Why liberal arts?

Transfer Students
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41

Thanks. I don’t mind where I work really. Honestly, I’m ok with the education I have now. it’s just I feel unsatisfied in that I don’t know what to make of it. I don’t love it, and am not interested in any linguistics-related careers. But, maybe if I opened up my mind a bit more to it or to uni life in general, then maybe my mom’s right - I could find more satisfaction in my experience and with my outlook in life - maybe, I don’t really believe that can happen for me without a liberal arts education.

so yeah I don’t really mind waiting a bit and maybe apply next year - I might even be at a competitive advantage for better schools. the downside is that some schools don’t allow you to forgo credits? and I’ll probably have to start junior year in a determined major.

@collegemom3717

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Ah thank you I actually did consider this cuz I quite like the philosophy of mind part of linguistics but my uni doesn’t really teach that - we have a rather unhealthy superstition/bias toward the Chomskyan theories, which is another thing that annoys me so much. But then again, Hopkins requires you to transfer into a specific major so what if I decide that I completely don’t want to do linguistics after all

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I wasn’t specifically recommending JHU- that is just the first line of that thread. The thread has a lot of suggestions of good LACs that offer some amount of linguistics. Even if you decided to choose another major it increases the chances that you will be able to get credit for some of your completed coursework if the LAC offers linguistics.

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My D is currently applying to transfer from a Scottish university to the US and we did discover one school in our research that requires application as a freshman rather than a transfer if you’re coming from a school outside the US: Wellesley. It’s a women’s liberal art college in Massachusetts. If you want the full four year LAC experience where none of your previous uni experience interferes you could look into it.

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45

Thank you! Will definitely consider. although it seems that application is going to be in January

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oh sorry I didn’t realize. very informative thread. thanks!

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Wellesley has ED (nov 1), ED2 (Jan 1) and RD (Jan 8). ED or early decision is binding…if you’re accepted you must attend, but you find out the decision in December for ED and February for ED2.

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Hey OP, I’m just replying to say that we’re almost in an identical situation! I’m a current student at one of the Oxbridge and I’m finding the course (I’m doing science as you can tell) too narrow and lacking humanity. I eventually chose to re-apply as a first year to one of the top LACs in the US under ‘undecided’ major, and luckily got accepted. Despite the extra time and cost I’m quite tempted to go there.

As people have mentioned earlier in the thread, the fear of unknown is real, ditching a prestigious degree is indeed daunting and I have no idea if liberal arts would work for me. I’m in the process of persuading myself to give it a go, since I already know that the current course in the UK isn’t too ideal for me.

Glad to know that I’m not the only one on the boat, and if there’s anything I can do to help OP navigate a bit through the process just hit reply :))

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Hi! thank you so much!! I’m at one of the Oxbridge too! Are you from the US? How did you manage to reapply as a first-year if you already had some credit? Which college were you accepted into? I don’t mind private messaging if you’d prefer. thank you so much!! :slight_smile:

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OP, I am not sure that you do quite understand what the liberal arts are.

The science you took in your (abandoned) first year: that was a liberal art.

The linguistic papers you are taking in your current first year: totally liberal arts.

If you started at a LAC in the US from the beginning, you would just about now, after two years of exploring, be expected to choose your major. Meaning you’d be expected to focus on something, even though altogether the classes in your major might make up only a third of your overall credits. But you can’t major in “liberal arts” and continue to take whatever. The benefits of exploring across the curriculum really accrue in the first two years only.

Would you really want to start over? And pay 100,000 USD in tuition to take science gen eds at the level of your biochem IB just to “explore”?What’s stopping you exploring subjects on your own? You already know lab based sciences aren’t for you, what’s stopping you reading books about philosophy (or finding out whether your history of ideas on language paper might satisfy that philosophy itch) or exploring art on your own?

The great thing about an Oxbridge degree is that no one expects you to actually work in that field ever again. Consulting, banking, business, communications, journalism, politics, law: for those fields, it just works like a liberal arts degree in the US.

You said you’re an English non native, but I assume it still means home student status. Gritting your teeth and finishing that degree at Oxbridge will cost your parents tuition fees of exactly 18,500 GBP, that’s 26,000 USD. Vs 100,000 USD (if you were to start as a junior) or even 200,000 USD (if you managed to start as a freshman to get the full “exploring” experience.

