Just out of curiosity, for those of you with experience with both of these schools, what parts of Vanderbilt would make you choose it over Northwestern? I’m not really worried about prestige (that’s just splitting hairs at this point). If it makes a difference, I am planning on majoring in something STEM-related, and I am not planning on joining a frat. Thanks!
@Ariz0na : No one is really going to have experience with both schools, so don’t ask this question here, at least not like that. Go look up the programs you are interested in. As in, go on departmental webpages and see if anything stands out. Look and see if there are any special academic programs for you to join as a freshman at each. If it appears they do your interests equally (NO this is NOT the same as prestige. Some places design their curricula differently and offer different opportunities via the departments or schools themselves. Many top privates have excellent reputations but that doesn’t mean their undergraduate programs have the same strengths in the same areas), then choose on something something else like social, intellectual climate or even the weather I suppose. In this case, I’d have to know what STEM discipline to have any opinion or look up anything. If you are interested in certain schools and are more “academic leaning” something “STEM-related” doesn’t provide enough information to help. Like are we talking math, physics, statistics or life sciences (and then are you talking like chemistry or disciplines like biology/neuro)? A you more of a hardcore pre-health or would you possibly pursue science as a career (in the latter case, the school offering the best departmental undergraduate fellowships, has easy access to graduate courses, and has upper-level lab training/bigger course variety may be better. If the former, you just want the courses required or helpful for your health school of interest to be taught decently well and run such that you can do well).
If pre-health, weeder culture seems stronger at NU (as in they make the introductory and intermediate courses harder than many other elite schools), so you’d want to be careful. VU may be a better place if you’re worried about grading/stress of doing well though it is still challenging enough.
If you are into STEM as a career, then maybe NU can offer advantages depending on the field. And in such a case, you can honestly afford more of an academic challenge (instead of unusually challenging content and tests, you deal with really competitive students so you’d need to do very well on exams consistently to do well. NU is more of a curve beating game).
Also, don’t write off the frats yet. If anything, I would just be neutral to them. If you are not neutral (as in have more of a negative viewpoint), you may want to evaluate what type of social environment you want and may want to add several other schools as top ones to consider.
I disagree with the above poster about the academic challenge - Vanderbilt is notoriously challenging, as is NU, so you shouldn’t choose one because of it’s perceived rigor, prestige or superiority. What you should evaluate is a) personal fit and b) the strength of the program. What do you want to study? That’s what matters, not the relative prestige of two of the country’s best schools.
To me, you really could not go wrong choosing between the two colleges from a strictly academic perspective. Northwestern and Vanderbilt are each excellent universities… both are solidly top-25 nationally in almost all key categories. Both are also excellent for those seeking to study a STEM-centered program. My daughter is a current applicant this cycle to both schools as well.
From my personal perspective, the three primary negatives related to Northwestern would be 1) its severely cold winters (and long) 2) the fact that it utilizes the Quarter system (vs Semester system) and 3) the general safety and other issues related to increased crime in Chicago itself. This third factor would only really apply if you plan to try and expand your horizons beyond Evanston while there. And Northwestern is likely slightly better for the S and T parts of STEM (especially the natural sciences), while Northwestern seems slightly better at the E and M parts (especially Math). But that is only based on some undergraduate rankings that I have seen.
Despite all these factors, my own daughter may lean more toward Northwestern, if the choice came down to those two universities… simply due to the strength of Northwestern’s undergraduate major that she is seeking.
Vanderbilt is on the semester system, has less severe winters (albeit warmer/more humid summers) and a very interesting / vibrant growing city around it. As a parent, I would feel much more comfortable sending my child off to Nashville vs the greater Chicago area.
Good luck…
@Senior2016M Thanks. Right now, I’m thinking about engineering, but since that’s not set in stone I’d like the flexibility to explore courses in math and economics. My initial impression is that NU is better in this regard. However, I do like the campus of Vandy better (and the weather). The concern I have with Vandy though is that I am the antithesis of preppy and am not super social, so i don’t know if I’d fit in well. It’ll be a tough choice.
