<p>Oh, I am sure it is abused. The question is how significant the abuse is. Looking at the wage chart UCB linked earlier, lower wage doesn’t bear out. They are not earning signifocantly lower wage inspite of soft skills foreign workers generally lack.</p>
<p>I’m not sure how significant the abuse is at this point, tbh. But, it’s not as if they are trying to get less H1Bs in . You have to be careful with this stuff, imho. </p>
<p>What I’d like to know is how many more scientists than needed we are producing excluding biologists. I am sure there are very few foreign biologists hired.</p>
<p>Let me put it to you another way. I think we should offer citizenship to those qualified for H1Bs in areas where we need them. I think those are the kinds of immigrants we need here. But, I do not think we should bring in H1Bs to lower the wages of US workers. There needs to be a tighter control on that. </p>
<p>Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it. </p>
<p>that is all.</p>
<p>Once we have the number of hard scientists produced, we can have an intelligent conversation on the topic. We’ll know if there’s need or not. Lumping together biologists and other scientists doesn’t tell you much.</p>
<p>yes, and once we figure out how many hard scientists are produced, I’m sure we will now why google hires who they hire as well. </p>
<p>carry on.</p>
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<p>I am not interested in immigration issue. I think we should educate kids better on math/science so they will be competitive against anyone. We can leave the border wide open and not worry since our kids will beat them all.</p>
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<p>My guess would be there is a shortage. Google or Apple isn’t paying appreciably lower wages to H1B hires.</p>
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<p>Yeah. that’s not really how that actually works. they will take the lower paid workers who can do the work. </p>
<p>As I said, “Those who do not study the past are doomed to repeat it.”</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.h1base.com/visa/work/h1basereviewsgoogle/ref/1703/”>http://www.h1base.com/visa/work/h1basereviewsgoogle/ref/1703/</a></p>
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<p>These jobs? SOME might need an H1B. On the other hand, Sales Management is really not something we need this for… </p>
<p>You can drink all the kool aid you want. But, I’m not thirsty.</p>
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<p><a href=“https://alum.mit.edu/abbrev-degree.vm”>https://alum.mit.edu/abbrev-degree.vm</a> says that MNG = Master of Engineering.</p>
<p><a href=“MEng program – MIT EECS”>http://www.eecs.mit.edu/academics-admissions/undergraduate-programs/6-p-meng-program</a> says that it is only available to MIT undergraduates, which does not fit the usual pattern of people who started their US careers on H1B visas (more common is home country undergraduate, US graduate degree for those working in direct hire situations; those working for cheap contracting shops may have only foreign degrees).</p>
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<p>If you look at <a href=“http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2014-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx”>http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2014-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx</a> , most appear to be in the computing industry. But it is also quite clear that the biggest users H1B are contracting and outsourcing employers who do pay relatively low rates (Infosys, Tata, Wipro, etc.), rather than direct hire employers who pay well (Microsoft, Google, Qualcomm, Oracle, etc.). While the claim is misdirected, the use of H1B visas by the (low end) contracting and outsourcing employers is unlikely what the visas are intended to be for, while making the shortage worse for direct hire employers.</p>
<p>An H1B reform that made it more difficult to use them for contracting and outsourcing would be desirable, freeing up more for the direct hiring of top end international talent that we are educating, but it seems that few of those yelling about H1B visas in the political area say anything other than “more!” or “less!”.</p>
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<p>I agree. Outsourcing companies are exploiting the system. For direct hires, they are probably looking for the best qualified and often find them in H1B hires. That’s what many grad schools are finding, too. Many well qualified applicants are from overseas. That’s where our kids can make a dent if properly educated. Our math education is neglected early on starting 1st-2nd grade, it’s hard to catch up. It’s no fault of kids. Quantitative reasoning/concept was not properly developed before any formulas/equations were introduced. Without that, math becomes unrelatable. is there such a word unrelatable?</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.h1base.com/visa/work/H1BaseReviewsApple/ref/1701/”>http://www.h1base.com/visa/work/H1BaseReviewsApple/ref/1701/</a></p>
