Why NOT to go to CMU

Colleges and Universities A-Z Carnegie Mellon University
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Word of advice for people interested in a college- always look at reasons not to go there. I sure wish I had.
Anyway, here are my reasons to not attend Carnegie Mellon, based off my recently completed undergrad education.

First, a short bio that might help with perspective. I majored in a STEM subject.

The people. CMU is a magnet for nerdy/weird people, not much of a surprise there. But what I didn’t expect is that some of these people are so antisocial and awkward that it’s hard to be friends with them. Many people come off as unfriendly and aloof. It’s a common experience to meet someone and have them not acknowledge you when you walk past them later, which is much different than I’ve experienced anywhere else. Social life for many people is nonexistent. And I hate to bring it up, but the ugliness is real. You don’t want to be spending the prime of your life surrounded by people who look like zombies from the walking dead. I didn’t think I cared about this at first, but it’s human nature.

The environment. CMU is located in Pittsburgh, which has the cloudiest weather outside Seattle in the US. In college, you spend a lot of time outside/walking, which amplifies this factor. Pittsburgh itself is a rusting old city, and while some parts of it may be nice, CMU’s campus and surroundings definitely aren’t uplifting.

The workload. Its every bit as horrible as you’d expect. Even if you can spare one weekend evening not studying, chances are your friends will be busy cramming for the next midterm. Midterms are not actually once a semester. They’re every few weeks. I had a semester with a major exam every week. Sometimes you neglect studying for one thing to study for something else. And in the end, it’s not really worth it because you won’t ever use what you learned. Also, I will have to take out loans to pay for med school because my college fund was squandered on this place. Maybe, possibly, if you are in CS or ECE, the name of the school may be enough motivation to take the plunge, but anything else, forget about it!

The general vibe. It’s toxic. People are hypercompetitive. The averages in classes are astronomically high. Everyday you look on social media and see your friends at other colleges having the time of their lives. Ultimately, your sacrifices are mostly in vain, as you may land a similar job as someone from anywhere else that worked 1/10th of what you did and probably paid a whole lot less too. Far worse is the prospect that you’ll burn out and do even worse than if you hadn’t gone here in the first place. Even if you think you’re tough like I did, don’t risk it. People graduate CMU having regressed socially, eyesight degraded, sleep deprived, and generally unhealthy. People sit and study for so long, many people walk in weird shuffles or bounces. Don’t believe me? Take a tour of the campus.

Sure, there’s people who have different experiences here. From what I can tell, many of them are trying to make the best of a bad situation- the justification of effort mentality. Instead of accepting the reality that they paid hundreds of thousands of dollars and years of their life to suffer in the depressing hole of CMU, they change their idea of CMU and say, “hey, it’s not so bad! I’m having a good time here!”. I’ve even given in to this mindless coping mechanism when prospective students stop me on campus. Some people, of course, are super-geniuses and actually thrive in extreme conditions. But from my experience, most people at CMU are hard working, not brilliant like you would find at an ivy league or MIT. That’s why they’re not there, and it’s also why CMU is always nobody’s first choice school.

Please, don’t make the same mistake as I did. If you are accepted to this school, go visit the campus. Do your research. Try asking trusted students/alums their most honest opinions.

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Useful advice to look for unkempt zombies doing odd shuffles around campus. I’ll keep an eye out if my kids want to tour.

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I don’t have any feelings about CMU, one way or the other, but I kind of appreciate notes like this…they feel more truthful than what we regularly hear about these colleges that accept less than 20% of their applicants. it doesn’t mean that other students will feel the same way about this college…but it was the reality for this student…so that’s of value. (also, OP, you’re a good writer :slight_smile: I too look forward to the CMU shuffle.

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Yes, if you are targeting medical school, I think going into a rigorous school like CMU would not be a best bet, since GPA is upmost importance. You are probably better off going to school like Brown where 2/3 of the people get As.

