<p>Please help me compare USC Engineering and UCSD engineering. This is for DD. Within California, these are her top choices thus far. When I posted a thread in UCSD forum, I got good data leading me to believe that the two engineering departments are comparable academically, tho' UCSD may have slightly edge. </p>
<p>However, I want to get perspectives from USC forum as well. As for me and my family, we specially liked USC tour last summer. Engineering portion was quite personalized with someone high up in admissions department (specific to Engineering) spend time with a very small set of students. On the other hand, I took only a general tour at USC, so I cannot honestly compare how an engineering specifc tour of UCSD will far (i don't know if they offer one either). So I am looking for reasons to justifiy USC over UCSD. </p>
<p>So a few questions. </p>
<p>1) How do you comapre the two places academically?</p>
<p>2) Assuming academically they are fairly close, what are the other reasons one should pay more money (a lot more money) for USC education. For example, is it similar to high school in private versus public school education, whereby you get lot more personal attention in a private school. Does USC have better freshman retention in engg. Or, better 4 year graduation. Or, any other factors you can think of. </p>
<p>3) Are there specific areas of engineering where USC outperforms UCSD. I know it is probably not bio-engineering. UCSD is top there. But my D is not looking at that. Perhaps Computer Science, Computer Engg, Civil/Environment engg is what she has in mind. </p>
<p>4) Choice of minor. Does USC offer/make it easy to have other humanities minors along with engg.</p>
<p>In short, I am slightly biased towards USC. But now I want to justify spending more money for USC tuition. So could you help list reasons why USC is better than UCSD. Or, not.</p>
<p>Well public vs private means that you'll have much smaller classes at USC and more hands-on activities. Academically, it probably depends on the major itself. Some majors are better than the others in each school. I don't really have much more to help with lol, sorry.</p>
<p>Look at the USC Viterbi Engineering catalogue. There are various minors connected with the Engineering department if your child is interested in that. One good thing USC Engineering has is a fifth years masters degree, if you are accepted after undergrad. I don't know if UCSD has the fifth years masters degree or if it is another 2 years for the masters. There are various companies, both government and private in San Diego where it might be easier to get internships/jobs, but I can't say for a fact, particularly with the economic down turn. Although there are many companies in the San Diego area for the added work experience, I thought UCSD was rather isolated and your child would have to have a car to get anywhere. I also suggest that you compare the bottom line price between the two schools.</p>
<p>USC engineering graduate school is now ranked as high as Caltech.</p>
<p>
[quote]
2008 Top 10 Engineering Schools - Graduate
1 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
2 Stanford University
3 University of California, Berkeley<br>
4 Georgia Institute of Technology
5 University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
6 Carnegie Mellon University
7 California Institute of Technology 7 University of Southern California
9 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
10 Cornell University
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Here is ranking for Computer engineering and Civil engineering
[quote]
Undergraduate engineering specialties:
Computer Engineering
(At schools whose highest degree is a doctorate)
Methodology
1 Massachusetts Inst. of Technology
2 Carnegie Mellon University (PA)
2 Stanford University (CA)
4 University of California–Berkeley *
5 U. of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign *
6 Georgia Institute of Technology *
7 University of Michigan–Ann Arbor *
8 Cornell University (NY)
8 University of Texas–Austin *
10 California Institute of Technology
11 Purdue Univ.–West Lafayette (IN)*
12 University of Washington *
13 Princeton University (NJ)
14 Univ. of Wisconsin–Madison *
15 Univ. of California–Los Angeles *
16 Northwestern University (IL)
16 Rice University (TX) 18 Univ. of California–San Diego ***
**18 Univ. of Southern California
20 Univ. of Maryland–College Park *
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
Undergraduate engineering specialties:
Civil
(At schools whose highest degree is a doctorate)
Methodology
1 U. of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign *
1 University of California–Berkeley *
3 Massachusetts Inst. of Technology
4 Stanford University (CA)
5 Georgia Institute of Technology *
6 University of Texas–Austin *
7 University of Michigan–Ann Arbor *
8 Purdue Univ.–West Lafayette (IN)*
9 Cornell University (NY)
10 Texas A&M Univ.–College Station *
11 Virginia Tech *
12 California Institute of Technology
12 Carnegie Mellon University (PA)
14 Univ. of Wisconsin–Madison *
15 Northwestern University (IL)
15 Princeton University (NJ)
17 Johns Hopkins University (MD)
17 University of Washington *
19 Pennsylvania State U.–University Park *
19 Rensselaer Polytechnic Inst. (NY)
*19 Univ. of California–San Diego **
19 University of Florida *
<p>The 4+1 masters at USC is one thing to consider. Also, USC as a whole has a better name than UCSD. USC is also WAY more fun/vibrant of a school IMO. I was choosing between the two schools and despite USC being 50k+ more expensive over 4 years I still decided to go with USC and I have not regretted it. Lastly, USC is significantly more selective (see data below):</p>
<p>At UC's I sense that you are almost like a number. Sometimes getting a class you need to graduate can be a challenge, and students are at the mercy of budget cuts.</p>
<p>
[quote]
USC engineering graduate school is now ranked as high as Caltech.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Because they reported a wrong number to US News--% Faculty as NAE Members; they told USN it's something like 18% when it's supposed to be more like 7%, according to my estimation. Only one school has slightly higher than 18% and that's Berkeley. So that's a HUGE difference. They also LIED on their website about faculty as NAE members when some of them were never faculty before (e.g. alum, board member, CEO..etc, <em>not</em> really faculty); it's quite incredible if you ask me. What's amazing is they have gotten away with it for few years already and it's still counting. USC is the only school in the top-10 that has assessment scores lower than 4.0 (only 3.5 from peers).</p>
