviews. They found many companies were asking for specific majors- engineering, computer science and business-or you are out of luck.
4) After working for a while, one decided to re-enroll in a post-graduation course of study in order to change career. Once more, she found her new classmates, all university graduates, to be less than impressive. (Among other things, she had to prod them along to complete the group assignments). While she had a little more than a 3.2 GPA at her previous school, she had no problem getting a 4.0 at this other place. She was the first to get a co-op placement, and had a new job lined up before the school year was out.</p>
<p>I would love to hear from other parents and their experience. @blossom Please keep the suggestions coming</p>
<p>I thought you had been talking really big picture, trying to demonstrate the inequities in the system; how your tribe positions you for future employment. I pretty much already posted my educational philosophy on the tiger mom thread and don’t have anything to add here. My kids got jobs because of credentials, professors/mentors, networking of peers, especially older classmates. </p>
<p>Two of my kids have jobs pretty much unrelated to their fields of study. One has a job that didn’t exist when he started college. It would have been impossible to train for it.</p>
<p>My kids both had jobs lined up before college graduation. Both had 3.5 + GPA’s, work experience, good references and made use of leads provided by their departments and career fairs. Both were multi sport athletes in high school to balance academics and were also expected to work during the summers during college, They were hard working and well liked by their coworkers (and got good recommendations, which tied in with both seeming to have some level of humility and likeablity)…</p>
<p>During college, one of my older kids’ older classmates who had already graduated and worked at Bain, forwarded his resume but they would not give him an interview because his GPA was less than 3.7 (it was 3.6 something at the time). He did go three rounds with Google earlier this year (after being out of college for almost 5 years) but was not made an offer. He was a little frustrated because they approached him, put him through lots of interviewing (including an all day thing with 5 different interviewers whose decision to make an offer apparently had to be unanimous). He was still being considered for one of their other offices when he got an offer from one of their competitors. He has said he probably would not go through all that with Google again if they ever approached him again. He seems happy where he landed .</p>
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<p>And this is exactly why a lot of companies look for candidates with good critical thinking skills, analytical abilities, and adaptability to change, more than a set of credentials that demonstrate that they can do X, Y, and Z.</p>
<p>Agree about adaptability, possessing good critical thinking skills and analytical ability. My older kid has definitely adapted and changed direction over the years. </p>
<p>If nothing else, our generation knows THAT’s true. </p>
<p>Funny. I know 7 google employees. 5 are seasoned pros who boast advanced degrees from prestigious schools. 2 are hipster wanna be–also with prestigious dregrees. </p>
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I am a big picture kind of person and I know inequality exist. No demonstration is necessary. All I want to see is that all are given an equal opportunity to succeed based on ability. I do not expect equal outcomes like some liberals do. </p>
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I also agree, and I think this is an area we parents can do something about. My concern is that a lot of companies only want to hire people with some experience, even among the young hires (one to two years of experience seems to be the norm). Does that mean they can only keep plugging away until someone decides to give them a break?
If Cappelli is right, this job recession will not be going away soon. Depressing.
<a href=“Inquirer.com: Philadelphia local news, sports, jobs, cars, homes”>Inquirer.com: Philadelphia local news, sports, jobs, cars, homes;
<p>Inefficiency in matching job seekers to employers (as described in that linked article) is nothing new.</p>
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<p>So we go back to providing all excellent prenatal care, or even further back than that? It seems to me you are just revealing your own affinity group at this point. That’s okay, perhaps inevitable. I had hoped the discussion was going to move beyond limiting world view based on affinity group. : (</p>
<p>Talking about how to help kids get jobs is good concrete advice in my opinion. Mine had it easy because of their affinity group. Sure they worked really hard, and I don’t want to diminish their accomplishments. I’m very proud. But they had it easy relatively speaking. And I taught them that.</p>
<p>People don’t want to hear the advice on helping kids get good jobs (regardless of the affinity group). When someone I know in real life asks me to counsel their kid- I’m always happy to do it. But I can guarantee you that either the kid or the parent will end up angry or aggravated with me.</p>
<p>Everyone wants to hear, “just go about your business, hang out with your frat brothers every night, there will be some magical “networking” that will take place and you’ll find a great job in SF and you’ll live in a cool Victorian house with 5 other guys and take great vacations.” Nobody wants to hear, “you’re interested in museum management? Here’s a list of 50 historical societies which hire entry level tour guides, and 100 art museums which hire entry level marketing and PR assistants. This is the contact information for the person who makes hiring decisions- go email each of them with your resume in Times New Roman, 12 point type. When you get to Kansas City with your fantastic job working for the Nelson Atkins museum, make sure to “pay it forward” in lieu of thanking me”.</p>
