<p>S1 is looking at a grad program at USC. One requirement is a year of Spanish. He studied Italian in middle school and passed the proficiency exam, then had four years of Russian, the only language given at his high school, and passed those proficiency exams. It fulfilled the language requirement at his college, but now if he wants to apply to USC, he has to take Spanish before he graduates.</p>
<p>4 years of Elementary FL do NOT equal 4 years of HS FL, and certainly not a college major (4 years of a FL in college = major).
Typically, 1 semester of college FL = 2 years of HS FL; 1 year of HS FL = 2 years of MS FL; 1 year of MS FL = 2 years of elementary school language.
It’s good to start early and keep going to reach a basic proficiency level.
In addition, there are skills you simply can’t expect from young children. A very important part of language learning is metalinguistic and cultural comparisons. Even in early middle school some of these skills are too advanced for the students yet they’re essential cognitive skills to develop.
Finally, there’s the matter of content. Elementary school children will have a child’s view of the culture. They’ll learn about birthdays, going to the supermarketwith their mother, looking at toys in the shop windows… In high school, they’ll learn about cultural aspects such as the educational system or food/drink traditions. In college, they’ll learn about immigration patterns, history, etc. Not to mention literature: you wouldn’t want 6th graders to read about adultery and suicide (Madame Bovary), about murder and amorality (Crime and punishment), or Frederico Garcia Lorca! The excerpts children and teens read are suited to their age, and only at the end of high school can they access classics.</p>
<p>In order to benefit from learning in immersion, you need to be at (roughly) the lower intermediate level which is HS FL 3-4. You can go to the foreign country knowing nothing but you’ll need formal instruction along with immersion and it’s intensely difficult, disconcerting, and often alienating to be in a culture you don’t understand, surrounded by people you have no clue about what they’re doing and saying. It certainly can’t be done by everyone. There are year long high school study abroad programs, but they’re highly self selective AND even with that first self selection they include both academic and psychological tests. Teens can’t “just go” spend a year in a foreign country.
A young adult who has worked can go work in another country as long as they grasp the language at least minimally (ie, at least HS FL3) but they can’t go if they don’t know at least the basics to understand basic directions and how to function where they’re living. In addition, while it’s cheap to go to Latin America, it’s not so cheap to go to many other parts of the world, it requires arrangements, visas, etc., and usually takes place through an organization that costs money. Taking classes in college and going to study abroad with the college may not be more expensive than spending a year abroad, especially if you take into account security concerns (taken care of by the college).</p>
<p>At our school, I can only take French, German, and Spanish. I’m taking French now, but I want to learn some eastern/exotic language while I am in college.</p>
<p>Just have to ask…why NOT learn a second language in college? Is there something wrong with doing this? That is what the OP is implying.</p>
<p>I agree that it’s better to learn a language later than not to do it at all.</p>
<p>I took ten years of French…starting in 3rd grade…going through 11th…then again in college for a year. I never mastered the language…never. I managed to slog through the courses and various language labs, and even placed out of a year of college French. I never became conversant. I could conjugate tons of verbs…but I could not converse! Personally, I think the focus should have been on conversation, and it wasn’t.</p>
<p>I studied 4 years of French in high school, straight A’s, 5 on AP French and 790 on SAT II French. When I moved to Montr</p>
<p>"I studied 4 years of French in high school, straight A’s, 5 on AP French and 790 on SAT II French. When I moved to Montr</p>
<p>Hmm My HS requires at least two years of FL, although there are ways of getting around it. There is also a program for getting through level one of French or Spanish in middle school. As a sophomore in French 3, I’d say the program is very beneficial. I plan to continue through senior year.</p>
<p>It think it should be required (or strongly encouraged) only if there is a wide vareity of languages offered. My school has French, Spanish, German, and Chinese.</p>
<p>In today’s Global Job Market it is beneficial to be bilingual. If you cant get started until college, better late than never.</p>
<p>At most high school, FL is just a regular class. I plan on continuing with French For the remainder of high school, and I have more than enough time for 4 years in the core classes, a fine arts, course, a tech course, and other electives.</p>
<p>In short, If a HS student is commited to the language study, it does not waste time</p>
<p>Because foreign language isn’t usually taught until middle or high school. And even then, the choices are very limited. I didn’t get to take Japanese until I entered college because the only languages offered at my high school were Spanish, French, and Korean, and at my middle school, they only offered Spanish and ASL.</p>
<p>Being born into a Vietnamese household, I pretty much grew up bilingual in both Vietnamese and English, so any additional languages I learn would be a 3rd, 4th, etc. language. At home, I would speak Vietnamese, and at school, I would speak English. Although now I can’t speak Viet like I used to anymore once I started speaking English fully.</p>
