Why SUNY is not a top tier state university system

Parents Forum
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<p>LukNessMonster: I have no idea. Yes, it's a shame! I actually taught in the Asian Studies Dept., too. I would contact the Chair there if you really want an answer.</p>

<p>I will say that the predominance of the Asian poppulation is Indian, Korean and Chinese, but I am sure there are Japanese students and faculty as well. </p>

<p>On another topic, it seems to me that the Florida system is also doing awesome things. UFL at Gainesville is really expanding, and FSU is also improving its reputation.</p>

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<p>My D insisted that everyone from her HS at SUNY SB is unhappy with weekend social life (everyone goes home); also read very discouraging things on SUNY SB CC forum. But it does have nice weather. One nice thing about the admissions office is that Chris the admissions counselor has his own blog and posts on CC; will answer questions from applicants. </p>

<p>SUNY Purchase also has nice weather and easy to get to NYC, but I'm not sure it would be good for someone not majoring in the arts.</p>

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<p>Virginia has the historic advantage of the second or so oldest school in the country (William and Mary) in the public system, a university conceived and designed by Thomas Jefferson in the public system, and a state university focused on science and engineering (Virginia Tech).
The state has been blessed, but there are so many ways that these advantages could have been squandered over the years, I have to think the people in charge have been both lucky and wise.</p>

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<p>New Jersey has been able to change the image of its state university system; Rutgers, The College of New Jersey (fka Trenton State) and Rowan (fka Glassboro State) are all way more desirable than they were a decade ago, especially TCNJ.</p>

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<p>Muffy, the NJ system is so expensive for instate, IMO. It runs about 20,000/year. TCNJ looks like a beautiful LAC, but has a commuter reputation, and it seems more difficult to get accepted when not within commuting distance. Rowan has little name recogniton outside of the state. Rutgers-NB has a 4 year graduation rate of 47%, Rowan's is 42%, but TCNJ has a 4 year grad rate of 64%.</p>

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<p>I think the Rutgers basketball team will help Rutgers. When I was applying to UConn years ago pre Coach Calhoun/Auriemma, people outside CT would say, "Yukon? Is that in Alaska?" and I would have to spell it out. It's a different college now, more school spirit -REALLY nice basketball stadium; maybe the same thing will happen to Rutgers.</p>

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<p>That could be, but Rutgers has always had national name recognition. Class size, and graduation rate are important to me. 20% of their classes have over 50 students. Some I have heard have over 300 students. Paying 20k per year and only having a 4 year grad rate of 47% is not that appealing to me.</p>

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<p>I'd like to provide some insight as a current SUNY student.</p>

<p>The system has one advantage: cost. Simply put, when one compares the current SUNY tuition to that of a private school, it's difficult not to immediately choose the cheaper option. This narrow-minded view of education's worth eems to have manifested itself in a LOT of NY state parents (mine included). I suppose it's hard to blame them when you look at the tuition bills of your friends that go to Vassar or Colgate. Add to that the astronomical taxes we pay in NY and you can begin to sympathize with them.</p>

<p>But cost is where the SUNY advantage(s) end. Academically, the system lags far behind almost any other in the country. Look at the state schools near NY...Penn State, Ohio State, UConn, Rutgers, Virginia; these are all bright lights of public education. They pull in brilliant professors, they have 1-2 billion dollar endowments and they attract some of the most ambitious kids in their state.</p>

<p>So why isn't SUNY comparable to the aforementioned schools?</p>

<p>1.) Flagship. The failure to establish/designate a SUNY flagship has doomed NY public education to mediocrity. There are great teachers in the system, don't doubt that, but when you have THIRTY freakin' campuses it's all but assured that the talent will be spread too thin. And this is the case with SUNY.</p>

<p>2.) Location. This leads to a lot of the issues raised by students at a SUNY. Aside from Albany and Buffalo, the schools are stuck in depressed towns in the middle of nowhere. Rockefeller & Co. were audacious in believing that they could revitalize the flagging economy of upstate NY, but reality has squashed their hypothesis. Unlike New Brunswick, Columbus, Minneapolis or Los Angeles, the SUNY colleges are stranded without access to a major city. This is a serious, serious problem. Cities provide one of the most fundamental elements of an education: culture. Music, theater, first-rate museums, restaurants, galleries, etc. etc. etc. I think the absence of cultural enrichment that affects most SUNY students explains a lot of the depression and anxiety that can be found on any campus in the system.</p>

<p>3.) Funding. This, ladies and gentlemen, is really the core of the problem. Compare the money being put into the University of California system and the money being put into SUNY. There is a vast difference that almost makes you laugh in shame. The NYS Legislature needs to end its decades of being content with an average state university and start giving funds to the sector that truly needs them: education.</p>

<p>In closing, I'd like to say that I will be leaving the SUNY system. I'll be a junior this coming fall and have decided to either make this coming spring semester or the fall junior semester my last here in the NY public education quagmire. I plan on transferring to a state school that can provide a truly fantastic education to its students at a still-reasonable price (Ohio State, Michigan, Maryland, Virginia all come to mind).</p>

