Why so few URMS in engineering???

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that's not true at all.Students who come to the U.S. usually have parents/relatives here and therefore have an easier time getting a visa OR they are rich.

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<p>If their parents were rich then most likely they are of higher aptitude relative to their home country population. And how did their relatives come here in the first place? My parents came here because we had money. And we had money because my grandfather was a smart businessman. And lots of my family members are successful. My gf's family consist of doctors, intellectuals, and former high ranking army officer. They immigrated here only a few years ago and now she is going to dental school. Her mom tried many years applying for a visa. </p>

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Isn't it funny that African kids do much better than African-American kids? It can't be intelligence that keeps af-am's from engineering majors because they have the same genes as Africans. I think it is all because of culture and how they are raised. Africans realize that opportunities are very limited so they work hard and their parents help them get a good education and that is completely opposite of what African-American kids have been taught.

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<p>Actually African Americans and africans are quite different. On average African Americans share ~10% of their genes with caucasians. Now that proportion tends to get higher for more successful black americans. </p>

<p>Yes I agree culture and environment is a part of it, I never disagreed with that. All Im saying is that it is a combination of factors and not solely attributed to environmental factors. Secondly, people aren't realizing genetics also influence the environment that people created. For example, men are more likely to take risks and explore new ideas than females. This is biological and no one can deny that. Is it a coincidence why many men have had dominance in most every field? They were the ones to create it. </p>

<p>In today's liberal views social factors are used to explain all our differences. Biological factors are now taboo for sake of political correctness. And yet what were finding out now is that genetics contribute to the majority of our intellectual development. Aside from malnutrition and lack of opportunity genetics can be attributed up to 75-80% of IQ differences. And it plays an even higher role once were adults. </p>

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VTjas81- most African countries follow the british system. The curriculum is very rigorous and more advanced than middle and secondary schools in the U.S. Granted a lot of african kids don't get to go to school because they're poor, but those who do take a rigorous courseload.There's a lot of talent in Africa-- contrary to the impression you get when you watch any show that has to do with africa. But of course the U.S is the one of the best places to come to for a college degree and a job.

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<p>And that is why there is a brain drain going on in Africa now. People want opportunity and the ones with the desirable traits are the ones who get them. Everyone wants to immigrate to the US. It's not surprising they outperform many black americans. Every population has exceptionally smart people as well as dimwits. And Im saying the ones studying here are some of the very brightest.</p>

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Definitely not undergrad. They might be Asian-American, and a majority of them are fluent in English rather than their mother tongue.</p>

<p>isn't English Asian Americans' mother tongue?</p>

<p>If its anything American than English naturally would be the native tongue right? :P.</p>

<p>"I'm assuming that they are capable students to begin with"
why do we need AA if this is true?</p>

<p>"My theory is that many URM's, esp. blacks are afraid that the affirmative action question mark will always be over there heads. People may look at a minority student and think oh he/she only go into HYPMS because she/he is black. Especially if the student is majoring in something as challenging as engineering or physics etc. "</p>

<p>this is only admissions to colleges.
a lot of colleges let ppl freely pick majors, and sadly, people who "had some extra help" in getting accepted are often not as able to handle the courseload (engineering is common percepted as one of the hardest majors if not THE hardest major) thus picking easier majors to handle.</p>

<p>most asian americans can barely speak the language of their origin :-P</p>

<p>alsol, africans and african americans have very different genes.
If you have noticed why African Americans outperform Africans so much in sports, that's one indication. True, africans may be poorer, but on a national team w/ the country feeding you?
there's this darwin's theory for African Americans that when the slave was shipped to the US, many times 400 ppl were put in 1 room so that disease was widespread. In fact, if anyone learned US history, a lot of them died during the transportation, leaving only the strongest and the most fit to survive. That's why the African Americans in the US are generally bigger than Africans. That shows their genes are different from the norm of Africans.
Furthermore, most African americans are technically mixed (Thomas Jefferson's descendants once came to our school to give a speech about how Thomas Jefferson had a lot of children w/ his slaves, something US history leave out intentionally)</p>

<p>Another side note, international students who come to the US have a few types:
1. they can't survive in their homecountry for high school or middle school or university, and their parents are rich so they come here (a lot of Taiwanese are like that)
2. Their parents are rich and already planned out that they come to the US for their education, regardless of how good they are
3. They compete for limited opportunities/scholarships to come to the US.</p>

<p>I'm not sure which category has more people, but from my exp it's generally these 3 types.</p>

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If you have noticed why African Americans outperform Africans so much in sports, that's one indication.