@WWWard I agree with Nashville being more suited towards both me and the college experience in general than Evanston. I live in the desert, so the transition to Chicago weather would be much harder than Nashville :). The quarter system does not really bother me about NU; my HS is on the trimester system and I’m fine with it, but I don’t know if that is indicative of the college system. In your second paragraph, you said Northwestern twice for the STEM programs… I’m assuming you meant Vanderbilt for the ST and Northwestern for the EM? And out of curiosity, what is your daughter interested in majoring in?
I’m planning a visit next month to NU, so maybe I’ll get some more ideas on how to make some decisions.
@Ariz0na : I honestly think NU for undergraduate is at least more of a “STEM school” as a whole (not just than Vanderbilt, but than many schools in or near its tier). They have more robust mathematics and statistical science offerings and are also extremely strong in the life sciences (which is why they’ve been offering the Integrated Science Program for decades). The only near identical program I found was neuroscience. Their neuroscience curricula look more similar than other programs. But in general, for undergraduates NU is a more hardcore STEM school than most places in the top 25 in terms of rigor of coursework, numbers of students majoring in such areas, and the general “scene” for STEM majors (as in, it contributes more to the social and extracurricular scene). It’s kind of like how Stanford looks more like an MIT than it does a Harvard because of how influential STEM is in the social and EC scene. I would say that NU looks kind of like a JHU or maybe a Cornell in this aspect . Proportionally, the size of Engineering + CS is similar at both (like if you scale, Vandy would have the same amount in engineering/CS), but things such as biological sciences and chemistry are more populated there. It always “felt” different from schools that it is typically compared with. Other similar places that also feel as if they have a huge amount of STEM majors are Emory and WUSTL which of course are life sciences dominated (both would have neuroscience and biology add to over 15%! Let us not count all the people who count themselves as pre-health/med).
I suspect Vanderbilt only submitted Arts and Sciences and Peabody, but without engineering, only math even breaks 5%. At the others with or without engineering, certain life sciences exceed 5% and approach or surpass 10% (especially when combined). Given this, it would make sense that at Vanderbilt, there is no sort of slant in the academic scene (or the academic social scene, whatever). If you want more balance, Vanderbilt is the place, but if you like a more vibrant UG STEM scene, VU can have an edge. The two will just feel very different. If you are seriously evaluating academics, I would visit both and sit in on first year and/or second year courses you expect to take and see if you notice a difference in the teaching or even classroom atmosphere (does it seem stressful/tense, do teachers use innovative strategies and teaching, etc). What I’ve seen in terms of course material isn’t as helpful in deciding in this case.
If you are a weather and “pretty campus” voter and are willing to assume the same type of academics and intellectual scene, then lean Vanderbilt. Otherwise, you will have to try hard on visits to feel them out beyond what the tour guides and what we on CC tell you. Good luck!
Yes… my mistake.
No… I actually meant it the other way around… NU for ST and VU for EM. But if your primary focus is engineering, it could just be splitting hairs. They both have solid programs in engineering. The only areas that really seem to stand out at either college in terms of STEM specifically may be the biological & natural sciences at NU and mathematics at VU.
Other than UChicago, I doubt that there is another elite college in the U.S. more diametrically opposed weather-wise to the desert than Northwestern. The people that I have known who went there have used words like brutal and extreme to describe their long, windy and dreary winters. We live in FL, so it would be quite an adjustment for my daughter as well - if she were to make the transition to Chicago.
Her primary area of interest is in film/tv production, and her second choice is communication - especially related to media and entertainment. Both of those academic areas favor NU vs VU based upon all of her research thus far.
My daughter’s friend went on a tour of a variety of colleges over the summer, including VU. Prior to the trip, she had VU ranked pretty low, but now it is solidly her first choice… among colleges like Duke, Emory, UNC, WF, UF, FSU, UMiami. She plans to study marine biology. In her case, the campus vibe and Nashville area won her over. She had considered NU, UChicago and some Ivies & other elite schools in the northeast, but she is now determined to stay in the southeast and is applying to VU early. So… seeing the school in-person and ultimately feeling comfortable there is likely the most important thing.
