<p>So a friend of mine was admitted into MIT under Early Action, and has just recently been admitted into Stanford and Dartmouth under Regular Decision. He's asked for my opinion, because he doesn't know much about Stanford, but I can only offer him personal experiences being on the campus during a summer program, some generic information about the school, and a few facts here and there.</p>
<p>So the question is, where do you think he should attend? But being in this MIT forum, what would you tell him about MIT to convince him to attend versus the other two schools? </p>
<p>A few things about him: he wants to play football (not the top priority, and knows that he's not good enough for Stanford, but can definitely play at MIT or Dartmouth), he's either considering engineering or economics, and we live in a small-time city on the coast of GA and go to a small school that doesn't so often have these kinds of acceptances. Also, originally, he was considering Dartmouth over MIT for the following reasons: they have a better football team, a better campus (to him at least), and it's an Ivy. If he attends Stanford, he'll probably go into economics.</p>
<p>Feel free to ask questions if need to for a better response. But any kind of opinion is welcomed. </p>
<p>MIT, Stanford and Dartmouth are all schools where one can get a great education. As to which one your friend, or anyone else, should attend is a personal choice. Unfortunately, it is also somewhat a shot in the dark. You won’t know what it is truly like until you live it. It will depend on which classes you take, what friends you make, the location, the weather, and all the other experiences that go with attending any college. </p>
<p>Whatever decision is made, just go with it and don’t look back. </p>
<p>You are picking a home for four years. If you can afford it, go to visit. Attend CPW if you can. Some schools will have an atmosphere that you will find invigorating, and other schools decidedly will not. Pick the school that feels like you can prosper there.</p>
<p>Well, MIT does seem to optimize what he wants, in terms of having world-class departments in both engineering and economics, and having a football team that would allow him to play. (He’s been recruited at Dartmouth? Or he’s assuming he’ll be able to walk on?)</p>
<p>Like others, I would really encourage him to visit or attend admitted students’ weekends if he’s able. The atmospheres of these three schools are pretty different. </p>
<p>I also hope, for the record, that he doesn’t pick Dartmouth over Stanford and MIT “because it’s an Ivy”. </p>
<p>I just want to make something clear here.</p>
<p>For the record, I’m actually not trying to convince him to go anywhere. I actually posted this same question in the Stanford and Dartmouth forums (but swapped out “MIT” with “Stanford” and “Dartmouth”), because I know those in the Dartmouth forum have a tendency to be biased towards Dartmouth, and Stanford in the Stanford forums, and MIT in MIT’s. You all, in each respective forums, are the ones that know the schools best, since it’s where you plan on attending or apply to or dream of; it only makes sense that you want to go to Dartmouth, MIT, or Stanford for a reason. What exactly is that reason? For example, I’m going to Cal, and I lurk around in Berkeley’s forum often and know more about Berkeley, because that’s where I want to go; it’s only sensible that I know plenty about it.</p>
<p>So again, I 100% understand that it’s not my right to make any kind of decision for my friend or should even try to convince him to go anywhere, because I don’t know him as well as he knows himself. But he’s simply asking for my opinion, and as a good friend, I want to give him a good opinion that’s been made after knowing several facts and pros and cons of each school. An opinion that’s grounded with a strong base of facts and reasoning.</p>
<p>Maybe I phrased the question wrong, and that’s my fault, so I guess I’m pretty much asking all of you, people with some knowledge of MIT (I’m assuming), what makes MIT better than Dartmouth and Stanford in your eyes? </p>
<p>OP, I think there’s a little loss when someone gets coveted acceptances and then admits he may not know one or all well enough to decide. Or that the primary decision point may be football, for someone not likely to go that direction professionally. He needs to look at courses, breadth and depth available, the professors’ interests and activity, research and other engagement opps. And throw in his back-up academic interests, in case a first choice major doesn’t hold his interests. Three very different schools.</p>
<p>It’s hard to give advice without knowing more about the OP’s friend. </p>