In terms of environment and workload, yes, I agree. Pittsburgh has such a crappy weather that I have literally gotten sick because of it (freaken summer weather in February then snow in March). The workload is absolutely intensive. I don’t remember doing many things there other than study (I do waste a lot of time surfing web though).

But one thing I disagree strongly is the toxic vibe. In no way is CMU (at least as a CS major for me) like Wharton where people are ripping out pages of textbooks. In general, people are pretty collaborative and friendly. At least for my CS classes, they don’t do any grade deflation and do inflation most of the time. This means that >90 is a guaranteed A but usually the cut off for A is lower. In terms of sleep deprivation and unhealthy nature, for the few people I spoke with from other colleges, it isn’t too different (although could be less common). In general, saying everyone (or even most people) who graduate from CMU result in social regression and eyesight degradation is a huge exaggeration. While I haven’t graduated yet, I know many people who has that turned out pretty well.

Lastly, I would like to comment on “most people at CMU are hard working, not brilliant like you would find at an ivy league or MIT.” This claim has absolutely no factual support and is more of the author perception. I met people with ivies and MIT and not everyone there is Richard Feynman either (in fact, I know people at CMU that turned down ivies, myself included). In addition, there are plenty of geniuses at CMU (although probably not as many as MIT). This is supported by the Putnam scores every year where CMU is placed top along with MIT, Harvard, Princeton, etc.

Now, with that being said, the stress culture at CMU definitely exists. I just think it is the result of the crappy living condition (most students level off campus for a reason) and intensive workload. I don’t think the people at CMU is the problem.

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@idkName No one is ripping out pages in textbooks at Wharton, nor likely any school for that matter. Top programs with curved classes have competitive environments. I’m sure it’s similar at Penn, CMU, and a variety of other schools.

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Parent here: Just want to say that there is certainly not across the board grade deflation at CMU – that is an empirical fact. Check out the length of the Dean’s list in the various colleges to test this hypothesis. By my analysis, half of Dietrich’s undergrads are on the honors + high honors list – that means that half the undergrads have over a 3.5, and half of those have over a 3.8 My DS so far has a GPA that would be high enough to be competitive in med school (he is not interested, but his GPA would also be competitive for top law schools or grad schools, which may be a more likely aspiration.)

My son’s impression is that high grades require excellent time management skills. I am certain those skills are also required at MIT, Harvard, and Penn.

Sure, the weather isn’t great. I can say from personal experience that the weather is also pretty darn dismal at University of Michigan, and U Chicago. I had a tremendously miserable cold rainy conference at Harvard one year, where each day I walked into the auditorium covered in mud, and several other visits to Harvard that were cursed with horrible weather. But please, don’t go to any of these cities (Pittsburgh, Boston, Chicago, or Ann Arbor) for the weather.

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@lmao2018 Are you sure no one? I heard from Penn students. The myth originated somewhere. Anyways, most of the competitiveness are in business schools. Most of the time, engineering school, although rigorous, isn’t necessary competitive.

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CMU is one of the top CS and engineering schools in the country. Totally agree that opting to go there for pre-med is probably an uphill battle. That said, many other schools also fall into this category.

Schools in NW and Central NY, W PA, and N OH all have the same gloomy weather. Not a good reason to hate on the school.

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@idkName You’ve heard from Penn students that people rip pages out of textbooks? That’s absurd. Beyond the competition aspect, where I’d argue that engineering students are actually much more grade obsessed than business students, the vast majority of Wharton classes don’t even require textbooks that you could rip the pages out of. Sorry for the tangent away from CMU, it just always strikes me odd when people with no association to a school “rip” it for seemingly no reason.

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When I taught at Penn, I never heard of or saw anyone do anything remotely that competitive directed against other students. We always had a few grade grubbers in my classes, and a sometimes an entitled athlete would get rather belligerent. That was the worst of it.

