<p>so us gives lots of aid but do so many students want to get to same old U.S ?
what about romantic europe exotic New Zealand? why US?</p>
<p>Well, that's kinda tricky question for me, as I have citizenship of EU and all European universities are therefore free of charge for me. However, the problem is that they have very limited number of programs (of limited quality) taught in English. As English is the only language I know sufficiently, so from the whole Europe, UK is the only choice for me. Why have I chosen the US? Simply put, I like the US. That's it. This is not to offend anyone, but I am also convinced that American system of higher education is the most advanced in all over the world (i.e. why Harvard and not Oxford, Cambridge or Sorbone is the best uni in the world?). Secondly, America is the homeland of computing, so for computer engineering there is no better place than the US. Thirdly, I got admitted with excelent finaid, so why not to go there? Thirdly, when applying to the UK, you are sure that you're gonna get admitted, the only question is whether you go to Cambridge or to some unknown village college, so American admissions was a great challenge for me. Finally, once you get admitted in the US, you are never required to fullfill any silly requirements called "conditionals", which trust me really sucks.
Now why I haven't chosen New Zeland, Australia, Singapore, etc. Simply these countries are a bit too far and their culture is too different form European culture. That's it...</p>
<p>$$..................</p>
<p>Rytis,</p>
<p>Just out of curiosity what do you mean you are guarantead place at a UK college? Do you mean that any one can get into a crap college? In Ireland it works like that. We take the Leaving Certificate (like the o levels) and only those with the best grades in general get into the top unis.</p>
<p>he means that only a few places in england are very competetive - if you have top grades then almost anywhere in the UK will take you - the only question is whether Oxbridge will, and this is always a gamble because admission tends to come down to how you do in your interview...</p>
<p>For me, there's the money issue, and also the issue of liberal arts vs. straight out major from the beginning like UK and Australia. I was a little stuck between Canada and the US, but overall it was what I felt concerning diversity and a school a size I feel okay with. Most universities in Canada were too big for me (public) and I felt like the US schools were a little more friendly and aggressive in trying to get their students/admitted people feel part of their school BEFORE they enrolled or started classes.</p>
<p>Just so Rytis doesn't mislead other people reading this thread, EU citizenship does NOT make universities in the EU free of charge. (I wish) </p>
<p>Also, EU citizenship does NOT guarantee you a place in a university. </p>
<p>The UK is not the only place in Europe where you can study in English. Most major universities in Europe have international programs which are taught 100% in English, which attract students from all over the world.</p>
<p>The people with the highest grades get into the most prestigious universities, just like in the US. In America you pretty much guaranteed a place somewhere no matter what your GPA, but if you wanna go to Harvard, MIT, or Yale or Stanford, you will need extremely good grades. The same is true of the UK, and other European countries. You are bound to get in somewhere no matter what, but for Oxford, Cambridge, Warwick, or LSE, you need an extremely strong application to get in.</p>
<p>Well,</p>
<p>I see there are some people who disagree with my post. However, everything I have written is based solely on experience of kids from my high school. I have graduated from a school, which offers IB. My homecountry was admitted to the EU in 2004. Prior to the admission to the EU, only the brightest of the brightest kids used to go study abroad: ~1 kid to the US and ~1 kid to International University Bremen. The rest of ~50 class would stay at home. After 2004, nearly 95% of the class would go to study to the UK, which means that even the dumbest folks with ~28 from IB finals would find a spot in the UK. So that's what I meant claiming that you can be confident about finding a spot in the UK.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Also, EU citizenship does NOT guarantee you a place in a university.
[/quote]
It surely doesn't, thank God. I maybe have some wording problems in expressing my thoughts, but what I had in mind is that for any EU citizen it is far easier to find a spot in the UK than in the US.</p>
<p>
[quote]
EU citizenship does NOT make universities in the EU free of charge. (I wish)
[/quote]
It makes them free of charge in the UK. Don't know about other countries, but it definitely makes them cheaper, doesn't it?</p>
<p>
[quote]
In America you pretty much guaranteed a place somewhere no matter what your GPA,
[/quote]
If finances is not an issue for you, then yes, but for students from my homecountry, which still has not caught up with the Western Europe, it is definitely not the case.</p>
<p>
[quote]
he means that only a few places in england are very competetive - if you have top grades then almost anywhere in the UK will take you - the only question is whether Oxbridge will, and this is always a gamble because admission tends to come down to how you do in your interview...
[/quote]
Basically, yes, but don't forget that it heavily depends upon your major.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Just out of curiosity what do you mean you are guarantead place at a UK college? Do you mean that any one can get into a crap college?
[/quote]
Yep, however if your IB finals score is lower than 20, then I really doubt that you can find a spot, but who knows. In general, it is just the matter of extent.</p>
<p>Rytis, you are misinformed about the cost of studying in the UK.</p>
<p>Yes university in the UK is cheaper for EU students, but it is certainly not <em>free</em> for any nationality.</p>
<p>Finances aside, why do you think it is easier for an EU citizen to get into a UK university than an American one? I'm an EU citizen applying grad schools in both countries. Do you think I would have a better shot at an acceptance from Oxford or Cornell for economics? Warwick or UMich Ann Arbor? Based on my reading I thought the competitiveness was pretty comparable in both countries, for comparable schools. But if you see it differently, I'd like to know your rationale.</p>
<p>nauru, on the contrary, i know that some universities offer free tuition for EU citizens.. warsaw school of economics is one of them. correct me if im wrong, but im sure there are plenty more like warsaw</p>
<p>True - there are some universities in Europe that offer free tuition to EU citizens. But this is not the norm. Particularly in Western Europe, where most Americans would likely be considering to study, free tuition is pretty uncommon... although it can be quite cheap in France and Germany. (for EU citizens)</p>
<p>My post was meant to address the assertions that had been made about higher education in the UK, where there is no free university for any nationality. (unless someone can provide a university link proving otherwise)</p>
<p>Nauru,
Well, we are talking about two different things. I am talking about undergraduate, whereas you are talking about graduate education. I really don't know much about graduate education, since this fall I will be freshman at Lafayette College, so until it's time to go to graduate school there still is some four years!</p>
<p>Now about tuition for undergraduates:
<a href="http://manchester.ac.uk/undergraduate/money/homeeufeesandcosts/%5B/url%5D">http://manchester.ac.uk/undergraduate/money/homeeufeesandcosts/</a>
You see, 3,000 pounds tuition, which is supposed to be paid after graduation, is really not that much compared to $24,000 in the US, which is supposed to be paid before each semester begins. Moreover, if you don't make 15,000 pounds a year, which will definitely be the case in my home country, you will be exempted from paying back the loan.