<p>What sorts of things was he involved in in high school? In high school, was he content to get a solid “A” and spend his spare time in his ECs, Or was he reaching for something higher academically?</p>
<p>@collegealum314</p>
<p>My friend has been the Student Council class president all four years in a row, has played varsity football, swimming, and soccer all four years (a captain this year in all of them and has various awards and honors in athletics), a board of director of our Youth Leo Club, varsity Math Team, commissioned to Cadet Lieutenant Colonel and a Battalion Commander in our JROTC program, did Mock Trial for awhile, and National Honor Society vice president. </p>
<p>You can really see the leader in him in whatever he does, and is extremely hard working and intelligent. Not to mention being quite the athlete (just not good enough to play Division I football). Unfortunately, our school doesn’t have so many extracurricular activities or at least ones that are very “active.” We have a pretty good athletics program, but it really has just taken off this year. We come from a small (300+ students total), private, Catholic, military school in the Southeast.</p>
<p>Aside from all of these in-school activities, I know one of his hobbies is surfing, which he does occasionally. Otherwise, he simply enjoys being around the company of friends on his free time when he’s not hitting the books or practicing hard on the fields of play. </p>
<p>Thoughts?</p>
<p>Is he clearly the best person on the school math team? How has he done in math competitions?</p>
<p>Does he really like humanities or would he describe himself as artistic?</p>
<p>There are people at MIT who were just well-rounded and don’t have a need to spend hours and hours pushing themselves academically, and some of them do have a good experience. However, engineering is going to require a huge commitment, much moreso than even at Stanford. Some will deny this on the Stanford board, but it’s the truth; I know a ton of people who have gone to Stanford. Economics is not quite as taxing at MIT as long as you are good at math. He could also major in management at MIT and have more of a well-rounded life. From what you have told me so far, he could have a good well-rounded college experience at MIT as an economics or management major. If he really wants the hardcore engineering experience, than MIT definitely offers that, but it’s not clear from your profile that he would want that.</p>
<p>@collegealum314</p>
<p>I was the founder of the school’s Math Team, and it was founded this year. I can definitely say that my friend is the best person on the Math Team. As far as competitions go, we do pretty well for ourselves, but none of us have won anything this year. </p>
<p>Personally, from my perspective, my friend, when it comes to Math, picks up on it really quickly, and then he only needs a slight bit of practice and then pretty much has a mastery of it. He’s a very level-headed kind of guy, so not only does he thinks outside of the box when it comes to any kind of concept, but he clearly sees all other perspectives. I recall multiple times in class, when we’re given an assignment, he’s got a mastery of the concept, so instead of following a certain method consistently to solve a problem, he’ll think of other ways to solve it that were not taught in class. Not to mention, he can be a very analytical person when he needs to be.</p>
<p>Sorry if I’m making this difficult! He really should be the one describing himself to you. But then again… Sometimes, people see certain parts of you that you don’t… Hahaha</p>
<p>^No, you are doing a very good job describing your friend. It sounds like he could be a good match for MIT. At this point he should just do some college visits and see if he likes the vibe at each place and decide what sort of college experience he would prefer.</p>
<p>@collegealum314</p>
<p>Well thank you for your comments! I’ll be sure to show them to him! He’s a very ambitious person and really isn’t scared to “Shoot for the stars.” Just the idea of being successful is enough to drive him to work hard in everything that he does. But again, thanks!</p>
<p>I went to MIT and one of my closest friends in high school went to Harvard. I spent a fair amount of time a mile up the road visiting her and she similarly spent some time on the MIT campus. One day I turned to her and I told her that I never really enjoyed being at Harvard, that to me Harvard always felt a little bit pretentious in a way that was not completely comfortable to me. She turned to me, and explained that she had always felt exactly the same way about her time on the MIT campus. And it is true. MIT is no less pretentious, but its a very, very different kind of pretension, and one that I was personally very comfortable with. I always felt very much at home on the MIT campus.
