<p>If you have been accepted at Kalamazoo College and a number of other small liberal arts, it is a tough decision to make, I think you should choose Kalamzoo. Here's why:
I attended Kalamazoo in the 1970's and subsequently went to grad school and got Master's at both Univ. of Michigan and New York University. Grad schools love K-college grads and they get in at all the best places. I have subsequently worked in commercial real estate finance at Citigroup, MetLife and now Lehman.
Most of my best friends-30 years later were my classmates at Kalamazoo.
An incredible international study program with among the highest % of undergrads studying overseas of any college in the U.S. Only Middlebury and Lewis and Clark even come close. I spent an entire year in Sweden.
Great small classes with full professors. You will never get that at the big state or large private universities.<br>
Grad schools know it is tough to graduate from Kalamazoo with a senior thesis/project, GRE's in your major and a comprehensive departmental exam in your major. Most other quality liberal arts schools require only one of the three so a B.A. really means something from Kalamazoo.
An amazing new African-American woman president. She is in only her first year and I think it would be great to spend 4 years under her leadership.
The city of Kalamazoo is a great place with lots of cultural activities, a large state univ. next door Western Michigan that gets a lot of big name speakers, concerts etc and 2 hours from either Ann Arbor or Chicago on Amtrak.
A really beautiful campus on the edge of downtown with close proximity of dorms to the library and classrooms. That is crucial on those winter days.
Kalamazoo is a member of the GLCA ( a consortium of small Midwestern liberal arts colleges) that sponsor a number of great programs in different fields in cities all over the U.S. and overseas.
I had a number of choices of where to go undergrad and I have always been glad I went to Kalamazoo. When the time comes to donate, they are the only one. I am happy to respond if you have any questions.</p>
<p>It was so refreshing to read your post! There are a few parents in-the-know on this forum who consistently recommend K College as a superb LAC for many of the reasons you've described and more. It's even been suggested that the admissions office would be swamped with apps if located in the northeast...no doubt. Like yourself, the alums (and current students) we've spoken to have had nothing but high praise for the school and their experience there. </p>
<p>My son has been accepted with an honors scholarship and is very excited about attending this fall. He also is a recruited athlete (football). He's been to campus twice, full tour (gorgeous new library), recruiting visit, an overnight, sampled an Econ. class, hung out with teammates, etc. and has had great experiences both times. The only concern he's had will be balancing the rigorous academics with his athletic commitments, but the athletes he's spoken to say it's manageable once you get into a groove. Of course, he can't wait to do his study abroad when the time comes. Right now, he's filling out his housing app, trying to figure out the best options. Any info./recommendations you could provide about the dorms would be appreciated! </p>
<p>Husband and I are both U of M alums (H. also got his MBA there), but we think Kalamazoo College is the perfect environment for our son and will be a wonderful opportunity. I've posted a couple of times in an attempt to answer a prospective student's questions, detailing our visits and impressions. I'm sure some questions of our own will arise so I hope you won't mind receiving a PM from me down the road. Thanks again for your informative post!</p>
<p>Thanks also for your very informative post. My daughter has been accepted at KC, as well as Beloit and Lewis and Clark. We will be out to Michigan next week to visit the college for the first time. Her primary interest is in international relations and studying abroad, not necessarily in that order. We are from the Boston area and KC is virtually unknown out here, and as a result, she has received very little positive feedback from friends when she tells them she has been accepted there. I am a bit worried that KC may be more academically rigorous than she would feel comfortable with, in comparison to Lewis and Clark. Is it possible for you to comment on that? She likes Beloit, which she has seen (I haven't). It feels comfortably laid back to her and less intense. In the end the choice is hers, but I'd like to feel confident she's made the right one.</p>
<p>kingsrook-- </p>
<p>There are many LAC's in the northeast that are virtual unknowns to students in the Midwest as well. Big name schools get all the recognition, but these small colleges provide an excellent undergrad experience. Are you familiar with Loren Pope's book, Colleges That Change Lives? Forty schools are highlighted, including both Kalamazoo and Beloit... <a href="http://www.ctcl.com/%5B/url%5D">http://www.ctcl.com/</a></p>
<p>My comments below were to a potential K student who had posted and also expressed a strong interest in studying abroad. If that is a primary interest for your D., Kalamazoo is a leader in that area through their Center for International Programs... <a href="http://www.kzoo.edu/cip/%5B/url%5D">http://www.kzoo.edu/cip/</a></p>
