Why USNA?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
1

<p>Hi all,</p>

<p>I'm new to this forum. I am seeking advices from people who have daughters currently attending or already graduating from USNA.</p>

<p>My daughter has been accepted to USNA. She has also been accepted to 2 other reputable universities with scholarships covering most of the tuition. So money is not a significant issue here.</p>

<p>I would love to hear from experienced parents as well as current female midshipmen and female USNA alumni. Pros and cons, deciding factors?</p>

<p>Many thanks in advance,
Sam</p>

2

<p>SamT congratulations to your daughter and her achievements!! Great job one and all!! </p>

<p>The one and only question really is: What does your daughter want to do?</p>

<p>Does she want the intensity, challenge, discipline, stress and ultimate personal sense of achievement for sticking out 4 years of the life as a Service Academy college-educated young woman? Unless she wants this more than anything else, she really won't succeed. It's a tough call for some 250-300+ entering women every year at USNA. </p>

<p>If she wants to serve her country, have a college experience in regular dorms with a variety of classes, diversity ( in all its forms including sexual, racial, cultural, etc.)of student life, and still study military science, have naval training and end up with a commission in the USNR - then she should go that route.</p>

<p>It has to be her 100% total personal decision. USNA is not for everyone. And to go and then change your mind breaks the heart of another worthy young person who would have, in a heartbeat...taken that slot.</p>

<p>Whatever she chooses, let us know, proud dad.</p>

<p>God's wisdom to you all in this time of decision.</p>

3

<p>I agree with peskemom, I have been accepted to NAPS, making me class of 2011 but I knew USNA was for me, when I couldn't explain why I wanted to go. There was just this feeling that words lcould not explain of how much the Academy means to me. It encompasses honor, tradition, hardwork, leadership, teamwork, pride and many other things. For me, everytime I'm there or even think about the Academy theres that feeling in the pit of your stomach, that slight nervousness and the thought that those four years at the Academy are not just college, but they are four years of learning how to lead other people while getting a first class education. There's so much that the Academy has to offer both men and women who pass through its fine doors. In my opinion, there is only one way for your daughter to make her decision about the Academy, that is too look deep insider herself and ask herself if the Academy is the place she cannot be without. Is she willing to put forth the everything it takes to succeed at the Academy? If so, then her decision should be USNA. I know that's what made me choose USNA in the first place. Good luck to your daughter in her decision.</p>

4

<p>Why USNA? Why not USNA? As being a navybrat, serving in the U.S. Navy has lots of benefits. Congrats on your daughter's appointment!!! I'm very envious!</p>

5

<p>that's very exciting! it always makes me happy to hear of more girls coming here!
the women at the academy are unbelievable. they are strong, smart, beautiful, talented and dedicated. your daughter will fit right in, no doubt.
before i began plebe summer, a youngster girl shared some information with me. she told me that guys at the academy don't view the girls here the same they view civilian girls. i didn't know what she meant, but now that i'm here i totally do. every girl who comes here will experience it. its a struggle, to be recognized as everything that you are, as a girl and not just a 'female mid'. but i think it makes us girls even stronger, and the friendships you make here are incredible.
i'm not trying to say that all guy mids discriminate against women, by any means. but in my experience as a female midshipman (and girl), there is a subtle undercurrent.</p>

6

<p>this bears repeating:</p>

<p>Navy women are strong, smart, beautiful, talented, and dedicated. I might add, remember not to define yourself through the eyes of others. "Guys at the academy don't view the girls here the same they view civilian girls." That's because you are their PEERS. Navy women have IMPROVED the institution!</p>

7

<p>Proverbs 31!</p>

8

<p>We're batting 1.000 so far. Keep going! :D</p>

<p>Just one note to add, though, and please understand that my perspective is from 15+ years ago. There will always be an undercurrent of "they're different" or "why are they here?". In an institution as sopped with testosterone as USNA, it's natural.</p>

<p>However, it is equally true that once a female mid earnes the respect of her peers (and it really doesn't take anything extraordinary, mind you), then they have it FOR LIFE, and whoa be it unto him that messes with a female mid when her male peers are around!</p>