My daughter’s top choice is actually USC… and specifically their School of Cinematic Arts. Her sister attends USC already and will be a senior there next year. If you live in the desert of AZ, you have likely then already considered and ruled out USC. But if not… they do have excellent engineering programs there at USC. I would also recommend Stanford of course. Plus USC really does have an amazing global alumni network in my opinion. It is truly staggering the availability of internships, etc and the resources that the school generates toward making sure that its graduates leave with a job already in hand. It certainly was not that way in my day when I was graduating from Hopkins.
NU does make my daughter’s current top 5 list though… USC, Stanford, Yale, Brown, Northwestern. All are great programs, but she really has her heart set on USC now. She is applying to 13 colleges in total (including 3 safeties) and has VU ranked 7th.
NU in Oct… you should only expect 43-63 degrees, nowhere near as bad as the 12-30 degrees range for Jan.
Again… good luck…
NU is stronger in all 4 for undergraduate. There is really no hair splitting. I guess engineering programs tend to be more similar curriculum wise because accreditation requirements are more strict. But NU is generally known for stronger engineering, science, and math programs for undergraduate (where is Vanderbilt’s statistics department and Integrated Science Programs? The students there major in math, but there is just math whereas NU has more of it weaved into much of its UG curricula via things such as statistics). It may have to do with the other co-curricular oppurtunities offered in it. A bigger difference shows up in USNews and World Report for UG engineering than when ranking the overall school with NU at 13 and VU at 36. So for that specific program, NU is superlative and indeed ranks along with schools known for more intensive and dominant STEM atmospheres such as JHU, Princeton and public schools known for it such as Madison and Austin.
@WWWard : USC’s engineering is about the caliber of VU, but USC of course has an extremely fortuitous location in terms of possible Tech jobs. If your D likes USC, I don’t understand why VU isn’t higher on the list. They have a very similar vibe and the main difference is the size and location I guess. They are both academically excellent and have some similar strengths.
The daughter’s friend is choosing on social feel as most of the others are definitely better for something like biology (specifically Marine) or Neuroscience (the programs are more well developed and more money is thrown toward innovative instruction), especially Duke, UNC, and UMiami. The undergraduate scene for those sorts of majors are not remotely the same. In addition, some of the others have more focus on ecology/evolutionary) in the biology curriculum (Duke, UNC, UMiami, Emory) and/or stronger than normal environmental sciences departments that would allow more access to marine biology opps. that may not formally be offered.
JHU, your alma mater has always been known for sending students to higher degree programs, especially PhDs so it is just a different atmosphere altogether. The students have different goals in mind clearly. JHU outperforms many/most places in terms of post-grad academically oriented awards (Rhodes, Fulbright, etc), so it isn’t doing bad given its focus. Neither is NU (but interestingly, in terms of arts, film, and journalism, NU and USC have lots of overlap. NU, academically, is like a mix of the two but felt more like JHU socially to me).
I guess your daughter is interested because of the cinematic arts? I’d agree that 4/5 of those places have a bigger arts presence on campus/in the social scene so could be nice if that is her interest.
Thanks everyone!
@WWWard Interesting input. Vandy has definitely moved higher on my list. As for USC, I am definitely applying, and a big pull is their half tuition National Merit scholarship. Regarding weather, I was just joking with my friend the other day, saying that if I go to NU, I’ll experience the two worst extremes of weather - scorching summers and frigid winters! I guess it would be an experience. Johns Hopkins is also on my list, how was your time there?
@bernie12 Again, interesting. My HS right now is a more STEM leaning school, so i think I’d like the atmosphere at NU. However, I do like Vanderbilt’s math program and its geographic aspect. I was planning on applying ED to NU, but now I’m starting to rethink that. Why is this process so hard?! 
@bernie12 Thanks.