<p>
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You touched on the study-abroad component of the K-Plan curriculum. A vast majority of students take advantage of this opportunity. It is not offered simply as an option, but is a well-established and highly-developed program that is strongly encouraged and easily integrated into a student's four-year plan.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>K College is a hidden Midwestern gem. Great foreign study program that everyone takes advantage of. Engaged profs. Engaged students. Very high acceptance rate into grad schools. Definitely is a challenging school also. Well known in academic circles. Just a beautiful campus. I can't speak for the geographic/diversity mix of students now, but when I was there back in the olden days, my roomies and friends were from all over the country.</p>
<p>MOTB--
I enjoyed reading your post! We always hear such positive feedback from K College alums. That speaks volumes about this wonderful school.</p>
<p>Kingsrook, a lot of Kzoo students are from Michigan, but it is regarded as the best LAC in the state - so they are among the best Michigan students. It's a really wonderful school. I have visited both Beloit and Kzoo, and I think Kzoo has better programs in terms of internships and study aboad. They've been leaders in study abroad for 30 years or more. Almost all students have some kind of off-campus experience. It's a very individual thing, but I prefer the location of Kzoo also. From Kzoo, it's an easy train ride to Chicago or Ann Arbor. Beloit is in a sort of depressed industrial town. I've heard good things about the school, however. If your daughter was accepted to Kzoo, then they obviously believe she can handle the workload. It's the kind of place that turns kids on.</p>
<p>In terms of your daughter and your fear of K being too academically challenging, maybe I should have said in my earlier post "academically stimulating"...I have to say that it's amazing how people rise to challenges. I still remember (and it was only 30 years ago) being alittle intimidated the first couple weeks around the caliber of students. That said, it didn't take me that long to feel part of the grove, and the stimulation of those superior minds stimulates your own mind more than you can ever expect. I came from a very small school in a very small town and graduated at the top of my class but I remember K being about expanding your mind -- expanding your analytical capabilities. A young man I know is now in his freshman year at K He was just home and yes, he was/is very, very bright and yes his fall semester was abit intimidating, but like most all of us that went to K and matriculated from K, he is now "in the groove" and really enjoying the level of intellectual challenge. In my humble opinion K has always been more about the intellectual stimulation which to me is very different than an academic grind. I believe it was 'K where I heard a prof say: "it's more important to be able to ask the right question than to know the right answer". That expression has stood me well in my life and in my career. Beloit & Lewis& Clark are also great schools and I have friends that attended both and loved them, but yes, us 'K grads do have a soft spot for our alma matter. Let us know what you thought after your trip.</p>
<p>Momof3--Did you study abroad as a student? Do an internship? What was your major? Have you been back to campus much over the years?</p>
<p>Besides academics, did the freshman student you know provide any feedback about other aspects of his experience...such as dorm life, food, EC's, roommates/friends, profs/administrators, greater K-Zoo community/WMU, etc.?</p>
<p>Thank you all for your responses. We got back two days ago from K, preceded by a visit to Beloit for accepted students weekend. Coming from the Boston area, both towns are such a let-down, but I know it's campus life that's most important. The bottom line is that my d preferred K to Beloit, to both our surprise. Whereas I was immediately struck by the clean-cut jockiness of the boys (we'd just come from Beloit where a bunch of kids were in the midst, day and night, of trying to break the world record of an on-going frisbee game) --what she first saw was the racial diversity she felt was lacking at Beloit. I thought the kids were spookily focused--everyone we spoke with very clear about what they were interested in careerwise, particularly since kids must declare a major no later than the winter of their sophomore year. What she saw was that K had a very high proportion of kids going into the Peace Corp or TeachAmerica after graduation. As a dyed in wool East Coast liberal, I cringed when I saw a number of signs for meetings of the Young Republicans club. What she saw was a map of the world iin the study abroad office with dozens of colored pins denoting where students were currently studying. I thought my daughter would naturally gravitate to Beloit because the culture there is comfortable and familiar. What she ended up feeling was that it might feel stiffiling in the long run.