<p>I disagree with removing foreign language out of high school. I didn’t gain an interest in learning other foreign languages until I was in my final year of high school. Sure, I took French and Spanish, but I never really cared much for them.</p>
<p>I just want to add…just because you fulfill the foreign language requirement in high school and college…is NO guarantee you will be “bilingual”. Many students fulfill that FL requirement and are NOT bilingual in any way shape or form. They have had exposure to a foreign language and it’s structure and vocabulary. That does NOT make one bilingual.</p>
<p>In my distinguished humble opinion, the only way to truly become bilingual is to actually LIVE someplace where that new language is the only one spoken. </p>
<p>Of course, there are those few very gifted FL students who absorb new languages like sponges. But I would venture that is NOT the norm.</p>
<p>DD started Spanish in third grade. She took it through honors Spanish 4 in high school. She took a college level course. She says…she was frustrated with the lack of emphasis on listening and speaking the language. Despite 9 years of Spanish, she never reached bilingual status.</p>
<p>She thought she was just ill suited to learning a foreign language. Ah…but then she joined the Peace Corps. She was fluent enough in Kinyarwanda, a language far more complex than the romance languages, within two months to move to her village. Within 6 months, she felt more than conversant in that language. There was NO choice…it’s all she heard most of the time in her village (although she was required to teach in English). It showed her that she was capable of becoming bilingual, but not through classroom instruction only.</p>
<p>A PE teacher who speaks Spanish doesn’t need to be gifted or certified as a foreign language teacher. After all, Spanish speaking parents teach their own children Spanish. When you immerse a child in a language by playing in that language, the child acquires it naturally. My kids weren’t born speaking anything, and I didn’t “teach” them English. I simply spoke to them in English. If you catch a child early enough, he or she can learn any language this way.</p>
<p>Hi Californiaa:
Let me tell you something about my background and I’ll explain why learning a new language is important.
I was raised by two traditional Chinese parents and I grew up speaking Mandarin Chinese. My family moved to the U.S when I was 13. I had a little background of English when I was in China, so I picked up English relatively faster than the average English learners. Then, when I go to high school, I took Spanish 1 and I love it!
Right now, I’m taking AP Spanish and my teacher said that almost 90% of her students got a 5 on the AP exam from the past (there is almost NO Hispanic students in my class at all). She also said that her students would be able to communicate fairly fluent with the native speakers once they finished the course. I’m really glad that I went to a school with a very rigorous AP program.
Now, back to the topic. I think the reason why you’re REQUIRED to take a second language class is because there are a lot of people like me who just love to learn a new language. For example, there are just some people who love science, math, social studies. But from the school standard, you have to take each one of these to some degree so that you know what you really like. For me, I think gym class should be an option instead of a requirement, but my school makes a requirement so that you’ll have a chance to experience what it is like. If gym class is an optional elective, guess what, people like me would not even bother to take it. As a result, I will never even know what gym class is about. Just like the language, you may not like it, but your school is trying to offer you as many “experience” as possible. You might hate a foreign language before you take because you think that it’s just another “useless” requirement, but some people fall in love with the language once they took the class (i.g: my experience with high school Spanish).
Secondly, you have to realize that a foreign language is extremely useful in many of the professional fields. Chinese economy is the second largest in the world (in term of GDP). If you want to pursue a business field, you better know some Chinese. The Hispanic population is booming in the U.S, you’ll eventually meet some native Spanish speakers in the hospital and you have to communicate with them if you want to pursue a medical field. Some people argue that you can always have a translator, but your boss will want you to be effective. Knowing a new language will make you stand out more in front of the other applicants.
Lastly, learning a language allows people to explore other cultures. I would never understand how people live in some Latin American countries if I didn’t take Spanish. While a lot of ignorant people were raging about illegal immigration in the U.S, I just felt bad about them. They are ignorant and they don’t understand how people struggle in the third world countries. Those ignorant beings don’t even give a look on the people who risk their life to come here. So, what I want to say is that learning a new language allows you to explore and understand more about other people around the globe. And most importantly, people can educate themselves (I don’t mean just excelling everything in the academic field), be more tolerated about diversity, and stop being ignorant.