There is no question that JHU has a very intensive and dominant STEM atmosphere. And yes - its pre-professional emphasis seems stifling at times. I did not attend it for STEM, but most of my friends there did so. Many of them though had the same sort of complaints about JHU that I did… everything from campus, location, social scene, limited scope as an overall university, etc. 4 years is a long time to be dissatisfied. About 1/2 of the people I knew well, including myself, contemplated transferring. I stayed to take advantage of a unique BA/MA program and finished it all early. I escaped by actually attending 3 different JHU campuses during my time there… including D.C. and Bologna, Italy. I ultimately enjoyed the overall experience, but my time at JHU’s Homewood Campus was the least memorable part of my college experience. If I could go back in time, I would have aimed more toward Princeton or Brown myself.
My point is that there is a lot more to the overall college experience than just the specific perceived strength of an academic program. There is the notion of your quality of life and enjoyment while there - plus the strength of that school’s alumni network, its location for internships and job opportunities, etc.
I do not know personally someone who attended VU for engineering. I know a few who attended NU and USC though. Those who attended USC seem to be doing better career-wise thus far. And I certainly know that they enjoyed college more overall. Ultimately, USC’s location and global reach were the likely reasons why their careers though are on a better trajectory. I also know people who attended VU for math and economics. Both are doing well and enjoyed VU immensely. NU seems to be a little like JHU in terms of the way grads perceive it… meaning that they look back more fondly and respectfully now than they enjoyed it as an experience while there.
As for my daughter, it is all about the strength, reputation and alumni network related to the USC School of Cinematic Arts. She currently favors NU over VU due to the strength of NU’s Radio-TV-Film program, its Communication School and drama department. The three are all inter-related to her goals. VU does not seem to compare with NU on those fronts. But again, it is not all just about the major, as she ranks Stanford, Yale and Brown higher than NU, and maybe only Yale among them is known for film production.
College selection is a balancing act of sorts. In my daughter’s eyes thus far… there are her top 4, a group of 6 others that are all relatively similar and then her 3 FL fall-backs.
As for my daughter’s friend, I suggested that she strongly consider UMiami and Duke over VU for the major she plans to pursue, but VU won out just in terms of the overall feel. More and more, it seems that applicants are looking for that as the final tipping point, and I do understand that. It is why I would have ruled out Hopkins if I could have a do-over. It just never felt right to me while there. And a lot of that had to do with they type of individuals overall who chose to attend there on the one hand and its overall limitations as a true university on the other.
I have warned my daughter that NU seems a little too similar to JHU in some regards… but as you suggest, it is NU’s areas of overlap with USC (arts, film, and journalism) that may allow NU to be ultimately okay – especially since film/tv production requires so much time and dedication to that single focus. NU feeling like JHU socially certainly isn’t a strong selling point lol
@Ariz0na Well, if you read my post above, you can likely gain my overall sense about JHU. Hopkins, in my opinion, requires a certain amount of tunnel-vision for a student there to be truly content. And that is certainly fine for some students. It was not for me. It may have changed some since I was there… but I doubt that it has changed much.
I had applied there and chose to attend Hopkins because of a certain program, but I failed to adequately consider all of the other aspects of college that would prove to be important to me. It was harder to research things or gain a sense back then… pre-Internet. If you are committed to academics solely, or if that at least dominates your focus 75% or more, JHU may be fine for you. But, to me, JHU was just too limiting on so many other fronts. Luckily, I ignored the rule about freshmen having cars, and me and my friends were able to escape often… to D.C., Atlantic City, NYC, even as far away as Boston. We left and went to find what was missing at Hopkins elsewhere. Without such an escape outlet, I doubt that I could have stayed there at JHU without transferring. It just wasn’t the right fit for all that I wanted college to be.
Only you can judge what is important to you. NU may be a better fit for you if you are pre-professional or solely focused on STEM-oriented schoolwork. If your interests are wider, somewhere like Vandy, Duke, UVa or Rice may be a better fit. VU simply seems to offer more than NU in terms of options and diversity. I see it as offering more in terms of its location too… but I have developed a slight bias against the Chicago area over time - due to a # of factors. I actually hope that NU does not emerge as the best available option for my own daughter for exactly those reasons.