<p>They'll just stand back and cheer as she whips his butt! :D</p>

<p><--- USNA '91, male, for SamT's information. ;)</p>

<p>ETA: I'm glad current female mids are so positive on the experience. It was perhaps a little different in my day. Sometimes with reason, sometimes not. </p>

<p>A good deal of the women I've come to respect most across the span of my life have come from USNA. (One I admire the least came from USMA. Go figure. I don't attribute it to the USMA, but man, how ironic!)</p>

<p>If your daughter goes to USNA, she's in for one hell of a ride, but it's worth it! :)</p>

<p>Oh, and if I could add one last thing! </p>

<p>Why USNA? </p>

<p>Well, DUH! Because we're the BEST, of course!</p>

<p>Sheesh! :rolleyes:</p>

<p>;)</p>

9

<p>Good one NAPS06 - Thanks for posting that.</p>

<p>Wheelah, a question: Even tho' you might feel that there is less respect from the male mids than y'all deserve, is it possible that those guys really respect y'all alot more than say, civilian girls that don't attend the academy? Obviously you mids have it all over the civilian girls - don't you feel that the male mids recognize that? (I sincerely hope so!). </p>

<p>I think, no matter where we are, there is always going to be a bit of a "male subculture" and a "female subculture". That is to be expected.</p>

<p>That being said, I just want to applaud all of you female mids (and all service academy women!) - every single one of you must be a truly amazing woman!! Speaking on behalf of THE WORLD (ha!), we admire, respect & commend you for your chosen path - We know how awesome you are and we're here cheering you on! </p>

<p>I look forward to meeting some of you in the years to come!</p>

10

<p>
[quote]
Wheelah, a question: Even tho' you might feel that there is less respect from the male mids than y'all deserve, is it possible that those guys really respect y'all alot more than say, civilian girls that don't attend the academy? Obviously you mids have it all over the civilian girls - don't you feel that the male mids recognize that? (I sincerely hope so!).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Obviously, Wheelah is more qualified to give you a direct answer than I, as she is a female who is actually there right now, but let me give you some insight from the MALE standpoint.</p>

<p>The girls who were most popular at USNA while I was there were not popular because they were smart, or attractive, or athletic, or because they slept around (which they didn't, for the overwhelming part. Those that did were not looked kindly upon. Neither were the males.). </p>

<p>One of the most popular women in my company was an average academic, far from attractive, yet an acomplished athlete. She was universally loved by everyone in the company because she never, EVER, tried to use the fact that she was a women to get any special favors or treatment. She was one of the guys, an equal among peers, ALWAYS.</p>

<p>The best example I remember was the late Saturday night she walked into the wardroom and about a dozen males were watching...... well, let's just say you won't see it on prime time. She walked in, saw what was on, and said simply, "Hey guys, when this is over, give me a shout. I've got (whatever movie it was) with me." She then walked out.</p>

<p>No muss, no fuss, no pontification, nothing.</p>

<p>The guys were so impressed that they stopped the movie, walked down to her room, and asked her to come down and join them with her movie, which she did. End of story.</p>

<p>Now, I'll admit that it's not the finest example, but it gives you an idea. </p>

<p>Be a MIDSHIPMAN, and the others (male and female) will bond to you. Go in there with a chip on your shoulder, and you won't enjoy it. Even other women will push you away because you'll make THEM look bad.</p>

<p>Best of luck, and congratulations on your achievements!</p>

11

<p>As a former Navy diver (specops) I've only served with a few but impressive some group of female officers. Two of those were USNA grads who I totally respected for their perseverance in graduating from the Severn Trade School. Also, besides the mutual respect for being USNA grades we had an instant bond that I didn't have with the other female officers. I got along with all of them; however, the bond was always stronger with the Academy grads. I'm sure it would have been the same with my male counterparts but in my entire career, I didn't serve with many male grads(perhaps 1-2). Saw some once in awhile, but that was about it. </p>

<p>I was there when females first arrived and basically left them alone. We had a few in my company, one was in my squad when I was a squad leader junior year and I treated her (hopefully) just like any other plebe. This was my second experience of females cracking all male institutions as my high school went from 6,000 guys to 6,000 plus 2 females my sophomore year to about 5,500 guys and 500 females my senior year. I guess by the time USNA came around, I had already see the positive affects that it had in my HS and expected the same to come about at USNA.</p>