<p>this is apple:</p>
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<p>Apple is only 20th for H!B petitions. But, I see plenty of things on there for US workers to do.</p>
<p>@ucbalumnus - That website is for alumni, not an official MIT academic site. It includes a lot of degrees not offered by MIT. Furthermore, it does not explain what is MLNG.</p>
<p>The official ones are:</p>
<p><a href=“Welcome! < MIT”>Welcome! < MIT;
<p><a href=“http://www.eecs.mit.edu/academics-admissions/undergraduate-programs/6-p-meng-program/requirements-admissions[/url]”>http://www.eecs.mit.edu/academics-admissions/undergraduate-programs/6-p-meng-program/requirements-admissions</a></p>
<p>Sorry to all for derailing.</p>
<p>Get in a top school and do well may still the best way to get into Google, like my son did.</p>
<p>In the Summer of 2013 I had an opportunity to discuss the topic of this thread with a Google Program Manager who is responsible for hiring decisions for a large number of people. This person actually has a Social Science degree from a good public university. I asked if going to an Ivy would give an advantage when looking for a job at Google. The answer was - we do not like Ivy graduates too much here. Our best engineers are not from the Ivies. However if your student-athlete plays her sport at the Ivy for 4 years and graduates with a decent GPA - we will grant her an interview.</p>
<p>Brown claims that Google hires many of their graduates because “they think differently”. Last year 13 graduates went to Google. But Google-NYC recruits at Rutgers. So it seems they really take graduates from a wide variety of schools.</p>
<p>Another thing I noticed is Bock’s suggestion that Google uses a structured interview to filter applicants. McMaster University’s medical school here in Ontario uses structured interview and is considered a pioneer in the field (they found regular interviews to be ineffective). I do not believe Google uses only structured interviews and nothing else. No assessment tool is that good yet Bock seems to imply just that.</p>
<p>His idea of intellectual humility comes straight from Charles Murray. In a three part series for the WSJ, Murray said:</p>
<p>“The encouragement of wisdom requires a special kind of education. It requires first of all recognition of one’s own intellectual limits and fallibilities – in a word, humility. This is perhaps the most conspicuously missing part of today’s education of the gifted. Many high-IQ students, especially those who avoid serious science and math, go from kindergarten through an advanced degree without ever having a teacher who is dissatisfied with their best work and without ever taking a course that forces them to say to themselves, “I can’t do this.” Humility requires that the gifted learn what it feels like to hit an intellectual wall, just as all of their less talented peers do, and that can come only from a curriculum and pedagogy designed especially for them.” </p>
<p>Bock is too slick for my liking.</p>
<p>"I know parents here get all testy about companies which ask for SAT scores- “I’m 50 and no company has ever asked me”-- ok, got it. “my kid is brilliant but a bad test taker and it’s not fair that he’ll get screened out of his desired career”-- ok, well there are plenty of companies in your kids desired industry that likely don’t ask for SAT’s.</p>
<p>This is an affinity group (albeit not necessarily an important one), exhibiting Kahan’s “motivated cognition”. There is nothing evil or immoral about it. They are simply looking after their personal self-interest, while empirical evidence is totally against them."</p>
<p>I’m unclear how when someone recounts their own personal experience, they are “looking after their personal self-interest.” If I say I’ve never experienced X, that isn’t saying that i think X doesn’t or has never existed, or that people who claim X are wrong. I’m simply saying I’ve never experienced it. </p>
<p>You don’t see it because it is not in your vested interest to see it. That is the very definition of " motivated cognition".</p>
<p>Yes, the company I represent is an affinity group. All things being equal, we prefer to hire young people who demonstrate proficiency in arithmetic, reading comprehension, and standard English composition.</p>
<p>What exactly is your point- that we are enforcing some moral code by NOT hiring people who don’t know the difference between a numerator and a denominator? That we are expressing some atavistic zenophobia by screening out people who cannot write a grammatical paragraph?</p>