<p>Hi, this is my first time posting on this forum, but i have been a rabid, nuerotic lurker for quite some time. NE wayz I am a female URM (specifically African American) who is very intensely interested in chemical or biomedical engineering. My love for it has grown as I have researched it extensively on the net. In fact, Im attending UT's Women in Engineering program and participating in an engineering internship in my city. My question is, however, why are there so few URMS who do not major in engineering??? My theory is that many URM's, esp. blacks are afraid that the affirmative action question mark will always be over there heads. People may look at a minority student and think oh he/she only go into HYPMS because she/he is black. Especially if the student is majoring in something as challenging as engineering or physics etc. No matter what that dark cloud will always be over their heads. In fact, that is one of my major concerns about attending the elite schools. Anyways, any comments or theories????</p>
<p>Most engineering programs don't have perceptible forms of AA. </p>
<p>Simply put, they know letting people in who don't have the intelligence or drive will not cut it. They'll just fail out, thus making them worse off than before.</p>
<p>Afro.Sax.gurl,</p>
<pre><code> I wish I had a good answer to your question. Perhaps you are more qualified than I - were you ever encouraged to or discouraged from engineering? One reason I believe there are less URM in engineering is that it has been historically a white, male job. So there are not a lot of role models in minority families and communities.
Most schools are working hard to change things. If you work hard you will have opportunities. I say go for it!
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One reason I believe there are less URM in engineering is that it has been historically a white, male job.
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<p>Yeah, but that doesn't satisfactorily explain why there are so many Asians in engineering. I swear, there are some engineering classes at the top schools in which the average student in those classes arguably has a better grasp of the Chinese language (or to some extent Hindi, Tamil, Korean, or Vietnamese) than they do of English, and in which whites are only a small minority. As a case in point, some people joke that MIT actually stands for "Made in Taiwan". </p>
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So there are not a lot of role models in minority families and communities.
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<p>While the notion of role models may play some role to explain the above, I doubt that's the whole story. For example, one might argue that the high predeliction for Chinese-Americans to study engineering might be due to something peculiar among the particular Chinese who emigrated to the US, or to US educational culture, or both. That argument holds far less water when you note that the same strong predeliction for engineering can be found amongst Chinese-Canadians, Chinese-British, Chinese-Australians, and the Chinese diaspora throughout Southeast Asia. The latter is group is particularly indicative, as the Chinese population in SE Asia (i.e. Malaysia, Singapore, Vietnam, etc.) nearly all immigrated as illiterate and destitute peasants. Yet their descendents displayed a strong preference for educating themselves in certain fields, engineering being one of them. For example, Sowell showed that in the 1960's, the number of Chinese-Malaysians who received engineering degrees outnumbered the number of ethnic Malays who received such degrees by more than 100:1, despite the fact that within the overall population the Malays greatly outnumbered the Chinese.</p>
<p>Sakky,</p>
<pre><code> This is a complicated issue and I didn't think that my short explaination was complete. It was just a couple of factors.