12

<p>This is great thread. I've gotten to know many female mids and can echo what Wheelah wrote: "guys at the academy don't view the girls here the same they view civilian girls". This is especially true Plebe Year, when the women are unable to enjoy the traditional expressions of femininity in clothing and hair (modest makeup is allowed). It's an adjustment for the women to make as they see their male classmates admire civilian women and fail to recognize that the female mid right next to them would have been seen as just as attractive a few short months ago. </p>

<p>Meanwhile, the female mids are establishing themselves as strong and competent and are generally highly respected as team members and friends. As the years go by, the hair grows back and more civilian clothes are allowed, and often the male mids find themselves stunned that the women right next to them are often beauties!</p>

<p>As hard as this is during Plebe Year, I strongly believe it is a tremendous advantage for the female mids to be seen as team mates first, and women second. It's a culture shock for sure -- our society tends to make first impressions based on looks and young women are acclimated to accept this unconsciously. However, I can guarantee you, after 30 years climbing the executive ladder in private business, it is extraordinarily hard to work it the other way around. Sorry to have to say this, but we have not yet, as a culture, found ourselves able to look past gender when making first impressions. A stunning woman has to work harder to prove professional competency than a plain women. (And before you label me a misogynist please know that I AM a woman :) )</p>

<p>In the military or in civilian life, in order to lead men and women, one must be seen first and foremost for your character and competence. I have been highly impressed with the way that USNA shapes the relationships between genders and ultimately assures that this can happen.</p>

13

<p>in response to the question about respect-
i don't feel its an issue of the guy mids not respecting the girls, because the men do. and in terms of civilian versus mid girls, im sure the boys respect us more in a military, professional nature than they do civilians. but thats not really what i was referring to.
what i mean was that, when it comes to being "girls", many guy mids don't think female mids are "real" girls. its the uniforms, its the fact that they see us, as zaphod said, "as one of the guys". the effect on the male mids is immediate from the time they get here: by the end of plebe summer, before PPW, a guy in my squad said "wow, i can't wait until PPW to get out of here and see some real girls." i'll leave aside the fact that he said this with three girls present (he "didn't realize" we were girls, literally.) he didn't realize that we are the EPITOME of real girls: strong, dedicated, doing things my girlfriends back home couldn't ever understand, dealing with stereotypes they'll never know. zaphod said that the guy mids didn't like the female mids because they were "attractive", but females at the academy are often looked down upon as being unattractive: take the "academy goggles" for instance, where ugly civilian girls look attractive because you've been at the academy and are used to seeing ugly girls. what are some of the more colorful definitions of "WUBA"? i guarantee a female didn't think of those. why is it that dating a female mid is called "going over to the dark side"? i had my squad leader, when i was interviewing him for a leadership project, tell me that, in his opinion, girls at the academy have problems when they try and "cast off their femininity" and "be one of the guys". what, i asked, should i do then? he said that guy mids appreciated girls the most when they embraced their female side: i.e. caring for their male counterparts when they're sick, acting as the dating adviser and consoler, "acting out maternal instincts", etc. and its not just guy mids who play into this attitude: i had a female 2/c in my squad tell me that "women at the academy are either *****es or hoes. tell me, which end of the spectrum are you on?"
i am relating these things, yes, from a female perspective. but, if i read right, that's what was asked for. and no, im not a rabid feminist. and perhaps thats whats sad, that these are not the observations of a burn-the-bra feminazi who sees attacks on women around every corner. i'm just a normal girl, at the academy, speaking about everyday life. do all guy mids play into this? of course not! my boyfriend is a mid, some of my best friends are guys. but if you ask a girl from the academy whether there is this undercurrent, they will say yes. </p>

<p>want to hear a joke?</p>

<p>women's rights.</p>

<p>i've heard that one about ten times since i came here. just a little bit to think over.</p>

14

<p>wheelah,
you're doing us all a great service by writing from your heart with accuracy and truth. Thanks for taking the time from your busy world to do this....</p>

<p>Having read "First Class", the book about the first USNA woman, having talked to many USNA women, having read these and other current female mid posts...your comments are helpful.</p>

