<p>Intro classes do tend to be large at any school, but I believe that levels higher up at Rice and which you would get your references from are a lot smaller (20 and under) than many other schools and comparable to sizes at small liberal arts colleges like Amherst from what what I’ve been able to find out.</p>
<p>@ yhappiness: I disagree with your statement that upper-level classes at Rice are going to be “a LOT smaller.” I thought the same thing myself, and I learned that many of the upper-level courses at Rice were the same size as some of those at peer institutions, like Duke. I’m currently taking an upper-level course that has 12 students enrolled. Many of the bioc upper level courses at Rice, such as immunology, cell bio, biochemistry, and some others, have greater than 50 students in them. The biology department is also very popular at Duke, and many of the upper-level biology courses here have greater than 50 students too. Sure, some of the Duke upper-level classes might be slightly larger, but there is not as much difference in class sizes between Rice and Duke as I initially thought. Duke may be a special case among the larger top 20 schools; I don’t know about other top schools since I haven’t attended any other top universities besides Rice and Duke. </p>
<p>At any university, class sizes really depend on the departments, not as much as the schools themselves. Yes, I do agree you can get slightly more personal attention and slightly smaller classes at a place like Rice, but if you take the initiative to get the know the professors, you can even get strong letters of rec from a professor who teaches at a 50,000 person university in my opinion. What’s most important is academic fit and then personal fit. The OP should visit Rice, WashU, and Northwestern, and if they all offer a strong program in his academic area of interest, choose the one you would be more happier at. Between the three, I would say Rice is your best bet (of course, I’m biased since I attended for a year), but you can’t go wrong with either. To be honest, I think the residential college system at Rice and the abundance of research opportunities contributes more to the distinctive personal attention at Rice than the class sizes. The class sizes aren’t that unique to Rice. I suggest the OP researches the class sizes himself, instead of relying on our word. </p>
<p>@ the OP: you can check out Rice class sizes yourself. Go to courses.rice.edu and when you search for courses, it will display the number enrolled. Hope this helps! I hope you strongly consider Rice; it is truly a “hidden” gem out there.</p>
<p>Thank you both a lot. This really clarifies a lot about Rice.</p>
<p>Although I agree with a lot of what yhappiness said in post #19, I have to disagree about the “At Rice, if you decide to apply you will be supported no matter your stats” comment. The Health Professions Advising Office (basically the pre-med advising office) will strongly discourage from applying the med school applicants who they feel will have little to no chance of gaining acceptance or advise the less-than-stellar applicants to take another year, if necessary, to become more competitive. The 90% rate is partly the result of weeding, one way or another, including intro classes and the advising office. </p>
<p>Also, in regards to the comment, “On the other hand, having such a small close-knit community at Rice means less cut throat competition, less med school applicants in general, better intellectual atmosphere, smaller classes=easier to get personal attention from professors=better recommendations for med school,” this is both true and false in different ways. While Rice is generally known for having a close-knit community because of its small size, it’s really up the individual to make himself feel like a part of this community and make the effort to socialize. I know from experience that the “close-knit” feel is something you’ve got to work for. </p>
<p>Although I cannot say anything about the level of pre-med competition at other universities, Rice’s friendly community doesn’t make the competition any less cutthroat. I know very well from personal experience just how cutthroat the competition, especially for the intro science courses (e.g. biology, chemistry), can be. The margin for error and lost points is very slim, and there will be many highly competitive pre-med students studying 10 (and more - I’m not kidding) hours a day for the few A+ grades given to the top students. Pre-med students will be competitive at any university, and Rice is no different. (to the OP: if you would like a deeper glimpse into what the competition is like or an elaboration of what I mean, feel free to PM me)</p>
<p>You’ve also got to keep in mind that just because Rice has a smaller student population doesn’t mean you’re facing “[fewer] med school applicants in general.” Remember, you’re competing against every other pre-med student in the nation for med school, not just those at Rice. Having fewer surrounding pre-med applicants won’t make your chances to get valuable pre-med resources (leadership positions, internships, research opportunities, professor recommendation letters, access to academic advising) any better or worse. If you merit these things, you will get them.</p>
<p>I do not think Rice has a better intellectual atmosphere than other universities. Your intellectual atmosphere and experience will depend on the kind of friends and peers you choose to associate yourself with. It’s not really possible to quantify and compare how intellectual the student bodies of different universities are. </p>
<p>(as a note, I’m not trying to discredit or insult yhappiness in any way. I’m sorry if I sounded too critical of some comments; please don’t take it personally. I’m only sharing what I’ve learned from experience.)</p>
<p>I did my own fair share of research into the pre-med opportunities at Rice before being happy with what I saw and decided to attend. It’s inevitable that some will make it to med school and some will not. Whichever college you choose, your results and happiness will be what you make of it.</p>
<p>@ the.walnut: you hit the nail on the head. From my personal experience at Rice, I agree with everything that you stated. </p>
<p>Again, to the OP, you need to attend the school that 1) has a lot of resources in your area of interest (i.e. biology, environmental science, social sciences, music, etc.) 2) you feel you are going to be happy. Even though I was content at Rice by the end of the year, I decided to transfer out of Rice because I wasn’t satisfied with the resources in the environmental science program (and I didn’t want to major in environmental engineering, EEB, or bioc either). Duke, on the other hand, has an entire School of the Environment. Once you matriculate, take advantage of every single resource at the institution. To be honest, the size of the college is not as big as a deal that people make it to be. If you get to know the professors by going to office hours or asking them to lunch, if you take advantage of research opportunities, and if you find your niche socially, you can do well in any university. This initiative differentiates those who succeed in their later lives and those that do not. College really is what you make of it, as long as your specific institution has a lot of resources in your academic area of interest. You can get a crappy education at Yale, Duke, Rice, WashU, etc. or get an amazing education at your state school; it all depends on your initiative and your willingness to challenge yourself.</p>
