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<p>USC second-best in CA? Ahead of Caltech? I don’t think so. USC is currently no better than 4th best in CA. Maybe 5th, depending on how you rank UCLA. Berkeley is going to have to suffer a serious metldown for USC to overtake them.</p>
<p>To its credit, USC has improved a lot since the days a couple of decades ago when it stood for the University of Spoiled Children, but let’s not get carried away.</p>
<p>I don’t understand what would make you state such, but I’m completely confident with my statement.</p>
<p>UC-Berkeley is California third best university, USC second best, while Stanford first.</p>
<p>Coolbreeze - It’s going to take more than mere assertion to make a convincing case that USC is now second best in CA. Can you document in what ways USC has comprehensively surpassed both Caltech and UC Berkeley academically?</p>
<p>USC as the 4th best in California is such a generous statement. The truth is, there are several schools - more than 4 - that are superior to USC for undergrad.</p>
<ol>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>Caltech</li>
</ol>
<p>3-5. UC Berkeley / Mudd / Pomona (though not as prestigious as Cal)
6-7. Claremont McKenna / Skripps
8-9. UCLA / USC</p>
<p>Take it from Yudoff, the UCs won’t be the same.
[Yudof</a> Discusses UC System’s Financial Future - The Daily Californian](<a href=“http://www.dailycal.org/article/106061/]Yudof”>http://www.dailycal.org/article/106061/)</p>
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<p>Both UCB and UCLA used to rank a lot higher than USC and a lot higher than they are ranking now.</p>
<p>^^^When was that? UCB and UCLA have been ranked right around where they are now for years. UCB was considered a top ten school in the U.S. before the USNWR decided to tweek it’s data to prop up smaller private schools. With respect to UCLA, it has moved up for the most part, not down, over the past 10 years. It’s more the case of USC rising than the top U-C’s falling. As I stated before, I question the authenticity of the numbers being reported by USC to USNWR. I will say however that it seems the U-C system was unprepared for the dramatic downturn of the economy. Schools like The University of Michigan, who years ago realized they couldn’t rely mostly on state funding if they wanted to stay strong, are still in relatively good shape.</p>
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<p>Which ranking are you referring to? Certainly not USNews, because both UCB’s and UCLA’s USNews ranking have remained quite stable. Berkeley has been ranked either 20 or 21 every year for the past 10 years and before that it was often ranked lower, not higher. Same for UCLA. It has been ranked either 25 or 26 every year for the past 10 years except for this year when it rose to 24. Their rankings have not dropped.</p>
<p>IIRC there was a chart for old US News rankings, UCB used to be in single digit and UCLA in the teen, while USC was not in top 50.</p>
<p>It is true that USC has experienced the most climb in rankings of the three universities (Cal, UCLA, and USC). However, to say that USC is the second-best university in the state is a joke - a very bad joke. Cal, Caltech, Stanford, and UCLA will always rank higher than USC.</p>
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<p>Yes, there is such a chart:</p>
<p>[U.S</a>. News Rankings Through the Years](<a href=“http://web.archive.org/web/20070908142457/http://chronicle.com/stats/usnews/]U.S”>U.S. News Rankings Through the Years)</p>
<p>And as you can see your memory of Berkeley’s and UCLA’s ranking is quite faulty. You are correct that USC has risen though, beginning in about 2001.</p>
<p>coureur, my husband said you picked on the wrong person as far as faulty memory is concerned. 
