<p>Bay, I think you are so far off base with that over-characterization that you are out for being out of the base-path altogether. You may be out for not even being in the vicinity of the playing field.</p>
<p>I agree with Hunt, though. Apart from the mom in the other thread, who is so anxious to slot her 9th grader into something she is pushing set design, of all things, I think there are a lot of kids declaring majors in science or math who desperately wish they could study something else.</p>
<p>Bay, That is one of those misperceptions that just doesn’t seem to go away. It is true for some probably but nowhere near all(or probably even most). Both my sons are into engineering-both are social, athletic, popular guys with lots of friends. Older guy was a frat guy who had lots of fun in college and younger is having fun in college now. Both ended up at public schools with a big sports scene . Neither would have had any interest at all in a smaller tech type school.</p>
<p>Well, both my father and brother were engineers (one with a world-wide partnership), so I have had some second-hand exposure to that lifestyle, but of course that is a sample of 2.</p>
<p>Careers as accountants, actuaries, researchers, even doctors in private practice do not appear to offer much in broad public relations-type opportunities. Perceptions are important, even if they are wrong, because it means there is work to be done about it. But I will shut-up now since I have been declared “out.”</p>
<p>This is it in a nutshell. My D’s college doesn’t even offer graduation credit for the one unit lab portion of a science class. STEM major have to work much harder in general, for the same gpa. Only but the top or really driven students will continue on in a curriculum that purposely tries to weed them out.</p>
<p>But then we’ve had this discussion on cc before, and many parents said that it was ok to curve kids out of STEM coursework.</p>
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<p>Sure, but what about a topic that DOES interest you? Perhaps society be better off if many students — who were interested – took some real science classes in college (not rocks for jocks to fulfill a GE)? Instead, even with an interest, the same students are told, ‘not for the faint at heart…’</p>
<p>JHS. your comment is unfair. This is a free site to inquire and get ideas. I am not pushing my daughter to study set design… I was merely getting information about an interest she has. She is creative and has a passion that I want her to explore while there is still time. Sure I would like her to study science, which she is good at. I will have her explore that option also. She is currently already taking an AP Science in 9th grade. I want her to think about all her options and also the type of life these options will eventually lead to. </p>
<p>I work with a lot of engineers and finance professionals. There are lot of burned out people by 35 who wish they were doing something else. I have a business degree myself with an accounting background . Yes, there are a few who really love their chosen field and are not in it for the money. You get the best out of people when they love what they do. I cannot tell you how many doctors I have been to that I wish had never chosen the profession.</p>
<p>It’s an advantage to be an introvert, especially in college. However, it’s completely wrong to say that these fields do not deal a whole lot of human interaction. Math is the one field where it might be true, but the rest, no. </p>
<p>Once you get to graduate school, you work in a lab where you will need to learn important things from your colleagues, things which are not intuitive (how to do a procedure, work a machine.) When an experiment doesn’t work out, you will have to troubleshoot it with other people. If you are not able to do these things, no matter how smart you are, you will fail. It’s also useful that you actually socialize wih your colleagues when not at work; if you aren’t friends with them, they might not be as generous with their time during work</p>
<p>While someone brilliant can get away with being somewhat shy or unskilled socially, it is definitely an advantage to have social skills. And those skills are useful once you become a faculty member.</p>
<p>However, it’s worth pointing out that the personality which would make you popular in a sorority or a fraternity is not the same as would make you popular in an engineering firm or lab. Having a certain gravitas is necessary. I knew people who seemed like they would have been very popular in a sorority and were competent that were despised by their lab groups because they came off too unserious. They ended up dropping out of grad school.</p>
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I wonder how many of these are being pressured into something like pre-med versus subjects like physics and chemical engineering. [/quoe]</p>
<p>Right, I agree. Anyime there is a field viewed as “more practical,” there will be people in it for the wrong reasons. There are doctors who don’t really like biology. Also, there are engineers who liked math and science and then were pushed into engineering…</p>
<p>Well, collegalum, Another generalization, this time about fraternity and sorority people. My kid was in a frat and has been in the workplace since 09’. Last review he was rated at the highest level, in the 95th percentile of those being reviewed. Most people hopefully know how to behave on the job, even frat guys!</p>
<p>Re: being pushed into engineering. Neither of my kids was pushed at all. Their dad and granddad were engineers so it just seemed to come naturally but there was no pushing at all to enter the field.</p>
<p>Just got back from a lunch with my old chemistry buddies from a previous job. We laughed, we schmoozed, we gossipped - it was great. Very lively and very sociable, especially for a bunch of antisocial nerds who avoid human interaction.</p>
<p>S2 had and enjoyed extensive course work in AP calculus, chemistry, physics, etc. in high school. He is now a very happy philosophy major in college. Wasn’t there something about leading a horse to water…? </p>
<p>Actually, many HS classmates were being pressured into physics/math and chemE as much as pre-med or EE/CS. Not only was this due to the perception of “being practical”…but also a case of demonstrating “superior intelligence”. What’s more…the pressure wasn’t always from the parents…but often just as much/more from fellow classmates…especially those in the top 1/3 of the graduating class. </p>
<p>Yes, this was partially part and parcel of attending a STEM-centered NYC public magnet high school. </p>
<p>Fortunately, just as many kids were turned off by that STEM==superior non-STEM==inferior attitudes…including many aspiring STEM majors(Mostly EE/MechE/CS) in the top 20% of the graduating class. We’re the ones who tended to tell others we’re dropping out to be beach bums in California when others ask about graduation plans despite receiving acceptances to some pretty respectable/elite colleges. :D</p>
<p>Re collegealum314’s post #47: It’s true that the personal characteristics leading to “popularity” do often differ in science and engineering vs. some other areas/venues, even if the sorority/fraternity generalization has its counterexamples. Most of the scientists I know–who are well liked now–had a number friends in high school, but weren’t in the really popular group.</p>
<p>Oh, come on now. HS students “pressured” other HS students to major in X or Y? I don’t buy it for a minute. Your world, cobrat, is always so chock full of other people ostensibly pressuring others about everything under the sun.</p>
<p>QuantMech, My sons were both in the “really popular group” in high school. Both over 700 in Math. Older son was actually Big Man on Campus (as he jokingly said) as 2 sport athlete with 780 on Math SAT, 800 on Math and Physics SAT 2’s ,5 on AP Physics and BC calculus,etc. He did tend to lay low in high school about how bright he really was though which shouldn’t have to happen. Kids need to see that even popular kids can be cool and be interested in science and math. Being popular and good in math and science is not mutually exclusive My guess is that people will gravitate to different areas of science and math depending on their personalities. For instance, a more introverted engineer or scientist may choose a field that involves more solitary work where a more outgoing engineer or scientist might be more interested in something like consulting or something that requires more teamwork. As I said though, that is just a guess.</p>
<p>If you’re a great athlete, particularly in the marquee sports (football, basketball,) it’s easier to be in the “in” group in high school without too much extra effort…</p>
<p>That was part of the culture at my STEM-centered public magnet. </p>
<p>There was the strong perception that the “smartest” went into physics/math/pre-med, next came the engineering/CS folks, and then everyone else. Then again, this wouldn’t have been too much of a shock after 4 years of being in a school culture where the math team members and Westinghouse/Intel Science Finalists/Semi-finalists were considered the coolest kids in the school. </p>
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<p>That was certainly not an issue at STEM-centered public magnet high schools like the one I attended in NYC, our NYC rival, or peer schools like TJSST. If anything, excelling academically…especially in math and science was a requirement for being a popular kid in such schools.</p>