<p>And one thing that hasn't been mentioned so far is the Trojan Family, with its fantastic alumni connections and networking. The school spirit is just so uplifting and you become a Trojan for life. FIGHT ON!</p>
[quote]
More than a third of its 165 faculty members are fellows in their respective professional societies. With 33 faculty members elected to the National Academy of Engineering
<p>The ones in black are not faculty. Even among the ones in red, some are still not. Even among the ones that are, some of them are no longer "active" but emeritus (retired); they shouldn't be counted for US News either. Now you see there are <em>a lot</em> that shouldn't be counted for US News... What's more is USC does have 165 active full-time faculty; so many of the people on this list are actually *excluded" from that 165. This even jacks up the % further!!</p>
<p>Another thing I discovered through looking at the bio is that USC got a few to join when they were pretty old and (presumably) retired. One example is Simon Ramo USC</a> Stevens - Legendary Engineer Joins USC Viterbi He joined last year. How old was he? HE WAS 94!!!!</p>
<p>It's very unusual to have a new hire that's so old. This tells me USC is willing to do anything to get the NAE numbers up; it's one of the main elements they market on their website and use to fool the US News. It's pretty incredible and over the top...</p>
<p>I am not saying USC doesn't have a great engineering school. But this got nothing to do with it. I hope some of you can write to the dean and faculty and say, "hey, that's misleading and wrong".</p>
<p>The two schools are very different. Best to go where the student feels the best fit of academic interests and socially comfortable. The campus tours of the Engineering school and school as a whole should provide the answers.</p>
<p>you are wrong. i don't hate usc; i was rooting for them against michigan state. i am just disgusted with the cheating and the fakes. but i guess you are probably thinking what they did was brilliant or just telling me "there are crooks everywhere, get over it!".</p>
<p>Sam Lee - Your wording is inflamatory and very presumtive: "willing to do anything" "LIED" "cheating" "fakes". It justs smacks of an agenda. Perhaps you went to Cal Tech (or other) and take some offense? Many rating agencies very highly rate USC's Engineering School not just US News. A coworker of mine is in her 90s and surely contributes profoundly. Everyone knows statistics can be manipulated - by anyone. USCs reputation is earned, not faked...or else the entire engineering community is apparently as gullible as US News. </p>
<p>Why is that anytime someone offers a differing viewpoint on USC forum, they get fried, labeled haters, bigoted. Sam Lee seems to have valid points backed by "facts". Why not argue, provide counter points to those. That will help Decisiontime and others go in the right decision. This is a CC discussion site not USC website. So let us have objective discussion.</p>
<p>Thanks for being fair and balanced, My2CentsRwrthMor!</p>
<p>doame and CollegeFrenzy,
Both of you should go look at the points I made and check out the links I provided. Please focus on the message instead of the messenger and stop discrediting by just attacking people. "gut feeling" or "come across as..." are just poor excuses. </p>
<p>doame,
Because you were focusing on the messenger and not the message, you started hearing things that I didn't say and then you put words into my mouth. I didn't say USC's reputation was faked (how can you fake a reputation anyway?). I said their NAE count was faked. My discussion was limited to only the NAE count and its effect on US News ranking. As of now, its NAE % is about THREE TIMES higher than it should be. It is not supposed to be ranked the same as CalTech. Where it would be is uncertain. US News doesn't provide enough details for us to calculate. That said, UCSD is ranked the 11th; UCSD is slightly lower in research expenditure per faculty; other than that, it's higher than USC in all other categories including both peer and recruiter assessment scores <em>once USC's NAE number is corrected</em>. So I am pretty certain UCSD would be ranked higher. That said, nobody applying to grad schools looks at the "overall" ranking. Department rankings are the ones that people care about.</p>
<p>Speaking of engineering community, I am one of them.</p>
<p>Everything you say may be true Sam Lee. But all I was pointing out is that people do frame their responses from how the messenger presents the message. It is human nature.</p>
<p>Your points would be much more well received and open to discussion if they were presented in a less combative way. </p>
<p>That is all I am saying and I think that is what doame's point was as well.</p>
anyone wanna tell me about the 4 + 1 undergrad and grad degree thing at USC???
[/quote]
</p>
<p>In most departments that offer a masters degree (some exceptions like MBA) you can gain the master's degree along with your undergrad.</p>
<p>If you have a good enough GPA (I think the min cutoff is >3.2) you can apply to the masters program your junior year. It is a very EASY short application, no fee, no GRE scores required. If you are accepted you are let into the masters program your senior year and you can take grad courses if you want. </p>
<p>Also you are allowed to overlap 1/3 of the master's degree with your undergrad. This means that you can apply your advanced undergrad classes (400 level) to both the undergrad and the masters, allowing you to finish the masters faster.</p>
<p>If your undergrad only took 3 years (due to overload or AP credits) then your senior year can be grad courses only and you finish both in 4 years. If your undergrad takes the normal 4 years, then the 5th year is grad (hence the name 4+1)</p>
<p>Sam Lee, I really respect your comments and appreciate your response. You are obviously very passionate about your beliefs and that is a very respectable trait.</p>