<p>Nobody wants to hear what it takes to launch. And it’s not because Blossom is so cranky and mean. All my colleagues say the same things. Whether recruiting targets (meaning the actual numbers of the people that large corporations plan to hire) are up or down… nobody wants to hear what it takes.</p>
<p>Kids don’t want to hear that to get a good job in the media industry means starting out in Cedar Rapids before you get considered for the presidency of ESPN. Kids don’t want to hear that to get a good job as a policy expert at a think tank in Washington you need to start out indexing and foot-noting legislation in Springfield IL or Albany NY. Kids don’t want to hear that what they see on TV sitcoms- 20 somethings living in gorgeous apartments and drinking in bars every night does not reflect reality. If they get an entry level job at a hedge fund where they can afford the gorgeous apartment, they’ll be working every night so good bye bar scene. And if they get an entry level job as a claims analyst for a P&C insurance company (a perfectly wonderful way to launch btw) they’ll be making spaghetti and having friends over for pot luck if they’re living in a high rent city.</p>
<p>Start job hunting in October of Senior year? Nobody wants to hear that. They’ve got a thesis to write and parties to go to and spring break in Mexico to plan. Check in with Career Services sophomore year to do some simulated interviews and get feedback? I tell the kids, “your parents are paying for these counselors anyway. Why not let them earn their salary?”</p>
<p>How many college kids do you know who are looking for a serious career type job when they graduate and still have obnoxious photos of themselves up on Facebook that anyone can see?</p>
<p>People, this isn’t rocket science!!!</p>
<p>Great post, blossom. Living it, with 2 seniors 
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But some of the how and why they are inefficient is new. Again, here is Cappelli:
<a href=“http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052970203554104576654620869708338”>http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052970203554104576654620869708338</a></p>
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How about just decent K-12 for all? That was all I had growing up and it was sufficient. Power asymmetry is my unified theory of everything from personal relationships to international relations, but you are right, so let’s move on… </p>
<p>Some poster up thread mentioned Bain. One of my kids requested an interview and was rejected. These highly sought-after interviews are available only to students on the Dean’s List. I now can see what the school was really doing-rank ordering the students for these companies to pick from. For example, the students were not allowed to take courses part time, almost all courses were compulsory etc. during the first two years where recruiting took place.</p>
<p>To make Dean’s List, students have to average 80% (A) for all courses taken. This article explains how the system generally works, and I would add that my kids’ program requires an admission average that is about 10% higher, but they adjust upward the average grade given to 66-70% range (B-) to compensate. (The percentage of A given out, however, is strictly controlled).
<a href=“http://occ.crescentschool.org/geography/worldissues/Articles/university.htm”>http://occ.crescentschool.org/geography/worldissues/Articles/university.htm</a></p>
<p>If folks are interested, I will, in a future thread, explain further why I raised mine the way I did, and what I would do differently knowing what I know now. (hint:Some of @blossom’s recommendations fits in here). </p>
<p>My oldest had to go to Canada to do what she wanted to do. She was hired for the company she’d been working at as a personal assistant the last three years of school. For those of you who don’t know what a PA does: she was basically a glorified errand girl. But she did get to sit in on meetings. </p>
<p>People said she was crazy to do this job she got from her first internship for all that time. H said. No. Do this. It’s a really great career opportunity. (It was getting coffee, getting dry cleaning.). </p>
<p>She told them she was graduating in the fall of senior year. “Great!” Her boss said. “Let’s figure out what’s next for you here. Also, can you find someone to replace yourself by the spring?” </p>
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<p>Not really new. Even decades ago, the usual thought was that employers listed excessive requirements based on the ideal-but-probably-nonexistent applicant (but only a few requirements were absolutely required), so that applicants would apply everywhere, flooding the employers with poorly matched resumes. Of course, HR offices back then just looked for resume key words to decide which of the flood to pass on to the hiring departments.</p>
<p>Also, just like now, pre-existing skills were strongly favored over ability to learn new skills, since employers often find it much more difficult to assess learning ability than pre-existing skills, even though high learning ability tends to be more valuable in the medium to long term.</p>
<p>Another source of inefficiency is that the selection and hiring process heavily relies on the sales skills of the applicant, even though sales skills are not the primary skills needed for many kinds of jobs.</p>
<p>The Canadian universities still grade hard, like the science and quantitative classes of some state flagships and elite privates in the US. Grade inflation exists in many of the Ivies, however (especially in the humanities). B-/C definitely isn’t the class average for English or sociology majors at pretty much any Ivy (except maybe Cornell).</p>
<p>“Another source of inefficiency is that the selection and hiring process heavily relies on the sales skills of the applicant, even though sales skills are not the primary skills needed for many kinds of jobs.”</p>
<p>The ability to portray oneself well, show that one can work with others, speak eloquently, etc are very important abilities. I’m sure you probably lump them all under “sales skills.” </p>