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<p>How did you arrive at that conclusion? How do you compare african athletes to african american athletes?</p>

<p>international competitions?
eg. basketball, baseball?</p>

<p>lol- ppl in africa generally don't care about/play basketball or BASEBALL. That's like saying 'chinese ppl do better in ping pong than europeans.'</p>

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That's why the African Americans in the US are generally bigger than Africans. That shows their genes are different from the norm of Africans.

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<p>Uh, Asian-Americans also tend to be bigger than Asians. Except for the coolie trade, I'm not aware of much a history of Asian slavery in the West. </p>

<p>Heck, Americans (of all races) tend to be bigger than their counterparts in almost any other part of the world. Not that this is a universally good thing. Obesity is more of a problem in the US than in virtually any other country.</p>

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Definitely not undergrad. They might be Asian-American, and a majority of them are fluent in English rather than their mother tongue.

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<p>Oh, actually * definitely* undergrad. If you don't believe it, why not come over and see for yourself?</p>

<p>Sure, many (but by no means all) of them are Asian-American. But we have to parse what that means. Many of them are fluent in 2 languages, and prefer to speak in an Asian language when given a choice. Some of them are still not completely fluent in English (i.e. they only attended an American high school and possibly an American jr. high school, but completed their primary schooling in Asia).</p>

<p>A lot of the reason why americans and europeans are larger (taller, not just fatter) than indigenous people of the more undeveloped nations in africa and asia is because most of our food is bioengineered and pumped full of plant steroids, much of which gets passed on to us when we consume it.</p>

<p>i don't see why URM (especially black / native american / spanish) don't or are not encouraged to major in engineering. If anything, those are the first in line for jobs and grad school. Companies/schools want diversity.</p>

<p>screw this politcally correct crap. URMS go to ****ty school districts that dont expect them to graduate high school. Community College is a big acheivement for them and most of them wont even get to that point. Don't blame society for being selective. Blame the school districts and the parents for not doing all they can to guarantee those student recieve the proper education necessary.</p>

<p>exactly, screw the PC!</p>

<p>lol, admissions ppl have tried to be politically corret and ****.
but the fact is the fact, no matter how unfair or bad it is.
urms are just not as academically talented or "smart" (for the lack of a better word" than asians!
that's why there are so few.</p>

<p>it is completely ignorant to say society doens't like them to be engineers, there are A LOT of programs geared towards urms for engineering. it's up to them whether or not to take hold of the chance. </p>

<p>sstop trying to be pc and covering the truth.
if the fact is like that, then so be it.
no use going in circles.</p>

<p>Not only that, Being "white" is a disadvantage. with all the equal opportunity education and employment rules that have been set up, it is easy to argue that a URM with the same stats as me would easily get the position at a top school over me, due to the fact that i am caucasian. </p>

<p>Genetically, Asians have larger brains than caucasians, afro-americans, spanish, etc. etc. which is one of the reasons why they tend to outperform all other on standardized tests. Asians have always outperformed the competition as far as mathematics and sciences goes. Take that into consideration.</p>

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Genetically, Asians have larger brains than caucasians, afro-americans, spanish, etc. etc. which is one of the reasons why they tend to outperform all other on standardized tests. Asians have always outperformed the competition as far as mathematics and sciences goes. Take that into consideration.

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<p>i have never read this in any online or text source. what i have read is that asians ("asian" referring to east, southeast, and south asia as far as i know) are the most successful minority because of culture, NOT genetics.</p>

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i have never read this in any online or text source. what i have read is that asians ("asian" referring to east, southeast, and south asia as far as i know) are the most successful minority because of culture, NOT genetics.

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<p>. Brain Size Differences. Studies using magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) find a correlation of brain size with IQ of about 0.40. Larger brains contain more neurons and synapses and process information faster. Race differences in brain size are present at birth. By adulthood, East Asians average 1 cubic inch more cranial capacity than Whites who average 5 cubic inches more than Blacks.</p>

<p>Now attributing to culture only and not genetics is just plain naive. That's like saying asians can be just as tall as black people if they played as much sports as them.<br>
<a href="http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2005/04/blackwhiteeast.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2005/04/blackwhiteeast.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence_(Average_intelligence_gaps_among_races)#Brain_size_.26_structure%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence_(Average_intelligence_gaps_among_races)#Brain_size_.26_structure&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.apa.org/divisions/div1/news/summer2002/rushtonpdf.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.apa.org/divisions/div1/news/summer2002/rushtonpdf.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>So you think taller people, on average, are more intelligent than shorter people?</p>

<p>i read on some magazine somewhere harvard did a research.
asians outperform other races so much is 20% genetics and 80% culture. (roughly)</p>