<p>also you can never really measure worth- so its all up to the person- if u do not want to work a lot dont go into Ibanking</p>
<p>hmmm my dad does is in some form of banking... i think its investment, because its not loans or marketing... but yea he works a lot of hours, but he does get to go on 2 or 3 business vacations basically to supervise lower people that were rewarded and won the vacation(usually 1 in hawaii, 1 in mexico, or something like that. all expenses paid for him and 1 guest). the income is pretty good too(not a million though... i wish) but yea he is definitely looking forward to retiring</p>
<p>why anyone could go into ibanking now defies logic. they will no longer be profitable like they have been for the past decade. i think ms and leh have a starting 65k salary now... that is pretty bad for nyc.</p>
<p>we've compared ib and law
how about ib vs medicine - pros and cons?
ibers make more.
someone on here said they personally know several doctors making 7 figs. really? i was under the impression that 500k is pretty much the cap in medicine. What specialites are those doctors in?
what about hours? residencies are tough, but after that, hours are much better than ib, no?
and is corporate politics a big deal in ib? what about networking and connections?
medicine is a more stable income, obviously. but exactly how much do ib bonuses fluctuate?
and ib gets so much limelight, but I've heard private equity and other financial sectors are better? thoughts?
sorry if this is a tangent,, but I'm debating between the 2 right now and I'd really like a med vs ib discussion:</p>
<p>Quite honestly, if you're debating between IB and Med, you are not cut out for Med. Surveys show that 70% of doctors are depressed: many of them probably encounter this because they now realize that the "glamorous" (even "thrilling") lifestyle that they were promised was not realistic in the slightest. Their lifestyle is brutal. Their monetary compensation (and here's the part that really gets people) is actually disproportionate with the sheer amount of work/strain involved. Like I said, if you're debating between medicine and IB, it means you're concerned with lifestyle and money. If that is the case, then medicine is definitely not for you...it requires sincere and devoted compassion.</p>
<p>I don't get how IB versus med could even be considered. If you go into medicine, you've got to enjoy the science of it. You need physics, chemistry, and bio, bio, bio. Lots and lots of practice on poor unsuspecting people. Dealing with difficult personalities as patients, or -- if you're interested in another aspect of medicine -- you can become a researcher, or perhaps work for an insurance company or HMO.</p>
<p>In IB, you need to understand the finances of many companies, you need to love to dig to get more details about a company, and you need to schmooze the senior management.</p>
<p>It's like considering whether you'll be a jazz singer or a nurse. The two things aren't even in the same universe.</p>
<p>The chances of you're becoming very well paid in any profession is small. So choose what you like to do, and the money will follow. Or, at least if it doesn't, you're doing something you enjoy.</p>
<p>being a doctor isn't as bad as the previous posters are making it out to be. my mom's a doctor. she works at a hospital on weekdays and has a ton of extra time, and on weekends she does community work and sees patients at her office. she makes ~200k p/year, about average for her profession. </p>
<p>the hardest part, according to her, is getting through med school, residency, and the board exams. for the most part, all our family friends who are doctors agree. it's not easy work, but it's definitely not "brutal". and the monetary compensation is great. not i-banker great, but jobs pay well and are stable. </p>
<p>also: her job requires almost no science. becoming a doctor requires science; practicing does not.</p>
<p>I used to believe that practicing science doesn't require science, but when you think of it, it does a lot.</p>
<p>If a patient says he/she has muscle problems when running or whatever, you need to know stuff about the ATP and other science things. You need to concept to know what's going on.</p>
<p>But I do agree on doing what you're passionate about. The money comes when you do a good job and you do a good job if you enjoy doing it.</p>
<p>I mean, if I wanted to be an education major and I really loved it, I could become a dean of a top school lots of money. But I don't like it so I know if I go that route, I won't get far.</p>
<p>The CEO of bb.com posted their once and he said he loved computers and bodybuilding so he started his business selling Creatine from his house. Now he's worth over $100 million.</p>
<p>It all starts with what your passionate about.</p>
<p>^^^I realize I kinda rambled on and that this isn't news to anyone on here especially since this board is filled with geniuses. :)</p>
<p>In my opinion ibanking is severely overrated. You have very little chance of success (getting into an ibank) and once you're in you have to work your ass off for something like 1/100 odds of making managing director. </p>
<p>Not that a corp. lawyer doesn't work their ass off, but I enjoy solving complex problems in creative ways. I enjoy talking to people. I may be introverted, but I can't deal with sitting in a cubicle for 15 hours a day. I have to talk to people and be social and stuff. I also found my undergraduate law classes quite stimulating.</p>
<p>Besides, corporate lawyers make good money-about $400k as a senior associate-and according to an NYU law alum who is a managing partner at Cravath, the only thing you need to do to make partner is "be a good lawyer." And partnership prospects are 1/10 or 1/15 rather than 1/100.</p>
<p>And law firms don't lay tons of people off. Some biglaw laid off 35 lawyers and that made headlines in every legal newspaper in the US. An ibank lays off 4000 bankers and nobody bats an eye.</p>
<p>This is of course assuming that you enter the business with the intentions of becoming Managing Director.</p>
<p>If, however, you are interested in the buy-side, IBD is a great springboard to "greener pastures" -- HF/PE/VC</p>
<p>
[quote]
It's the same for a lot of jobs.