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@lmao2018 I’m not ripping off the school? It is just an example of what I heard from other school, and using it as a counter example for why CMU isn’t the most competitive school. But yeah, rumors are probably rumors (probably started from a post like this). In no way was my intent to rip off the school. Penn is a great school and I would totally go there.

P.S
I’m not saying business students are more grade obsessed than engineering students (I disagree that Engineering students are more grades obsessed though). I’m only stating Wharton as an example because I literally spoke with a student from Penn about the rumor, and he basically responded with “oh it isn’t bad in Engineering, that is Wharton.”

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IDKname

“You are probably better off going to school like Brown where 2/3 of the people get As.”

“In no way is CMU (at least as a CS major for me) like Wharton where people are ripping out pages of textbooks”.

“I know people at CMU that turned down ivies, myself included)”.

Relax you are trying way to hard… and let me guess the ivy you turned down was Cornell that like CMU had acceptance rates in the low 20% range when you applied.

According to Parchment among students accepted at CMU and Brown or UPenn 85% choose the Ivy. As the expression goes when you get into the end zone act like you have been there before.

Your happy with your choice and are at a great school no need to attack others.

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@Nocreativity1

  1. 2/3 of people at Brown get As is directly stated in their average GPA. 3.67 (I don’t even think this is a bad thing and I would totally go there)
  2. I agree that the Wharton one is bit more rumor based instead of facts. Thus, I retract the statement.
  3. I do know people who turn down ivies for CMU. I know people who got accepted to Colombia, Caltech but came to CMU instead. Notice that the statement does not state that more people will go to CMU instead of ivies. So what I said is 100% true. It is not my fault that for your misinterpretation.

Also, I find it ironic that you are trying to attack me just to prove a point. That is pretty pathetic.
(Also kind of bashing Cornell are you not? ;p)

Anyways, like I said before, my post was in no way an attempt to attack other schools. I was trying to give counter arguments to the original post, and thus, may have expressed some things about other schools. What I find ironic is that the entire post was hardcore bashing on CMU, yet everyone seem to be fine with it. However, I might even say the slightly negative thing about any of the ivies and everyone of you start to complain. But hey, I get it, there are a lot more unhappy students at CMU than ivies.

Please do not further hijack this thread with remarks about other colleges (or me) as that is not what this thread is about. Thank you :slight_smile:

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Just wanted to chime in the whole Ivy thing I’ve worked with 3 engineers from MIT none were blow your socks off world changers they were normal guys who made the same “band pay” as all the other engineers from state schools.

As one person said a day or two ago USC turns down more perfects stat kids than Harvard accepts and Univ of Alabama has more NMSF kids than any IVY.

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Wrong school for pre med. Excellent for CS and engineering. Choosing athe right school is like getting married…fact that you made the wrong choice doesn’t entitle you to bash the groom

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Just going to share my experience