<p>I honestly, truly hope that SUNY will someday realize its full potential and become a nationally acknowledged state system. But don't bet on it.</p>

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<p>^^Hm. Have you been to LI and Stony Brook? Have to laugh at the designation of a depressed town. However, certainly not a college town, so your points are well taken.</p>

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<p>Kiplinger's</a> Best Values in Public Colleges Database - Kiplinger.com</p>

<p>NY has 11 schools in Kiplingers brand new best public school values list</p>

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<p>Numbers don't always measure satisfaction.</p>

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<p>All of the SUNY schools are great in my opinion. they should be in the top tier of public universities across the country. its just that NY has sooo many great schools.</p>

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<p>Oh sure. By most academic measures of faculty quality and school resources they are not even in the ballpark with the top publics. And their students' numbers are not so hot either. Add in social and sports death zones and you have a horrible four years compared to the top state schools.</p>

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<p>Check out Men's and Women's Ice Hockey Stats for SUNY Plattsburgh. They surely are not in the Death Zone of sports.</p>

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<p>Stony Brook Seawolves, DI football, did well. There were fireworks at their last game, which they won.</p>

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<p>My kid is a freshman at SUNY Buffalo, who had a pretty good choice of schools. His room-mate got a perfect score on the SATs. They are happy, interested in their classes, like their professors, and have already been offered research opportunities through the medical school and advanced science programs. </p>

<p>SUNY Buffalo has a great speakers' program that has brought the Dali Lama, Al Gore, Michael Moore and Colin Powell to the school just within the past three years. Students have great scholastic and social opportunities (Smashmouth opened their school year), although the school doesn't do a particularly good job of publicizing activities/opportunities. The guarantee programs assure students a great chance at their intended major. Dorms are comparable to other schools, with free laundry and excellant internet bandwidth. Parking permits are free, and there's adequate parking (although obviously not everyone can park next to their classroom building). The libraries are extensive.</p>

<p>The administration has been friendly and helpful, and advisors are readily available. My kid has had no problem registering for classes. The school offers a wide variety of majors, including some majors that have limited availability in the United States (such as the nuclear medical technology major). My kid has access to classes and programs across other SUNY schools, including access to the Student Exchange program and the usual study abroad opportunities. </p>

<p>Admittedly, the campus is utilitarian and the North Campus lacks lovely ivy-covered buildings, old oak trees and beautiful quadrangles. The IM Pei designed dorm buildings are ugly, but you have to give SUNY credit for trying to go with a renowned architect. </p>

<p>SUNY Buffalo may lack the intangible prestige factor, but there are schools of law, dentistry, medicine, architecture, pharmacy, engineering, business, fine arts, nursing, etc....and best of all, the price can't be beat. My SUNY Buffalo out-of-state kid is paying half what my Penn State kid is paying as an in-state student, thanks to a generous grant. I'm very, very grateful to NY. (Ohio State offered my kid enough money to match Penn State's cost but UCONN, Penn State and Pitt offered nada.) The university has commenced a major long-term development program, and it will be interesting to see how it all works out.</p>

<p>Obviously, SUNY isn't going to be for everyone, but my kid is having a very satisfactory experience there, and won't be burdened with debt when it's time for grad school apps. I'm ok with his decision to go to SUNY, since I went to a state university and had no problem getting into a good professional school. </p>

<p>Not all SUNYs are created equal, just as other state schools aren't created equal (anyone want to compare Western Connecticut with UCONN, Edinboro U with Penn State or Michigan State with Michigan U?), but the SUNY system does offer some schools with very good value for NY residents.</p>

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<p>Thanks Neon for sharing- It is really nice to get some kind words about SUNY from OOS parents. As you can tell, SUNY doesn't get much love on these boards.</p>

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<p>Neon-</p>

<p>That's great to hear. I didn't mean to give the impression that SUNY is absolutely worthless. It's not. Some of the wealthiest and happiest people I know graduated from SUNY schools. It's just not right for me. </p>

<p>Best of luck to your son/daughter!</p>

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<p>Two points about the California public schools:
1) There are 9 UC's (or 10, if you include UCSF, which is mostly graduate medical related). Then there are 21 CSU's plus the two Cal Poly's (which in my opinion are really UC equivalents). So that's 32 in total. From my reading, the SUNY's are a combination of the two types of California schools.
2) The top 12 1/2% means for the whole state, not just per school. That way the students at competitive schools are not disadvantaged. To preserve equity, the state instituted the ELC program, which is the top 4% for EACH school.</p>

<p>Also, don't forget the massive budget problems we have here every few years, Arnold or no...</p>

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<p>
[QUOTE]
SUNY Purchase also has nice weather and easy to get to NYC, but I'm not sure it would be good for someone not majoring in the arts.

[/QUOTE]

I'm a Journalism major at Purchase, and so far my academic experience has been wonderful. Plus I'm making fabulous connections.</p>