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<p>afro.sax.gurl: Women have been slow to embrace engineering in general. As a woman I never considered it. I don't like high level math and I totally hated physics! But hey, that's just me. Black women do not make up a large percentage of the population in the U.S.These two factors combined would lead you to believe there will be fewer black women engineers at this time.</p>
<p>My comment: As long as there is affirmative action there will always be those who will wonder. It won't matter how hard you work, how many hours you put in, what a great product you put out because some people will always wonder if you have what it takes. Not only in school but in the job market as well.</p>
<p>The answer lies within you. Go to any school you choose, do your best and have fun. Go get a job and live your life. You will be a role model just because you are doing what you love. One of my best friends is a white woman engineer. She is very successful. She finds it rewarding to go out to schools and teach kids about engineering. She also is involved with The Society of Women in Engineering and finds it rewarding to show other women that there is a strong group of ever growing women engineers. She does this because it makes her happy. Maybe this is something you will want to do, maybe not.</p>
<p>So go to HYP or wherever you want, do well, be happy and live your life. Others will see you and maybe think that that looks pretty good to them. :)</p>
<p>Don't drown yourselves in misconceptions and nonsensical beliefs. Pursuing a engineering degree is very time consuming and mentally straining. The fact of the matter is that "Asian males" tend to be very bright and extremely dedicated to their studies. It's not only Afro-American women who don't take much part in engineering and applied science it's women in general. Don't bash me thats just a rational point of view. Plus, engineers are kinda geeky and I don't believe thats the conception most women want of themselves "nerdy."</p>
<p>Have you ever seen office space? I think the only woman working in Peter's office was that fat receptionist, and that's not even an engineer.</p>
<p>I think a lot of it is due to a lack of social support. A lot of URM's come from bad school districts and there isn't a structure there to cultivate potential engineers. That's a major problem in the United States -- not enough attention is put forth to identify students with the potential to do science and engineering. I went to a competitive (top 50 Newsweek) high school and of my graduating class of 500+, only 6 people that I know of went into engineering (including myself). Can you imagine how much worse the situation is at poorer schools? </p>
<p>With specifically female engineers, I think it's a similar thing. Unfortunately, engineering is not a profession that people associate a woman with. So growing up, it was never really a major that they are told about. That's why organization like the Society for Woman Engineers are great because they try to show that engineering is a very possible subject for woman to do. </p>
<p>Ultimately, it comes down to confidence. If URM's have the confidence to go into engineering programs, I think they'd be fine. The problem is that confidence must be built throughout their entire lives. It's hard to have that when you don't have the support of your school and community behind you.</p>
<p>"engineers are kinda geeky"</p>
<p>In the eastern hemisphere they're seen as kinda "cool"...</p>
<p>what is an "URMS"?</p>
<p>Under-represented minorities.</p>
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If URM's have the confidence to go into engineering programs, I think they'd be fine.
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Honestly, I disagree. Plenty of people have confidence coming in to engineering programs. However, if you are a below average student in an engineering program you are gonna have a tough time of it - real tough. That's why AA is not prevalent in engineering programs, it simply wouldn't work.</p>
<p>I'm assuming that they are capable students to begin with. You have to have confidence, no matter how smart you are imo.</p>
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I'm assuming that they are capable students to begin with.
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AA exists because, on average, this is untrue.</p>
<p>Hi all, thank you for your comments. I agree with one poster who wrote that most engineering majors/jobs have been geared towards white males, so that URMs and women did not have the opportunity to accelerate in this field. Also, engineering and most sciences in general ARE deemed too "dorky' or "geeky" by most kids and URMs. NE Wayz I really appreciate everyones comments</p>
<p>P.S. i still plan to major in engineering even with the small numbers of minorities in this major.</p>
<p>Sax: Thank you for your inspirational words of encouragement. Oh, by the way do you play the saxophone or is that just your screen name? Ive been playing the tenor saxophone for 8 years now so I was just wondering.</p>
<p>Dr. Reynolds,</p>
<p>I have never been discouraged from majoring in engineering directly. But when i tell people what I want to major in an almost inperceptable (sp??) look crosses over their faces. One like why is She majoring in that or they'll ask me do I understand how hard engineering can be etc. It's very subtle and barely noticiable. Anways, Ive always been interested in the sciences, specifically chemistry because that's what my dad majored in. But he was the one who encouraged me to consider engineering. He explained it as the application of physics, chemisrty etc. Essentially he's the one who got me interested in the field.</p>
<p>Aha I am a URM (African-American) in Eng. (More specifically CS) And could comment on some of this.</p>
<p>There is no complete answer to this however Ill try ;). First off, I dont believe you can compare all URMs to each other, like Asian's are not the same as African Americans (Hell half the time their not even a URM in engineering). I think a lot of the rolemodel issues people associate arent really a URM thing, but more of a poor person thing, which though many URMs experience not all actually are poor believe it or not ;). I think with URMs we have to come mroe down to statistics. </p>
<p>I think engineering and app sciences itself is a minority and when you add in a minority and in some cases an extreme minority, your going have an extremely low amount of URMs in eng/app sci. Then take in the fact that statistically A Minority tends to test lower in a room full of white people.....well then you can begin to understand this complex issue huh? ;). (Its a short a brute answer, but an answer nonetheless)</p>
<p>From my perspective,Asians are more likely to major in Engineering than whites.It's really about your own interest. If you are interested in it,go for it.And your performance has nothing to do with race.Maybe other blacks just don't like engineering?</p>