<p>If you have any other questions about the science classes at Rice or the general atmosphere versus that at a peer school, feel free to PM me. Good luck!</p>
<p>I really like the content of this thread. Thank you for those who contributed to the discussions. My son is applying and he is thinking about pre-med.</p>
<p>One thing I’m curious about is the honor code. From what I understand, it is something uniquely practiced at Rice, not in other similar elite schools. I’m wondering how does that factor into the discussions, especially in the stress/compititiveness aspects. Some perspectives from the current students would be great. Thanks,</p>
<p>The honor code is an interesting thing. Basically, you sign the honor code on everything and you are trusted to follow the rules. The rules are set by the professor and are usually that you cannot refer to materials from previous years classes, you may not collaborate on certain assignments etc.</p>
<p>Tests are the same way. You are given 4 hours to take the test. You write the start time and end time and take the test wherever you want. Tests that are held in class are non-proctored. There is usually a TA who sits in or around the classroom to help with questions. The professor swings by once every half hour or so to help clarify things.</p>
<p>If someone cheats or is suspected of cheating, they are reported to the honor council. It is a panel of 9 members who weigh the violation and decide on a punishment. You can get a letter grade reduction for small stuff (where you did not really try to cheat), fail a class for sharing test information or get banned for 2 semesters if you are actively cheating. The punishments range based on the offense</p>
<p>The pros
- You can take the tests anywhere at your convenience.
- You do not have proctors who freak out about nothing
- I was allowed to listen to music and change songs on my iPod for most tests without any problems. I usually talked to the prof beforehand and most said it was ok. If they said no, I respected their wishes
- If you are sick or away on an interview, professors trust you with homework. They post the solutions as expected. If you have an extension for sickness or being out of town, you sign the honor code stating that you did NOT look at the solutions.
- Leaving the exam hall for a break is not a big deal. You can go get water or just stretch outside.</p>
<p>The cons
- There is no enforcement on the rules. Especially with pre-med classes where everyone wants the A+, you know people are cheating.
- The honor council case handling is weird. They tell you that you have been reported, but do not tell you why. As a result, it reduces the accused to a nervous wreck for two weeks until they tell you what it is.</p>
<p>A friend was hauled up for “cheating”. After two weeks they told him that someone reported him for taking notes while at someone elses computer in a CAAM course, in essence copying. The case was dismissed shortly thereafter, as a TA was at that computer explaining something and told everyone that they could take notes. If they just told people ahead of time what was going on, it would be better. While the innocent should not be afraid, just the thought of being mistakenly kicked out is pretty scary.</p>
<p>The honor code is a good system in concept. There are some issues though. I definitely enjoyed having it. To summarize one point about the honor code, in the words of a professor to a bunch of Grad students</p>
<p>“Isn’t it very suspicious that you all fail the homework and projects but ace the tests?”</p>
<p>Antarius,</p>
<p>Thanks for the reply. My son applies to Rice out of my urging. He thinks Rice will be too stressful for him. I thought the honor code policy might be something he will like since he is never all that good in timed test(such as SAT).</p>
<p>You are very welcome.</p>
<p>To clarify, most tests (especially in the lower levels) are timed. You just enforce the time limit yourself and sign the test with your start and stop times. You get to take the test within a set of a few days (handed out on monday, due friday). This means you allot which set of hours you want to use to take the test. Some like to take it the night before and some take it the day of to get it over with.</p>
<p>Being able to take the test in your own room on your own desk at the time of choosing is very nice. Also, as I said above, some tests are timed and in class. The good thing is that no one is preening over your shoulder making you nervous.
The minor advantage you may get by cheating is vastly dwarfed by the potential ramifications of getting caught. It keeps people honest.</p>
<p>The test taking atmosphere is much more relaxed than other colleges. If your son is nervous in tests, he will probably enjoy this a lot.</p>
<p>To be honest, I don’t think the honor code made Rice any more stressful. If anything, it makes the experience less stressful. If your son doesn’t cheat, he doesn’t have anything to worry about regarding the honor code. Almost all schools have an honor code, but Rice takes it more seriously and misconduct is handled by an Honor Council with students, instead of administrators. Professors are likely to give more take home tests, which is nice because you can take them anywhere and such tests offer more flexibility. Personally, I think take home tests are less stressful than in-class tests. To be honest, I feel Rice’s atmosphere overall is slightly less stressful than Duke’s atmosphere and from that of other top-schools; people tend to be more chill down in Texas than in the East Coast. Students tend to be collaborative rather than cutthroat; I feel Rice is hands down one of the best places to do premed because you have the world’s largest medical center next door (which includes 14 or so hospitals and 2 medical schools). Plus, Rice has tons of research opportunities for undergrads, especially in the biosciences (Rice recently opened a new 8 story biosciences/biomedical research building in the Texas Medical Center). Rice is hard, plain and simple. However, so is any other top school. Seriously, your son has nothing to worry about… if he takes advantage of the resources of his college and works hard, he will do well. Rice isn’t cutthroat. Good luck to your son and I hope he gets into Rice (and Duke if he is applying there too)!</p>
<p>My son just attended Vision 2011 for admitted students and applicants and it re-confirmed what a fantastic choice he made to apply Early Decision to Rice, he loves everything about the place and the people so far!!!</p>