USC offers even more in terms of overall options/diversity in my opinion. No university offers more majors or minors. No university offers more student organizations. You can choose to be isolated and truly focused… or you can be super-social and involved to the max. USC offers tier one academics and athletics. It is a true university in every sense of the word. Your overall college experience is entirely up to you at USC. Those options quite simply do not even exist at a place like JHU. And NU seems to be much closer to JHU on that spectrum. VU seems to be closer to USC on that spectrum.
I suggest that you take a look at some of the student and alumni survey results and rankings at https://colleges.niche.com/rankings/best-colleges/ To me, this site and all of its info more accurately reflects what is / was important to me… and to my two daughters. It creates a balanced analysis of colleges and the overall college experience. For example… they rank USC 10th overall, while US News ranks them 23rd. NU: #30 vs #12, VU: #17 vs #16. JHU: #39 vs #10. As a Hopkins grad… I am willing to say that JHU is much closer to #39 in reality than it is to #10. If you want to rate academic programs in a vacuum fine… but again, we are also talking about 4 yrs of your life.
To me, the Niche rankings are much more accurate… or at least they are to what is important to me and my family. But you can of course decide for yourself…
So… just curious… what is your total list currently? My daughter’s is… USC, STANFORD, YALE, BROWN, VANDERBILT, RICE, Northwestern, Virginia, DUKE, TEXAS, UMIAMI, FSU and UTAMPA.
@Ariz0na I’m the antithesis of all those things too. I love it here. Any sphere you decide to occupy will have things to offer you. It may be a lonely first day or two, but trust me, it gets amazing once classes start and people settle into their various schedules. Don’t make it a decision based on that. Go with your gut. If it says NU, then go wildcats. If it says VU, go 'dores and correct answer 
@WWWard Here’s my list:
U of Arizona
UCSD
UCLA
USC
Boston University
Georgia Tech
Northwestern (ED. I think.)
Wash U in STL
Rice
Vanderbilt
Hopkins
Dartmouth
Brown
Kind of long, I know.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, I showed my counselor my list, and he (who’s known me for a few years) seemed kind of surprised that VU was on my list. He said he doesn’t think it really matches my personality. Hmm.
@WWWard ,
You are confusing. T & E usually go together at the undergraduate level and they refer to engineering. I have never seen any ranking that ranks VU higher in EM. NU is ranked higher across all areas, at times significantly depending on the field.
I disagree with your claim that NU is similar to JHU. JHU is known for its premed with a much higher percentage of premeds, NU students are much more diverse with one-third in specialty schools - communications, journalism, education, and music, all of which enjoy national reputation.
I wonder what you meant exactly when you said VU offers more options. With more than 4,000 courses per year across six different schools, NU offers more majors and combinations than many private peers. OP indicates his/her interest in economics. NU offers related areas in industrial engineering & management sciences (top-5 in the country), mathematical methods in social sciences (unique in the country and enjoys great reputation in both academia and industry), and undergraduate certificate programs in financial economics or managerial analytics through their world-renowned Kellogg School of Management. Outside perhaps Penn, I don’t know any private school out there that offers as much.
Of course USC offers more options/diversity given its size. With 19,000 undergrads, its size is closer to many public Us than private Us. As for career trajectories, I used to live in LA and I know some USC grads that do well and some that don’t. You can’t generalize based on how few people are doing. Last I heard, NU reported 95% employment rate for their engineering grads. That’s a great start and I doubt USC would give better outcome. Anything after that has more to do with the individuals than what schools they graduated from.
@IWannaHelp : When I said that JHU compares to NU, I meant that they are both fairly intense academic programs where you can definitely “feel” the influence of STEM in the social, extracurric, and co-curric. scene, whether it has a life sciences or engineering and technology slant doesn’t matter. They just “feel” more similar in that respect as those places do with other schools that have high STEM and pre-health populations. It isn’t like VU where, when you take away engineering, not many programs (especially STEM related) rise above 5% of the student body. STEM permeates many other school’s atmospheres much more despite many of them being still solidly balanced as you point out. In addition, I’d like to point out that many elite privates have abnormal amounts of pre-meds (% wise) and that they could also be distributed into the other units of NU that you mentioned. JHU, unlike WUSTL or ND does not really have a specific pre-medical studies degree. In comparison to all of these places, VU is certainly on the lower end for pre-health %.