Although I’m really obsessed with Spanish, I also understand that a new language is not just interesting but it’s extremely helpful and useful. However, I do agree that languages like French, Italian, Arabic, Russian, Korean, etc. are fun to learn, but they’re less useful when it comes to real life usage (no offense). Nonetheless, those languages I mentioned above can also allow you to explore other cultures. However, if you really want to learn a new language, learn the most important 5: English, Mandarin Chinese, Spanish, Japanese, and German.
I hope this helps!</p>
<p>A second language will help with job prospects in the future</p>
<p>I can think of several reasons to learn a second language in college. 1) Your career interests may include living/working in some other part of the world, 2) You didn’t have the opportunity to study that language in h.s. or 3) You have extra time to fill on your class schedule.</p>
<p>While in h.s. you may also have been undecided on a career and once in college that has become clearer. I don’t see anything wrong in doing any of those.</p>
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<p>Not much doubt about English, Chinese and Spanish. But Russian and French will take you a lot further globally than Japanese and German.</p>
<p>You are correct califaaa, that the best time to learn languages is in childhood, which is one reason we moved to Europe for our kids. However, how many parents have the foresight and how many kids have the drive to pursue the goal as you do?</p>
<p>Growing up, my parents did not value languages, so I wasn’t encouraged. I also wasn’t ready to make the effort and saw no reason why. Then, I moved to Europe after college, learned several languages because I was ready then, and it completely changed my life’s path. So, better late than never.</p>
<p>I agree that second language brings extra opportunities.</p>
<p>My point is, that HS+college are the least efficient and economic way to learn a new language. In my eyes, two most efficient ways are:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Early childhood, when language is learned naturally, with minimum instructions. You don’t need some structured instructions or even teachers. My kids speak only Spanish at home. When they started pre-school they didn’t know a word in English. One year later, they are fluent in English, without any classes, any instructions, any teachers. They just learned English from their peers in pre-school. </p></li>
<li><p>If this window is missed (or if a young adult wants to learn a second-third language), the best opportunity, in my opinion, is to go to the country, where this language is spoken. Luckily, with US passport one can travel (almost) anywhere. It will be cheaper to travel than to learn language in college. Plus, it is very easy for a student to find some employment abroad (teaching English, for example).</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I don’t think that a kids needs to master literary analysis and grammar to pass college level second language exam.</p>
<p>Speaking from the experience. I was honestly surprised, that my D. (9th grader) passed college level Spanish exam (got A) with minimal structured instructions in Spanish. She can read Spanish fluently, but she is reading kids books only. She can write in Spanish, mainly letters and postcards. </p>
<p>My impression is that college level Spanish is similar to a 4-th grader English for English speaker.</p>
<p>Travel. I wouldn’t even care if a language was required or not, it’s one of those special things you can learn in school and actually use in real life. Not only am I taking one or two languages in college, I have software programs I’ve been working on on my own for 5 other languages. I want to learn as many languages as possible.</p>
<p>I’m learning a foreign language simply because I enjoy it and am passionate about it.</p>
<p>I totally disagree that the best time to learn a language is childhood. The best time is whenever you are ready and willing to do it. That is the only time you will be capable of learning it in any meaningful way.</p>
<p>I totally disagree that learning a language is not “advanced”. Learning German to fluency took more time than every math class I’ve taken combined, and there were times when I was a lot more confused.</p>
<p>Your daughter did well in Spanish without classes because she had an authority on the language (you) guiding her. When a student isn’t fortunate enough to live with someone who speaks the language they want to learn, they can find that authority at school in the form of a teacher.</p>
<p>It’s a giant misconception that it’s easier for children to learn a second language than adults. If your daughters learn fluent Chinese before high school, that would mean it would take them about 12 years and about 2400 hours. An adult studying Chinese four hours per week should take roughly three years and ~650 hours to reach a decent level of fluency in spoken Chinese. That comes from what I’ve gleaned from the forums at how-to-learn-any-language.com </p>
<p>We see all of these Rosetta Stone commercials about how everyone should “learn like a baby” because it’s easier. Well what people forget is that it takes a baby ten years of 24/7 immersion to reach a reasonable level of fluency… not very impressive compared to what an adult can do. People like Prof. Alexander Arguelles speak 40+ languages and learned them all as an adult.</p>