<p>I really hope your house truly isn't one of the more tolerant houses, because if it is, then the houses you consider "less tolerant" must be very very prejudiced.</p>
<p>Who're you talking to on that one? I'm not even in a house... </p>
<p>Aha! So now the problem is social elitism? I somehow believe that is your core complaint much more than your other, previous arguments.</p>
<p>Oh, I have nothing against any groups besides socially elitist ones.</p>
<p>I posted that before I saw your other post. Clearly, it referred to Cerebral Assassin who said his house was one of the "more tolerant" ones.</p>
<p>Social elitism encompasses discrimination based on sexual orientation as well as conformity issues.</p>
<p>CerebralAssassin, how could you say that certain houses are "less tolerant" in the first place unless you concede that certain houses attract types that tend to be less tolerant? Do you know everyone in the houses and his stance on gay people? If certain houses have a history of or are known for being less tolerant, why is that?</p>
<p>WHAT IS THIS THREAD!??!?! One of the most dead-end threads ever. It's just a semantics battle now; we've all made our points.</p>
<p>It's not a semantics issue. CerebralAssassin clearly thought homosexuality was a lifestyle choice.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>"Ironically" should not be in there because there's no irony. Homosexuality is not something people "have chosen."</p>
<p>We've successfully reduced the argument to: is there a greater genetic predisposition to homosexuality or to going Greek?
Congratulations, we've officially entered intellectual hell. I'm sure Bienen would be very proud of us.</p>
<p>All but one of us have reached consensus and I'm more than willing to let this thread die.</p>
<p>By using alcoholism as an example, I wasn't referring to Greek life at all. You misunderstood. I could've used heart disease instead.</p>
<p>Btw, were you referring to homosexuality when you said "lifestyle choice"?</p>
<p>aaaaaand that's why Northwestern's debate team is top notch</p>
<p>OK, so I'm an NU RD applicant, and there are things I like about the school and a lot of things that give me serious pause. Greek life is one of them.</p>
<p>I understand that I don't have to get involved if I don't want to (thanks for the link to "Why I did not rush") but I'm concerned that I will have to make a conscious decision about whether or not to "go Greek" and I'm concerned that Greek life fragments the student body, even if fraternities, in and of themselves, are tight-knit, social communities.</p>
<p>Why should sanjenferrer feel he has to make known his sexual orientation as a prospective fraternity member? I understand making known other situations that affect house life and others' conduct (i.e. food and pet allergies), but why aspects of personal life that the applicant has no control over?</p>
<p>Fraternities should be screened for personality fit, not matters of identity and background. I can't imagine that prospective fraternity members are asked to disclose political affiliations, financial situations, and other factors that have no bearing on one's personality. I imagine some would have a lot of trouble discussing these items if they came up.</p>
<p>If sanjenferrer decides to rush, he'll be attracted to fraternities that appeal to who he is and his personality. The fraternity members will like sanjenferrer for his "fit" in the house. Both will be happy to have each other. Why should it matter that he is gay? Or is the Greek system more accepting of some than it is of others?</p>
<p>To answer your question...for kind of the last time...you are 90% right. It SHOULD be all about personality and for the most part it is. But in the Greek system AS IN SOCIETY, there are people who are not okay with a lot of things, even if a person can't help them, or if there is nothing wrong with them in the first place- it's just a fact of life.</p>
<p>People are by no means required to disclose personal information before rushing, and can easily have a successful rush without doing so. BUT if a homosexual (or anyone else) is worried that if some personal factor comes out at a later date people MIGHT have a problem with it- especially considering he or she will be living with these people and around them for the majority of their time- it CAN be helpful to try and suss out which environments will be most forgiving beforehand. But I would say in no way is the Greek system at NU particularly homophobic. And its effect of "fragmenting" NU life is greatly exaggerated.</p>
<p>I see where you're coming from.</p>
<p>Smyeth: "I'm concerned that I will have to make a conscious decision about whether or not to "go Greek.""</p>
<p>The decision to not go Greek doesn't need to have any more thought behind it than your decision to not join the hockey team or the tennis team or the gaming club. If you're not interested, then don't do it. No one at Northwestern will really care. I don't know why you think it needs to be such a philosophical decision about Greek-itude in general.</p>
<p>"I'm concerned that Greek life fragments the student body, even if fraternities, in and of themselves, are tight-knit, social communities."</p>
<p>Even though you've been told repeatedly that it is not as though someone who goes Greek is unable or forbidden to form friendships with anyone else of their own choosing. It no more fragments the student body than the presence of the hockey team or tennis team or gaming club or other organizations / shared interests that students either join, or don't. </p>
<p>Anyway, I really think you're overthinking the whole Greek thing at Northwestern, smyeth. Do you like NU? If so, great. If not, fine - everyone has different tastes. If you like NU, then generally speaking you'll like the student body that NU attracts. Some will be Greek. Some others won't. No one's going to snub you at the lunch table if you don't have the proper Greek letters. You'll find people you like, and people you don't care for, just like everyone else. I really don't know where you get the idea that it fragments NU life. In what way do you think it would manifest itself?</p>
<p>As usual, I'm going to completely agree with DFleish's sentiments. The "cultural fragmentation of NU social life" is, in my humble opinion, a conspiracy cooked up by the anti-Greek community. Of the student body, 1/3 is Greek, 1/2 is not but still goes to Greek events, and 1/6 has a blinding rage towards the Greeks...my scientific findings, of course.</p>
<p>Delta Chi throws Bash at the Beach, a party on NU's gorgeous North Beach for the Freshmen during New Student Week. ZBT famously has a party for Dance Marathon (or another philanthropy, I'm unsure). SAE and A Phi (a sorority) created a Haunted House for charity that students and Evanstonians could walk through. Lambda Chi has Watermelon Bust (its a watermelon olympics, and its pretty cool). AEPi has Hot Dog related activiites for an entire week. Sig Ep lets you pay some money to take a baseball bat to a rundown car in the name of charity. etc.
The philanthropies and events bring non-Greeks and Greeks together under the banner of fun and supporting some great causes. NU's vibrant and tolerant (of non-Greeks and of minorities in general) Greek community I think strikes an excellent balance between the southern state schools that are dominated by Greek life and small LACs that don't have a greek system, but have a unified student body.</p>
<p>I will also say that the fact that rush is delayed makes it very easy for everyone at NU to find their own group of friends before being "thrown" into the Greek system. So whatever you decide come winter, you will already have started to make a life for yourself at NU, and your entire social scene won't be determined by whether or not you choose to go Greek.</p>
<p>sanjoseferrer said: "I'm criticizing Greek houses that are homophobic, but my bias against the Greek system isn't just because of that (I mentioned conformity issues before)."</p>
<p>What conformity issues, SPECIFICALLY? Can you articulate how you think guys and girls who go Greek are forced to conform, and conform to what?</p>
<p>Don't different sororities/fraternities have different (even if slightly) norms, ideals, self-concepts, values, ideas, etc.? These differences create an atmosphere where a member of a certain house feels they need to uphold the image they were judged on during the selection process, reinforcing the different "personality" each house is supposed to have. Conformity issues include how good-looking you have to be, how often you party, how outgoing you are, things like that. Membership in such a tight-knit group influences one's social expectations and strengthens ingroup/outgroup biases.</p>
<p>Here's an interesting film on one of the sororities' recruitment process:
YouTube</a> - Rushed - A Northwestern Sorority Documentary (Pt 1 of 2)
YouTube</a> - Rushed - A Northwestern Sorority Documentary (Pt 2 of 2)</p>
<p>Oh God. That video has been debated endlessly here. Please do not bring it up again.</p>