I’m of the general opinion of everything else you said. NU has always had very diverse mathematics related offerings across the curriculum for undergraduates. VU is known for its graduate level stuff and strong faculty. I looked at the math department requirements at both and noticed that Vanderbilt was one of the few top schools not requiring a Foundations sort of course for all majors which struck me as strange and it does not yet have undergraduate statistics.
I feel that the “happiness” thing/enjoyed time there often is associated with how difficult students perceive the academics along with things like weather and stuff. NU and JHU do not have a “laid back” vibe that some places. The pressure-cooker feel comes only partially from students pressuring themselves while also having the fact that many of the STEM courses are just flat out harder than many “happier” peers. Again, these schools (and many of the super heavy pre-health and engineering schools) have the instructors who give exams hard enough to mark on a curve. Many of the same courses in more laid back programs at other schools have instructors consistently aim for exactly an 80 or so average on exams suggesting that the exam “somewhat” challenges the average student but is likely not asking them to go far beyond memorization or the problem types they’ve been introduced to already. The other schools are bigger weeder schools (perhaps because of tons of pre-meds) and just so happen to have lots of instructors that make the students go above and beyond what they were taught to make something like a B+ or higher. Needless to say, students will be more stressed dealing with scenarios they consider “unfair”. Even if quality of life is pretty good, that will change perceptions of the experience to something more neutral or even negative as they go through the experience. All STEM folks at top schools are/feel screwed versus many schools with much less competitive admissions, but technically some students are more screwed than others. Some schools just have a culture largely built around the intensity of the academic programs.
Both VU and NU will offer all you need as an UG engineering major. Most of their academic metrics are very similar The 15 hours/week you spend in the classroom will be similar at both. The greatest differences are outside the classroom. If you want to know what the current students say about their quality of life, how well their college is run, how happy the students are, what they think of their base city, how much the students love their school, etc…look up the Princeton Review results.
One small correction – I do not believe Wash U has a “pre-med” degree. Notre Dame used to have a “pre-professional studies” degree.
@Parche : My bad. Yes, I was referring to that ND degree which students would ultimately construct a pre-med degree. I got confused with the University Scholars in Medicine program I think. Many schools have similar programs now.
@bud123 : You say this to give an edge to Vanderbilt, where students claim that everything is perfect in every category and PR is based on student surveys. I’m glad the students there are happy, but I suspect they have no real idea how it is at other schools so do conflicting things like say: “we party the most, but we also do more academic work than Harvard and are in fact comparable to MIT in terms of how hard we work” (other metrics such as a new one showing how many hours students are awake suggest otherwise and that it is in fact more on par with near peers). I don’t trust student surveys but so much. There is also naturally a selection bias as only certain students would oblige to such surveys when solicited. In addition, with the academic work thing, the major distribution vs. other top schools is counter intuitive to claims that they work harder than near peers because of some of the highest populated majors have been labelled as relatively easy by the students that attend.
Just saying that our gauges are very poor. The only believable thing is that it does indeed have a very high quality of life (I can trust such ratings because students are very attuned to things like dorm and dining quality along with campus upkeep), strong academics (again how would they know how they are relative to other places without seeing course content), and happy students. How “happy” this ranks vs. others, no one really knows. All we can say is that the students taking the survey feel strongly about it and that there is a clear pride in the school that is kind of uncritical of it.
If you consult recent post-grad award performance, it is exactly on par with less selective (stats wise) near peers.
And if someone is serious about academic quality, they want to know more than whether or not each program “gives them what they need”, they want programs that exceed the offerings at other places. It takes more research to figure this out. These students don’t just settle for: “they meet this bare bones minimum requirement so choose on quality of life”…come on now.