[/quote]
No, it's not. 108 hours work week is equivalent to 16 hrs/day, 6 days a week, plus 12 hrs on Sunday. On top of that, add in time going to and from the office, etc. And you do that every week of the year.</p>
<p>If that's the kind of life you want, go for it.</p>
<p>What's with all this hatred towards ibanking? It certainly isn't everyone's cup of tea. If you're determined to put up with the hours and all the negatives of the job, you'll gain the benefits of a good salary and great exit opportunities to other endeavors, finance-related or not. </p>
<p>futurenyustudent, you've made your dislike of investment banking very clear. There's simply no need for you to rehash those feelings in every page of this thread. Not to be rude, but nobody cares if you found your law classes to be stimulating. </p>
<p>The bottom line is that EVERY job has its costs and benefits. It's up to the individual to choose whether or not to pursue such a career.</p>
<p>I wouldn't mind doing it for 2 years, for the money/experience/resume building. I thought the analyst position was 2 years? But I would do something else after. </p>
<p>My problem with i-banking (and things related to it) is that it seems meaningless. I don't get what you actually do that benefits anyone. You just make deals to make your firm richer and richer, isn't that right? </p>
<p>But my question, if anyone would kindly answer, is</p>
<p>What would you say are the personality characteristics of a successful i-banker? is extroversion a must? do you have to be a math whiz? do you have to have amazing people skills (aka bs-ing skills)</p>
<p>darvit,</p>
<p>The analyst position is 2 years, and the retention rate is low just because of what you said "money/experience/resume building."</p>
<p>A great deal of individuals only enter IBD for the exit opportunities, where the money and experience can be better; contrary to popular belief on CC, many analysts have no intentions of aiming for MD at an investment bank.</p>
<p>And yes, investment banking is a for-profit business...so the idea is to well..make a profit; however, you want to see what "meaning" there is simply think of it this way:</p>
<p>Investment banks help businesses, which provide services and goods to society, raise money in the equity and debt capital markets; this essentially provides companies with the necessary capital to expand their business which in turns benefits YOU, the consumer.</p>
<p>On the M&A front, the investment bank seeks the best deal for its client -- essentially on a sell-side deal, the best price for the client; on a buy-side deal, determining the most appropriate valuation for w/e asset.</p>
<p>Rarely (I would say never) is anyone in investment banking with the purpose of serving society, but it DOES serve a purpose.</p>
<p>Successful Investment Bankers I would say are extroverted to a degree, in the sense that, as you move up the ranks you will be focusing less on number crunching and more on client relations (i.e. bringing in new business)</p>
<p>-Attention to Detail (can't have that financial model spitting out wrong numbers)
-Comfortable with Numbers (You don't need to be a genious, just know how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide as well ass remember some basic financial principles)</p>
<p>You have to be kind of workaholic to a degree too. Type-A personalities would do pretty well in IB.</p>
<p>Great post majay, really described IB well.</p>
<p>Here's what I wanna know...what do say to an interviewer that asks, "why do you want to get into the financial services industry?" Its hard for me to specify exactly WHY I want to do it, but I do know THAT I want to do finance.</p>
<p>correct me if im wrong, but from what i've heard, IB goes like this:</p>
<p>22 years old, fresh outta college with a Bach. Degree. - you work your a** off for 3 years, making about 100 k after benefits and such. this is where the 100 hour work weeks, all nighters and such come into play.</p>
<p>25 years old - either go to get your MBA or stay with the company and become an associate, a step higher than an analyast. making 250-500k. this position is less b**** work and much less hours than the analyst position.</p>
<p>By 30 years old, you've gained enough experience plus, assuming you've been with the same company, you are rewarded with a VP position, making about 500-1M a year. This job is much more chill and relaxing as now, you have already served your share of the term as the "n00b" and now you just manage over the new 22 year olds as they do their 100 hours a week.</p>
<p>again, correct me if im wrong.</p>
<p>Based upon the way things are going with the Investment Banking firms lately, worrying about getting a job with them isn't going to be an issue.</p>
<p>Bear Stearns was off 47% today (closed at $29.90) based upon the beating they are taking with their hedge funds highly leveraged in the subprime mess. They are only still in business because of a bailout from the federal government and JPMorgan.</p>
<p>$29.90?!?!?!?!!?!?!?</p>
<p>Thank god I sold at ~$75 or so. I lost a bunch of (virtual) money and then I decided to bail out. I sold ALL of my (virtual) positions.</p>
<p>When I have my own money, I'm putting it all in index funds. Or CDs. Or money market accounts. I'll earn my 4-5% interest, thanks. I'm not letting some Wall Street monkey **** away my hard-earned money.</p>