To GoBlueAlumMom, we ate lunch at the cafeteria--the food was actually pretty good, particularly compared with Beloit, which was truly awful. K food is managed by Sodexho, and I'd say the quality was as good as any decent corporate cafeteria (which they also manage). Not much within walking distance of the campus--a Burger King, and an independent coffee place with comfortable couches. half a dozen students there with their laptops and bookbags. My d asked about non-campus places to hear music. She was told there were a few clubs that allowed under 21's and that Guster had been to WMU not long ago. D brightened up considerably at that. I asked a few students to describe their relationships with profs. Each said some were very friendly, told kids to call them by their first names, went the extra mile to get to know them, invited them to dinner at their homes, etc. But all said there were some that wanted to be addressed as Dr. so and so and kept their distance. This struck me as much more traditional than at Beloit. Class sizes are much larger than at Beloit and I was disappointed at that. Average is 15, goes to 20, or 30 for lecture. Administration keeps their distance, although the new president is better and one of her first decisions is to renovate and upgrade student center/cafeteria, the Pike building, I think. I was very surprised to learn that virtually all seniors live off campus because there aren't enough dorms. All assured me that this was easy to figure out since there is a lot of available student housing off campus, but I really wonder what this does to the campus community, on top of the exodus of most juniors abroad. I'd like to hear thoughts on this. Visited one dorm and one room. D thought it was a better set up than at Beloit. A lot more bathrooms, most liked with another room instead of a big one shared by the hall. Don't know if this set up is consistent in other buildings. Inference (I was standing right there) that party life is easily available, campus security doesn't interfere if kept under control, contrary to WMU where they will report incidences to police. Didn't get a clear picture of social relationship with WMU though. Couldn't pick up if this was predominately a drink school or a drug school either... Admissions Office couldn't have been nicer--sent a student to pick us up at airport and 6 hours later, drive us back. They were prepared for our visit, gave us a schedule when we arrived, and we felt very welcomed.<br>
So, no decision has been made yet. At end of month we're flying to Portland to see Lewis and Clark for the first time. D hopes that will be the tie breaker because then it will be an easier decision, but I have the feeling it won't be black and white and she'll have to figure it out in her gut and her heart.</p>
<p>Interesting trip report, kingsrook. We also did the full day visit with our S. so I appreciate getting a different perspective.</p>
<p>Funny about seeing those Young Republican signs since K is considered one of the more liberal campuses here in the State outside of U-Michigan--Ann Arbor. What we picked up was diversity on that level...that all philosophies are represented. My S. will be an addition to that clean-cut jock pool, but we met many other kids cut from a totally different cloth. As a matter of fact, we had a potential transfer student in our tour group. He was a great kid, but polar opposite from my son. Obviously very bright, also considering schools like Northwestern, etc. At the end of the tour, he commented on how he felt much more comfortable at K than at the larger, "preppie" schools he had been accepted to and had visited. K was at the top of his list after his visit. Also, our tour guide and the tour guide-in-training (both OOS'ers, one from New Hampshire) were, yet again, very different from S. and the transfer student. H. and I even commented on the diversity we had experienced in such a small sampling of students. BTW, our tour guide also raved about their new African-American female President. Apparently, she's frequently seen walking the campus, talking with students, very approachable. Indeed, the Hicks Center renovation will be breaking ground shortly, a project she spearheaded. The new library renovation had just been unveiled prior to our visit...very impressive. I'd be curious to know which parts of the school's administration keep their distance. Like you, we also found that the Admissions staff couldn't have been nicer as well as the athletic staff, the Center for International Programs staff, the student center staff, the medical clinic staff, the bookstore staff...everyone we encountered, in fact! Again, H. and I had an undergrad experience where the entire U's administration was beyond detached, to put it mildly, so this seemed amazing to us. </p>
<p>As far as career focus, perhaps it ties into the internship/externship component of the K-Plan. That certainly gets kids thinking about what direction they may want to pursue after graduation. Graduate school and professional school placement is extremely high at K so they might be focusing on the next step in their educational plans as well. Sophomore year declaration of a major was common at the schools we visited. At K, I would think a student would need to have it figured out by then with study abroad junior year and the senior individualized project their last year. Speaking of study abroad, I asked that question of several students about its effect on campus life. They said not everyone is gone at once. Some go fall quarter, some spring, some longer...it varied depending on the chosen program. However, that component of the K-Plan is what attracts many students to the school so we only received positive feedback on that subject.</p>
<p>Class sizes, in most cases, are smaller that what our S. has had in high school. S. sat in on an intermediate-level Econ. class during his overnight visit and was struck at how much more personal it felt than his high school experience. Of course, a lecture of 20 or 30 kids would seem almost empty to H. and I since we had those notorious 300+ lectures at U-Michigan!</p>