I found the link about old ranking.</p>
<p>[U.S</a>. News Rankings Through the Years](<a href=“http://web.archive.org/web/20070908142457/http://chronicle.com/stats/usnews/]U.S”>U.S. News Rankings Through the Years)</p>
<p>The year is in parenthesis
</p>
<p>^^^Not sure what the above chart proves other than the USNWR changed their ranking system in the early-mid 80’s.</p>
<p>The chart proved what I stated in my earlier post that UCB and UCLA used to rank a lot higher than they are ranking now. It has nothing to do with USC.</p>
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<p>Sure the rankings were higher a LONG time ago- back in the mid-80s when USNews was still developing its methodology. Big changes in the rankings = big changes in the methodology not in the quality of the school. As I said, for at least the last ten years the rankings of these two UCs have remained quite stable.</p>
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<p>If that is so then the methodology before was much, much better and acceptable. Imagine Vandi, Emory, Notre Dame and the like are now ranked higher than Cal… Isn’t that ridiculous?</p>
<p>^ Not really. Not at all.</p>
<p>
Exactly. The initial rankings in the 1980s were based solely on peer assessment. No SAT scores, no alumni giving, etc.</p>
<p>Unsurprisingly, the list would look almost exactly the same today.</p>
<ol>
<li>Harvard/MIT/Princeton/Stanford</li>
<li>Yale</li>
<li>Berkeley</li>
<li>Caltech/Chicago/Columbia</li>
<li>Cornell/Hopkins/Penn</li>
<li>Brown/Duke/Michigan</li>
<li>Dartmouth/Northwestern/UVA</li>
<li>Carnegie Mellon/UCLA</li>
<li>UNC/Wisconsin/WUStL</li>
<li>Emory/Georgia Tech/Georgetown/Illinois/Rice/Vanderbilt</li>
<li>USC/UT Austin</li>
<li>Notre Dame/NYU/Penn State/UCD/UCSD/Washington/William & Mary</li>
</ol>
<p>^^^That is how the top schools should be ranked.</p>
<p>Rjk,
You sound a little like the little Dutch boy who put his fingers in the dike to keep out the reality of the invading waters…or is that envy? Whatever, USC has made a lot of great strides over the last decade. It’s not a universally strong story, but in many respects, USC has caught up to and surpassed your U Michigan, while in other current respects they are virtually equal. Why won’t you give them a little credit?</p>
<p>Even though USC is a very large school by private college standards, compared to U Michigan, USC still offers a materially more intimate classroom environment for a statistically stronger student body. U Michigan is known for being a wealthy public, but its spending per student as measured by USNWR is identical to USC even while USC is more generous to students seeking need-based financial aid. </p>
<p>Heck, the decline of U Michigan and the rise of USC is also reflected in the signature sport of football. Over the last decade, USC has won 2 national titles. U Michigan has won none and finished dead last this year in the Big Ten. </p>
<p>Using the current and the 1999 USNWR Best Colleges issue, let’s compare the changes and some current data for USC with your U Michigan. </p>
<p>STUDENT QUALITY</p>
<p>Top 10% students
from 52% in 1999 to 87% for a gain of 35% for USC
from 59% in 1999 to 92% for a gain of 33% for U Michigan</p>
<p>Standardized Test Scores
USC
from 1050-1310 in 1999 to 1270-1470 (gain of 220-160 points)<br>
33% scored 700+ on CR and 50% scored 700+ on Math
Current ACT 25/75 is 28-33 for USC
63% of USC students scored 30+ on the ACT</p>
<p>U Michigan
from 1150-1340 in 1999 to 1220-1430 (gain of 70-90 points) for U Michigan
22% scored 700+ on CR and 46% scored 700+ on Math
Current ACT 25/75 is 27-31 for U Michigan
44% of U Michigan students scored 30+ on the ACT</p>
<p>Acceptance Rate
from 46% in 1999 to 21% for a drop of 25% for USC
from 69% in 1999 to 50% for a drop of 19% for U Michigan</p>
<p>SIZE OF THE CLASSROOM</p>
<p>% Classes with under 20 students
from 51% to 63.5% for an improvement of 12.5% for USC
from 48% to 46% for a worsening of -2% for U Michigan</p>
<p>% of Classes with more than 50 students
from 17% to 11% for an improvement of -6% for USC
from 15% to 18% for a worsening of +3% for U Michigan</p>
<p>TEACHING
PA Scores (which IMO aren’t reflecting undergraduate teaching, but I know you like this info)
from 3.7 to 3.9 for USC
from 4.5 to 4.4 for U Michigan</p>
<p>Teaching Commitment for undergrad
Neither ranked in the 1995 USNWR Teaching Survey
U Michigan tied with 6 others for 11th place in 2009 survey; USC not ranked</p>
<p>INSTITUTIONAL RESOURCES</p>
<p>Current Financial Aid coverage for need-based
USC
100% of need-based aid is awarded to IS and OOS undergraduates
51% of students borrow
$27,692 is average indebtedness at graduation</p>
<p>U Michigan
100% of need-based aid is awarded to IS; estimated 62% for OOS undergraduates
46% of students borrow
$25,586 is average indebtedness at graduation (no IS/OOS distinction available)</p>
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<p>hawkette, several members on this forum have shown legitimate proof that USC used deceptive tactics to improve their overall ranking. Because of this, USC is NOT better than Michigan. I am saying this as someone who knows right from wrong.</p>