  1. The people: First off, f*** you for judging a school based on your opinion of the student body's attractiveness and looks. Now, I will be the first to admit that CMU is NOT anything close to a party school and that most kids certainly seem to prioritize academics over social stuff. HOWEVER, pretty much every single person I've met has been very nice and pleasant. Yes, they are probably not into "play hard" culture that you will find in other schools, but they are all very nice people.
  2. Pittsburgh weather. Got me there, it sucks. Although many other great schools are in the snowy/cloudy/cold northeast.
  3. The workload. Yes, it is tough. Everyone will of course have different perspectives on this depending on their major/time management skills/planning etc. but in general it is true that CMU across majors is very hard. That being said, I don't think CS/Engineering/Science/Math/Econ etc. would be much easier at other universities.
  4. The vibe/toxicity. I actually COMPLETELY DISAGREE with your assessment. CMU is generally known as a college that is NOT toxic/cut-throat. This is because most kids know that they will land a solid job after college, and there is little incentive to be cut-throat. Everyone I know in my engineering classes is always ready to study together and collaborate etc. It is true that students probably over-obsess about academics than they need to, but certainly not a level where the students feel like they are working against each other instead of together. I'm actually very surprised you feel CMU is cutthroat, as all of my experiences have said otherwise personally. I think maybe you felt it was cutthroat as you were pre-med and so a super high GPA matters a lot to you while it doesn't for most other students. I think CMU is just a wrong school for pre-med, as getting a 4.0 GPA is not the point of a CMU education generally speaking, nor is it common, as you pretty much have to be one of those geniuses for that to happen.
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My son spent a summer at CMU and spent last summer with a number of CMU undergrads at a summer program elsewhere, and he said that many CMU students feel very negative like the original poster about the vibe and social life. There is an unevenness about the place, with the performing arts being very hard to get in, and the Arts and Sciences less hard to get in, and they quota out for the ECE major making it harder than say civil engineering, for admissions, so the student preparation is very uneven at CMU. Its a BIG letdown, apparently for the kids
who struggle to get into CMU , then feel maybe its just a school? It is a great academic program, but it attracts a lot of kids who want the very best education, and that is not always the best mix given how their criteria is all over the map. Students can get an actual reject at one program and an acceptance at another. But really , if they cannot do ECE then how could they be successful in CS or mechanical engineering? Its ludicrous , the quotas at CMU,
and I think it drives the negative culture there.

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@Coloradomama First, every university I have attended, including UPenn and UMich, have had differences in admission requirements between programs. For Penn there was separate admissions for Wharton, Engineering, and Nursing, and arts and sciences, for Michigan there are different requirements for Ross Business and also for Engineering versus LSA. As far as I can tell every competitive drama and MT program in the country also has its own admission requirements – as well it should be. Would we really want to say that the criteria to get into the school of drama should be the same as the criteria to get into a school of engineering?

One way to think of CMU is that it treats undergraduate training more like graduate school. This is similar to the European method of training. In the UK, for example, one applies to a particular program with a particular major. There also, it is possible to get into one major in a school, but be rejected by another. CMU is not nearly as rigid as the UK schools in this respect, but on the spectrum of college programs, it is closer to the European model than most American universities. Applicants for CMU should be aware of this, and should be prepared to dive intensively into their major by their sophomore year. I agree it is not a great place for students who want several years to explore a range of majors, although there is some room for that in Dietrich college.

I don’t really understand the connection @Coloradomama is drawing between having focused programming and “a culture of negativity”, and I don’t understand why it is being referred to as a quota system. I guess we can say every competitive program in the country has a “quota”, if we want to say that selecting some students and rejecting others is indicative of a “quota”. Another way to think of it is just selectivity.

I believe the original poster was not complaining about the selectivity of the programs, but rather the rigor. So CMU applicants should be forewarned – there will be a high level of rigor, even in arts and sciences (Dietrich). If you don’t want that, don’t go.

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So;

  • don't go to CMU for a prototypical, rah-rah, scantily clad cheerleader/keg environment
  • don't go to any school with grade deflation if trying to get into med school
  • if going to CMU, hang around the Performing Arts dept. when looking for a date, as all the other students are butt ugly, and have no social skills.
  • CMU, a rigorous school, is hard?
  • weather in Pittsburgh(and Detroit, Chicago, Minneapolis, Montreal, Toronto, Boston, Cleveland and points in between ) is bad?

    FWIW, I went to small city college with a renowned Theatre program. They worked my ass off…was constantly sleep deprived, the school was insanely competitive, and students were chopped after every semester. On top of that, most actors have the WORST parties ever, contrary to popular belief. I had to hang out around the general population to get any decent dates.

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@57special

  1. Yes, it is basically an engineering school. Enough said. (drama at CMU is pretty strong though)
  2. CMU doesn’t do grade deflation (for all the courses I taken so far at least). They actually do grade inflation because everyone bombs the exams due to its difficulty. But they don’t do inflation that is too advantageous for students where like most of the students get A
  3. ain’t nobody got no time to hang around.
  4. yes