You insist your parents would pay to make you happy. But expecting them to do so would make you naive, and spoilt.

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[The post was meant to be a reply to OP, not to Tigerle, a wrong click, sorry]

This is going to be a big adventure, a culture clash, etc. Why don’t you double on it, and instead of going from England to New England, look at Claremont, CA consortium, so you have a world-class small college experience AND an escape from the LAC-induced claustrophobia AND the wonderful weirdness of the West Coast AND skiing and surfing on the same day.
A hint: Pomona seems quite partial to Oxbridge.

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52

I think a couple big questions that need to be answered by the OP is “what do I want out of life and what goals do I have in life?”

I agree that the English system (where, with a few exceptions, undergrad is essentially junior grad school) is not great for students who want to explore different interests and figure out what they like (Scottish system is a bit better in this regard, though still not as flexible as the North American system).

Speaking of which, I wouldn’t ignore the undergrad-focused liberal arts unis (they’re essentially public LACs) in Canada, like Mount Allison, which has produced more Rhodes Scholars than any American LAC.
They would be cheaper than full-pay at a private LAC in the US (possibly on par with a private LAC with scholarship).

But the benefit of a LAC is mostly in the first 2 years. You’re expected to find a major by your 3rd of 4 years.

BTW, in the UK, both KCL and Warwick offer a Liberal Arts degree and UCL has a Social Sciences degree.

But honestly, even if you aren’t in love with Linguistics, remember that your life doesn’t end at undergrad. You could always explore a masters program (or many). They don’t have to be in linguistics. You can explore masters programs in the US. Business programs tend to be pretty generalistic and cover various fields, for instance. Can you articulate what you dislike about studying linguistics and what about “the liberal arts” (which, BTW, yes, both linguistics and the sciences would fall under) you find attractive?

And where do you have citizenship/permanent residency? In terms of working, it’s not so much where you want to as much where can you. If you’re not American and not studying CS (or a quantitative grad degree), staying in the US and finding a job will be very challenging (unless you marry an American).

Given all that, I’m not all that sure of the wisdom of trying to transfer to the US (or starting all over again), spending a ton of money, giving up an Oxbridge degree, and then what, exactly? Would that leave you better off than staying at Oxbridge to finish up? How exactly?

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53

Thank you. And thanks to @Tigerle. After some months of thinking I actually agree with most of what you said. so I’m gonna be honest, one big thing was that I thought LACs would give me a chance to go into the fine arts - which I regret having given up in high school. I was the best student in my pre-IB art class, but my parents wanted me to do science. But now I realize that it’s too late and what’s lost is lost. A second chance would be no more than wishful thinking.

As for linguistics, the more I get to know about it, the more I feel maybe it’s not that bad. I’ve been doing some - very preliminary - research for grad school, but I don’t see how you can go into a different field and compete with people who already spent 3-4 years doing, say, philosophy at undergrad. I’m also interested in creative writing, but I’m English non-native and did not major in English lit. and as an introvert I’m definitely not interested in Business, law, consulting etc. computational linguistics seems interesting, but you’re right in that if I want to stay in the US I need a CS degree, and again I don’t see how that works at grad level without an undergrad.

So, liberal arts or not, I guess I’m pretty lost.

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I would advise you to stop shutting off opportunities in your head before you even research them.

For instance, being an introvert doesn’t mean you can’t have a business career. It may surprise you to know that a large percentage of F500 CEOs are actually both analytical and introverted. Not being comfortable with something shouldn’t mean not improving in that area. If you’re semi-illiterate, you don’t just say “Well, I’m uncomfortable reading at a 2nd grade level. Guess I shouldn’t try to improve in that area and just dig ditches.” As an introvert (which I am too), you’d want your alone time to recharge, but that doesn’t mean you should just shut the door on huge swaths of fields. Anything (public speaking, communication, sales, math, writing) gets better and more comfortable with practice.

With that spiel out of the way, yes, computational linguistics looks like an avenue. Have you talked to your advisor/tutor about how you can become competitive for those types of masters programs?