There is no “best” school. There may or may not be a best match for each individual student. For me, MIT was absolutely the best school. But without knowing who you really are, nobody here can tell you which school is right for you. All three are excellent schools. </p>
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<p>Sure thing. I did peruse your threads on the Dartmouth and Stanford forum, and I just want to correct one thing. Dartmouth does not have better links to Wall Street than MIT and it’s not accurate to say Wall Street prefer ivies. In fact, it’s the opposite. “Quants” from MIT are easily preferred the most out of your list, definitely compared to Dartmouth. However, you still have to have a good GPA, which is harder at MIT compared to Dartmouth or Stanford. But you may get a Wall Street job from all three, so you shouldn’t rule out anything based on what Wall Street firms would prefer more.</p>
<p>The other things about Dartmouth’s commitment to undergraduate education is accurate; it has a lot of similarities to a small college in that respect. And your professors from your classes do have a better chance of knowing you personally.<br>
MIT does care about undergrad education too; some of your TAs may actually be world-class professors. But it’s different–sometimes it can feel like an assembly line going at 100 mph. This might be more the case in engineering; the guys in economics that I knew didn’t seem like they were under stress.<br>
And I have to say that your choice of major matters more at MIT; you might be marginally interested at another school and it can be ok, but you better be interested in what you are studying at MIT. Because they are going to turn the “firehose” on you and you will flooded with it. </p>
<p>And since your friend is into sports, Dartmouth does have its own ski mountain. I actually almost went to Dartmouth, so I spent a fair amount of time researching it back in the day. While MIT does have some good humanities classes, it definitely feels like a more natural place to discover literature at Dartmouth or Stanford than the more urban environs at MIT. Dartmouth also has the D-plan, which means you are expected to spend one semester abroad. This could be a good thing or a bad thing.</p>
<p>Concerning engineering, as you probably know MIT is the gold standard in that regard. Stanford is also known for it and you will get a good education there too, although in general MIT classes will have a higher workload and be harder (probably would be contested on the Stanford forum.) The one engineering major at Stanford which I would be uncomfortable with if I actually wanted to work as an engineer is Chemical engineering; it’s designed more for premeds that want to have a taste of chem E rather than those who want to work in it. You probably would be better off education-wise in chemical engineering with a good state flagship rather than Stanford. On the other hand, Stanford may be a better for software entrepeneurs due to its proximity to silicon valley, the fact they may have much more spare time to engage in such ventures, and the fact that the comp sci. major does not require you to learn electrical engineering. In general, they give you more space to think or pursue other interests at Stanford than at MIT. Dartmouth has a general engineering major, designed to be more holistic. When I attended the prof’s talk on Dartmouth engineering, they said that the students designed a product and marketed it to a business. You definitely get more personal attention, but its a different animal. You are definitely taking somewhat of a chance if you really want to be an engineer (there are a lot of people who major in engineering that intend to go to medical school or into business.) However, sometimes you do have to go against what society assumes is the best step to choose what is best for your development.</p>
<p>My one criticism about MIT is that I feel it sometimes does not care enough about undergraduate education. </p>
<p>Take the case of former MIT profession Eric Hudson. He used to teach Physics II (8.02), re-invented how the course was taught at MIT from a boring lecture-hall format to an interactive, group participation experience. After professor Hudson restructured the teaching format, more students began passing this class… and doing well in this class. Professor Hudson also held frequent, regular office hours, where he helped students understand concepts that they might be having trouble with.</p>
<p>Prof. Hudson became one of the most popular teachers at MIT. He won teaching awards. But, ultimately he did not get tenure, because MIT prioritizes research and endowment over teaching and improving undergraduate education.</p>
<p>I love MIT. I think it is a great school that offers many opportunities. But, I do think that it has its flaws. </p>
<p>As a different MIT professor told me, it is not about what the school can do for you, it is about what you can do for the school</p>
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<p>Most students, in my experience, did not like TEAL. You sat in circles around a table full of computers. There were screens around the room. During the lecture portion, you’d be craning your head awkwardly to try to look at one of the screens. It was “interactive” because there was a clicker question every once in a while. You’d do “group exercises” that always ended up with one person taking charge and solving the problem while the rest watch.</p>
<p>Hudson’s a good lecturer, I’ll agree to that! But the TEAL format was not an improvement.</p>
<p>It is true that not everyone liked TEAL.</p>
<p>However, most classmates I knew preferred TEAL over traditional lectures. </p>
<p>The old lecture format was marred with low attendance.
Moreover, the failure rate of students dropped by over 50% in TEAL courses versus their pre-TEAL lecture formats… which I think is a plus for TEAL.</p>
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<p>Making attendance mandatory leading to high attendance doesn’t actually mean people liked it better.</p>
<p>Some people also felt that learning standards were lowered in TEAL, which can account for a higher pass rate. Not sure how accurate that is. </p>
<p>These three schools are so, so, so culturally different that your friend should really attend admitted students weekends for all three and/or at the very least visit their campus. </p>
<p>It might be expensive, but the up front cost is much, much, much less than the expected value of potentially making the suboptimal decision. </p>