Now compare it with what non-EU citizens have to pay:
<a href="http://manchester.ac.uk/undergraduate/money/internationalfees/%5B/url%5D">http://manchester.ac.uk/undergraduate/money/internationalfees/</a>
And it seems that it's a general policy that UK universities are addopting: check out the site, a link of which I found at Warwick site:
<a href="http://www.studentsupportdirect.co.uk/portal/page?_pageid=1647,467682&_dad=portal&_schema=PROTOCOL%5B/url%5D">http://www.studentsupportdirect.co.uk/portal/page?_pageid=1647,467682&_dad=portal&_schema=PROTOCOL</a>
Though de jure it is not free of charge, de facto it is really, really close to it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Finances aside, why do you think it is easier for an EU citizen to get into a UK university than an American one? I'm an EU citizen applying grad schools in both countries. Do you think I would have a better shot at an acceptance from Oxford or Cornell for economics? Warwick or UMich Ann Arbor? Based on my reading I thought the competitiveness was pretty comparable in both countries, for comparable schools. But if you see it differently, I'd like to know your rationale.
[/quote]
Again, I don't have sufficient knowledge about grad schools in Europe and the US. The only thing I know for sure is that if you have outstanding academic record, it's not impossible to get in universities in either country. My friend's brother, IUB undergraduate, applied this year to Oxford, Harvard, UColumbia, UChichago, and to some other Ivy schools and being admitted to Oxford and Harvard got rejected only from UChichago!</p>
<p>"I see there are some people who disagree with my post. However, everything I have written is based solely on experience of kids from my high school. I have graduated from a school, which offers IB. My homecountry was admitted to the EU in 2004. Prior to the admission to the EU, only the brightest of the brightest kids used to go study abroad: ~1 kid to the US and ~1 kid to International University Bremen. The rest of ~50 class would stay at home. After 2004, nearly 95% of the class would go to study to the UK, which means that even the dumbest folks with ~28 from IB finals would find a spot in the UK. So that's what I meant claiming that you can be confident about finding a spot in the UK."</p>
<p>Such a big change after the admittance of your country into the EU. You know why?</p>
<p>I speculate that it is because of the fees.</p>
<p>Before 2004, citizens from your country are considered as internationals, so the fees the students from your country pay is exactly the figure what those fellows from Asia and US pay. 4-6 times or more than the local fees. As you can see, an udergraduate education in the UK is unaccessible to most of your countrymen because it's just too expensive.</p>
<p>After 2004, education in the UK suddenly becomes so cheap. You don't have to pay the fees until after your studies, unlike internationals who must pay before the start of each term. You'll be given loans and bursary and fanciful repayment schemes etc. So in the end, everybody can go to the UK to study.</p>
<p>^^^^^
Exactly!</p>
<p>Just a small reminder that to avail of the cheap/free fees in the EU you must be an EU citizen and have lived in the region for 3 of the past 5 years for any reason that is not soly due to education. I hope that makes sense. It is the way the unis/goverment usualy word the clause.</p>
<p>The one thing I never liked about the British system is the conditional offers they make for undergraduates. It must be really nerve raking at exams. In Ireland you only get Uni offers after your state exam results are released.</p>
<p>I guess Ireland would be the same regarding uni acceptance. Only those who get the best grades would get into the main unis: Trinity, UCD, UCC, UCG and etc.... While those who have worse grades can get into other public/private institutions that require lower grades.</p>
<p>Just an aditional note regarding the difference between application to Graduate school in the UK and the USA. The main difference is that most UK courses do not require the GRE which most USA ones do although I have seen one or two UK ones that asked for it.</p>
<p>In my high school the choices are US, UK, Canada or going to university in my country. </p>
<p>So why US?
I just think Canada is a bit too boring for me (no offense to any Canadians) and there aren't many top schools with the program I want. A friend of mine is going to Waterloo this fall, and that's just because she was too lazy to do SATs... she could have gotten into an Ivy in the US if she made a little effort.</p>
<p>UK- I think the universities in the UK, although prestigious, don't offer the flexibility that US universities offer. Also, the conversion to pounds is much more steep. At any rate, I probably woulld not have been able to get my visa since they require that you have the money for all the years of your studies in the bank, as in you should already have that saved, and it doesn't count if you can make that money during the course of your studies :(</p>
<p>I'm not staying home! My country doesn't offer the program I'm looking for.</p>
<p>Simply put, I've lived in the US since 2001, and I would like to stay. (I'm an EU citizen as well.)</p>
<p>because US colleges are very top (IVIES), they offer scholarships (!!!!), i have been to the US.
i would gladly choose a college in the UK over one in the US if only there were scholarships....</p>
<p>I would like to work in US. that's why US.</p>
<p>well personally i'd choose a "romantic" british uni over the US but i guess thats a personal opinion...its romantic bcoz of the football u c!</p>