I believe there also exist CS masters programs that take undergrads who didn’t study CS.

BTW, plenty of business masters programs take undergrads who studied something not related to business at all. But you should have some interest in some areas there (I find plenty in that extremely large and diverse sphere to be interested in).

Finally, nothing is stopping you from pursuing fine arts as a hobby on your own time. I know that in Chicago, there’s some organization where anyone can sign up for drawing/painting classes. I have to believe that exists in many cities.

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I believe that the problem here is not your linguistics course, but that you just generally are unsure what to do with your life. And that’s okay! You’re 20! And there’s a pandemic on!

What’s not okay would be to spend 100s of 1000s of your parents money to be feel better about being unsure for another two years, because it’s culturally more acceptable.

Believe me, a good number of those seemingly incredibly focused undergrads around you are faking it. I have seen enough Oxbridge grads drift around at 21, trying out various things until they found their way. And there are loads of incredibly focused undergrads at US
LACs to make you feel bad about yourself. And you might hate core courses and gen Ed’s, So don’t look to culture to validate you.

Having done IB, you have actually had a much better chance to explore a full range of subjects than your friends who may have mostly done A levels, and probably at a comparable level to most college freshmen in the US.

Linguistics is actually incredibly broad, there is history, psychology, philosophy, sociology, childhood development…you’re done with the preliminaries and with the 6 papers you can choose the next two years, you can explore all these adjacent fields. Hate the Chomskyist approach? Find the right grad program in philosophy and linguistics. Computational linguistics is also only really taught at grad level, so if that interests you, there will be a program that you can access - you’ll have money left over after undergrad.

And if art is your destination, you will find out. Professional artists, musicians, writers will tell you that it is the route to pursue if you find that you can’t NOT do art, play music, write…not because you did well in it in pre IB. Because it’s the route to being unsure and financially insecure for the rest of your life. If there’s anything else you can do to pay the rent, do your art as a hobby and see where it leads you.

Just do not expect an introductory class in philosophy aimed at college freshmen to give you the epiphany you’re looking for.

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With CS, there are no guarantees that you will stay in the US. None. So your goal is find any field of study to stay and live in the US?
If CS is not in your heart, you wont do well in it. Studying a career, in a half-hearted manner, does not bode well for you. The courses are analytical and tough. You have to have the ability to immediately problem-solve and work in teams. Work hours are long-weekend work occurs often.

Sponsorship for a Visa relies on a company willing to employ and sponsor you. US companies don’t want the hassle of paperwork and fees to sponsor a non-citizen when there are so many US students who are studying CS and are immediately employable. Many CS companies have websites that post that they are not in the position to hire or sponsor non-citizens. Lots of their contracts are government sponsored which require US security clearances.

I would advise you to take @Publisher’s advice and try to come to the US as a visiting student via your current university. In this way, you can take a few courses and then return to your uni and finish your program. Taking some time away from your university, may help you eventually decide your area of specialization.

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It’s not that hard to stay at Oxbridge for a couple more years if you don’t know what you want to do career wise and can afford to pay for another degree (or are good enough that your college will fund you). The smartest guy I knew as an undergrad decided to do a second degree in philosophy for the sake of it, after graduating with a maths degree. I stayed to do a PhD for fun, because I didn’t want to get a job.

But there are definitely plenty of exchange options to spend a year in the US between your second and third year of undergrad, which are an inexpensive way to get a different experience, and if you are adding a year to your course (which is typical) then you can pretty much do what you like while you are there.

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Thank you. the thing is, I feel like if anything ever can be “in my heart” it would be on the creative side. everything else is the same for me. so if I can’t do art I’d just be earning a living then yes I’d prefer to live in the US if possible - although I agree CS might not be right for me, my options seem pretty limited as an English non-native doing linguistics and not STEM.

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Note that STEM job and career prospects in the US are mostly good for engineering and CS graduates, not so much for biology and chemistry graduates.

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Again, I’d advise you not to be so rigid in your thinking. There are a decent number of STEM fields where creativity is a bonus. For instance, UI/UX design. Also data science where data can be so much as to be incomprehensible so creatively making connections and telling stories with data would get you far.

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