<p>All this past year, I have collected for my daughter the advice and quoteables from people to her about her desire to attend USNA. Most come from military/USNA grads.</p>

<p>I think the MOST significant one came from a Class of'91 female mid, went Marine...flew helos....served 12 years...Her biggest piece of advice?
'DON'T GIVE UP YOUR FEMININITY!'. This is from someone who indeed had to be 'one of the guys' while slogging around in Marine muck and mire countless times...flying with the men....living with them as the only female in her unit.
She learned the hard way that if she only tried to be just like them, men resented her, not respected her. If she maintained her femininity - appropriately that is - we're not talking about putting on lipstick during a battle drill - but was a female in her view of life - a Marine, but a female - she earned the respect of her fellow Marines.</p>

15

<p>There was a fascinating article in the Harvard Business Review recently about the importance of a leader bringing his/her whole self to the job. I think both Wheelah's and peskemom's comments address this. "Your femininity" is, of course, reflected in physical appearance -- but that is only on the surface. The characteristics we often associate with femininity, such as nurturance, are perhaps weighted toward women, but are universal characteristics that can be expressed by either gender.</p>

<p>All humans -- in the military or in civilian life -- recognize instinctively when someone is holding back on their core personality, and that will negatively affect someone's ability to trust you. Wheelah's interviewer may have been stereotyping, but may also have been saying: be who you are: if nurturing is in your core personality, don't hold back and pretend to be a b**** or it will show. If your sense of humor tends to the silly side -- be silly (when humor is appropriate). If you are a women and do not tend to the nurturing side, then don't fake it (after all, we all love, trust and respect Chloe on "24" don't we?)</p>

<p>I know very few women in their 20's in the business world who are fully cognizant of how to bring their whole selves to the job without slipping into stereotypes (b**** vs hoe, for example). It takes time, experience and unfortunately mistakes to know who you are fully and know when it is appropriate or inappropriate to express individuality. The culture and power influence in the business world makes this even more complex. </p>

<p>The USNA regs level the playing field and take physical appearance out of the equation to a certain extent. The rules about dating protect one from power influence to a certain extent. The result is an environment that isn't perfect, but is a heck of a lot better than you'll find in business, I guarentee.</p>

<p>So yes, don't give up your femininity, but what that really means is don't give up your core personality -- male or female. I know men at USNA who paint, who play the violin, who knit. (yes, knit!) It works both ways -- if you can get past expressing yourself through physical appearance alone, you learn to be your authentic self without falling into the stereotyping trap.</p>

16

<p>this has been my favorite thread ever. thank you to all who have contributed.</p>

17

<p>What terrific insight from all posters. I think the takeaway for SamT is that in addition to all the civilian/military culture differences his daughter may be weighing, USNA will present a unique challenge to her as a woman. The benefit that the challenge offers is the opportunity to develop that aura of competence and self assurance that oiixxg referred to. It's certainly an intangible asset but, nevertheless, one that is highly respected in the military and very well rewarded in the business world. Walk into a wardroom or a boardroom with it and nobody will care what your gender is.</p>

<p>Now Wheelah, get back to the books!</p>

18

<p>haha thanks mom, will do. it's interesting that this thread was started when it did, because i had to take a DOD gender relations survey today. i had a lot of good feedback to give.</p>

19

<p>being a male plebe right now i think the reason why men aren't attracted to female plebes is there lack of femininity. we just spent the summer running, sweating, doing pushups and situps, and busting our butts together. we've seen each other at embarassing times and when we certainly dont look our best. when females come to the academy their hair is cut and they are stripped of their femininity and forced to adjust to a predominantly male society. male plebes have only seen female plebes with their short hair, and when they havent been trying to impress. when they see civilian girls, it is with their long hair, and nice clothes and feminine habits. it is especially attractive because femininity is not found much here. as the years go on and females grow their hair back and learn to be in the military and still be feminine, male mids become more attracted to them and realize that female mids have alot more qualities than just looks that most civilian girls don't have.</p>

20

<p>Forgive my ignorance. Brand new. Second attempt at listing. Can you explain how to create a new post? I can't seem to find anything in help directory. </p>

<p>I would like to create one surrounding my daughter's "wait" for a waiver at the USNA.</p>

<p>Any guidance appreciated.</p>