In my world (northeast), it has never been a secret. I mean not even 30 years ago. It has always hung with Emory and Tufts - and more recently Vanderbilt. I think USC is a reasonable comparison (maybe a thin hair down academically), but I would have no issue selecting the school, between the two, that I wanted - if that is the comparison.
I guess the sports being D3 does not help, but they are strong D3 and St Louis is not LA, Boston, DC, NY…
Love the school. Love USC, too.
Others have already mentioned the major issues, but I’d characterize it more as a “brand” issue than the school being a “secret”. Looking down the list of usual suspects among “ranked” private universities:
-8 Ivies are famous for being Ivies.
-6 are known as major college sports programs (Duke, Vandy, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Stanford, USC…and USC wasn’t thought of very highly in my day and I know quite a few people who continue to hold that opinion because opinions are difficult to change)
-6 others have something academic/cultural to hang their hat on: UChicago (econ), MIT (STEM), CalTech (STEM), Hopkins (highest fed R&D spend, frequently cited “studies” in the media), you could argue Carnegie Mellon with computer science, Georgetown w/ govt. They aren’t all well-branded across the board, but they are very well-branded in a couple of areas, so they have a natural pull for prospective students (and among the broader public) for that “thing they do”.
WashU is very, very good across the board with respect to undergraduate education. But it does not occupy a readily identifiable brand category the way Ivies or big time sports schools do. Nor is it known for that one “thing” at the undergrad level. And there’s nothing wrong with that. I picked it a long time ago over one school in each of the 3 categories I listed above. That hasn’t hurt me in the least and the people I associate with professionally know it well. From a “brand” perspective, it’s similar to Rice or Emory.
Until about a decade ago the school’s official name was “Washington University”. They changed it to “Washington University in St. Louis” to avoid confusion.
It is a Top 20 school – definitely not a secret where I live (in the Northeast).
When I was there (mid/late 90s) the “in St Louis” addendum was already in wide use (conversationally and even on some merchandise). As you mention, they made it official about a decade ago. If they wanted to improve the brand recognition, they’d cultivate one area along the lines of a JHU, UC, CM. Easier said than done though.
Personally, I like where they are. Students who enroll there are almost always well qualified for a long list of bigger names. To an extent, some of the prestige/brand/image chasing gets weeded out. Many of the students have foregone a bigger name for a more holistic “fit”, which tends to foster a down to earth, friendly mentality on campus.
Anyone you will ever care about knows WashU. Think D is thinking party scene and weather, not academic differences; all valid concerns, by the way.
USC has been on the news for huge scandals in the past two years; it’s a big football school and of course we got OJ Simpson case way back. WashU is off the radar for a lot of poeple but it does have higher peer assessment (reputation among academics).
Interesting thread. We never heard of WashU being from Chicago… Until… My son was a junior and we looked into colleges. In my area it’s known as Country Club University… We went and yes it’s a great campus and university. Reminded me of UChicago… Very wealthy families but as stated everyone was nice. We actually stopped some students and asked the “Why WashU” question to them and all were more then happy to answer questions.
This is one of the schools my kid has been accepted to. Wondering if any parents/alums can comment on career services & if lack of name recognition had any negative impact on job placement. Or does it seem that those doing the hiring tend to know of it & the quality of the students?
Yep, not a secret, just flyover. But for about a decade it’s been a school of choice for midwestern (very) rich kids who weren’t going to Stanford. Tufts of the Midwest.
It’s not just the location. What would WashU be known for? Popular spot for a bunch of kids from well-to-do families on a pre-med track?
Speaking as a representative of their target audience (which I know I am because I get spammed by them almost daily), this is what I think they are selling:
A well-rounded, high caliber school with a good work-life balance and a beautiful campus. All the trappings of an Ivy education with a midwestern sensibility.
By comparison, what would the answer to “what are they known for” be for, oh I dunno, Yale? Or Harvard? Something close to: Popular spot for well-to-do families on a pre-med/MBA/law/investment banking track?
Don’t write off the entire state. States like Missouri that are “red” often have “blue” urban areas like St.Louis. St. Louis just elected its first female African American mayor.The area around WUSTL in St. Louis is lovely and is the cultural center of the city. Wash U is right across from Forest Park where the museum, zoo, public ampetheater are. St. Louis doesn’t get the media attention of LA or east coast cities.
My point is that location isn’t what keeps WashU less-known. UMich, for example, is well-known everywhere (and I’m not talking about its sports program). I hope not to offend anytone but I’m hard-pressed to find anything that distinguishes WashU academically (Harvard or Yale at least has some paths for intellectually serious students).
Sorry but this thread is beginning to sound a bit like a bashing. I am an alum and the parent of a current student. WashU is an exceptional school that can offer students a collaborative environment, an excellent education, and many opportunities for research and internships. The campus is gorgeous and the dorms are highly rated.
I live on the east coast, and it is very well known around here. Anytime people ask where my son attends, they are highly impressed. Explore the website or better yet visit the campus and see what you think. To say that WashU does not have “intellectually serious students” is just not a fair or true statement.
I’m sorry you took my comments as “bashing”. Saying a college lacks paths for intellectually serious students isn’t the same as saying the colleges lacks such students.
A few years ago my S and I visited nearly 30 colleges in every region of the country, including a few in the Midwest. But we couldn’t find a reason to visit WashU. Nice dorms and campus just don’t do anything for him academically. I seriously like to be educated if we were wrong.
My point was centered around my campus visit with my D. I was thoroughly impressed with the school, the students, the faculty and the staff. After being blown away, I was just surprised that WashU isn’t more of a well known brand. They have major alums, highly sought after graduate programs, big time endowment, etc…all the makings of a very well branded school minus athletics.
I live in Richmond, VA and personal had never heard of the school and neither did many within my circle, and most are college grads with terminal degrees. Sadly enough my daughters guidance counselor did not know about WashU. Granted she attends an urban public high school and would be the first to attend from her school. But its not just a VA thing, someone from Chicago, five fours away, was not familiar with the school.
If your kid wants to go on to grad school, my research says, it doesn’t get much better than a WashU education. I would also be pretty confident to say that HR/recruitment departments of major companies would know about WashU.
No bashing from me, more of a curiosity thing. I hope my daughter joins the alumni ranks of WashU.
“Country Club College” pretty much was WU’s brand pre official “WUSTL” days. Like most schools (incl “University of Spoiled Children”) trying to change their image, there is still more truth in it than the schools would like, and the fact is that the WUSTL student body is one of the wealthiest going.
But “wealthy” does not necessarily mean the opposite of smart, hard working and goal oriented! That WUSTL is using $$ to incentivize more high-achieving students to come is also true (straight out of Vandy’s playbook, though not as aggressive).
Fwiw, I felt that the pre-professional vibe at WUSTL is at UPenn/Emory levels- that suits or it doesn’t, depending on the student.
To me it’s a given that UMich has wider name recognition considering it’s a 3x-bigger public research institution with one of the best-known D1 sports programs in the country & among the largest alumni networks in the world.
I am curious to hear more about what ‘paths for intellectually serious students’ means to you – WashU has certainly proven to be an excellent path for students aspiring to top med/law schools and PhD programs (particularly in the sciences), and professionals in those fields are certainly familiar with it.
That’s simply because you don’t know anything about the school.
I grew up in Missouri. Wash U has long been known for not only its intellectually stimulating environment, but its support for undergrads and the opportunities they have on campus.
Wash U is very much on par with other regional small to medium private schools like Rice, Vanderbilt and Chicago. None were big National names back in the day, yet they were always well respected schools. All have grown to be “it” schools since the advent of rankings.