<p>We also thought that having a year off-campus as a senior would be a good transitional experience...give the kids some real life preparation. Plus, after returning from study abroad as a junior, we felt that dorm life probably would seem stifling to a senior, a step backward almost. Of course, H. and I outgrew dorm living after freshman year so three years seemed like an eternity to us! We also were told that housing is readily available in the neighborhood surrounding campus so most of the seniors are practically on campus anyway, just a stone's throw away. S. stayed in one of the dorm suites during his overnight. Large common living room with two double bedrooms, one single bedroom, and shared bath. He also saw other room configurations, two-room suites with shared bath, traditional rooms with community bath, etc. On his housing app, he preferenced a large living suite like the one he had stayed in with his host student. Suites seem plentiful and preferred by many students. We had lunch as part of our tour and, like you, found the food to be varied and quite good. However, I always wonder what kids think about the campus food after several months compared to just our single meal experience. </p>
<p>In terms of the greater community, I can imagine that most, if not all, college towns would seem like a let-down when comparing them to Boston! Perhaps L & C will provide that larger urban experience since it's in Portland. My S. and his hosts went into Central City for dinner. The students pointed out the clubs, restaurants, coffee shops, etc. that they like to frequent. A huge mega-plex facility is also being built and will be completed soon. Access to downtown was on the West Main St. side of campus and not a far walk/bike ride. Some students have cars and I believe public bus service is also available. Having WMU next door provides additional social opportunites/campus events for those looking for that (like joining their Greek system, concerts, parties, etc.), although S. was told by his hosts that most K students find plenty to do on their own campus and in town. The Liberal Arts Colloquium (LAC) brings a variety of special events to campus as well. </p>
<p>Please report back when your D. has made her decision...Good Luck!!!!</p>
<p>Interesting observations. Personally I think its good for your daughter to visit Lewis & Clark also. I'm not surprised at what she felt between Beloit and K. It was similar 30 years ago. I'm glad they are renovating Hicks, when I visited campus last year, it was the same with the exception of a few paint change colors and some minor rennovation as when I attended 30 some years ago. It's due for an overhaul. The dorms are all different, but any of them are not bad and better than some schools. I think they still put many freshman in Dewaters, but can't say for certain. Dewaters is where the young man I know is. He was alittle lost in the fall, but he has now found friends, this would be the same at any school...finding your "group". Dewaters is also where I was as a freshman, although back then it was female only, and Hoben was the boys. Most students, I think, still do a career service early on so they get a very good sense if they will "like" their chosen career field and it very much "focuses" you on your future. The K-plan although tweaked since my day, is a very good thing. I highly recommend taking advantage if they still do this. I did mine in Boston BTW. While I didn't switch my major (poly sci) I did switch my career focus and my career service secured my first job out of K and it's a career I "stuck" with for 30 years. There is an unbelieveably high acceptance rate into very good grad schools if students decide to go that route. While I wasn't a great student grade-wise, I did quite well on the grad school exams and the exams we had to take at K to graduate and I was accepted to all the grad schools I applied to. When I was at K, my high school friends that were at Western preferred coming "up" to K and "hanging out" not so sure what the relationship if any is these days. You can hear their football games at one end of the K campus. Kalamazoo is not in my opinion a "great American town" but it is progressive town because of the University and the colleges. This works in it's favor because if you need off-campus experiences, they are diverse and easily within reach. It's a lovely walk to the Art Museum through the historic district. Although there is plenty to do on campus. The days go quick. When you return from foreign study you are in a different "space" emotionally. It's a very maturing experience. Also you have your SIP (senior thesis) to tackle and complete, moving off campus is more of a rite of passage, and as an under grad, we sure loved knowing a senior we could go visit. Most choose houses very close to campus and it more stretches the campus than changes the dynamics, it's really part of the experience and for those that choose, it's really the first time they pay rent, utilities, buy their own groceries, and all those maturing things. It can be a positive more than a negative. I'm pleased to hear that she still found the campus diverse. I know that was something I hoped had not changed over the years. We, those at K, never felt that we were just a "Michigan" school. Another suggestion, as I look at colleges with my oldest son, I ask for a copy of the alumni magazine and look at the class notes to see what alums are doing 1, 5, 10 years out of school...very telling about the caliber of the school and the types of people that go there. I don't think the kids think about stuff like that but it's an interesting perspective. I'm a "bad" alumni and the school would not fit any of my boys which makes me alittle sad, but I do still go visit every couple years, walk the campus, sit on the Stetson chapel steps and remember those heady days.</p>
<p>GoBlue, we were posting at the same time, glad to see you have similar "this day" thoughts about career service, foreign service, moving off campus. Guess some things never change. BTW utimately my college decision was between U of M Res College and K. UofM, even with the res college just was too large for my tastes back then, but I did my share of visiting Ann Arbor (and Chicago) for long weekends away from K. So, that said, if Kalamazoo is too smallish, for students, there are two great cities less than 2 hours away and it's easy to find rides or take the train.</p>
<p>It was interesting that we shared similar impressions of various aspects of K given our cross-posts. U of M was a big place then and it's even more so today. It definitely isn't for everyone. If a private school had been a financial option for me when I was a student, I'm sure I would have loved a school like K. Now that I have the Big U experience to compare it to, I think the advantages offered by a LAC provide an excellent environment for an undergrad.</p>