Why you chose Pace?

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>I agree that hilary is a gem! You are so helpful. Your school should know how good of a spokesperson you are on a site like this which is read by many prospies. </p>

<p>I have to echo triplethreat that it doesn't matter if your school, or any school is a big or intense dance program. BUT the field of MT involves the skills of acting, singing, and dance. I can't imagine taking a year off from training in dance (many enter already with training) and how that can be beneficial in the long run. While some schools are not balanced and offer more in one area than another (or even a BM which emphasizes the music end), most programs offer training in all three areas every year. Dance is a skill that will be necessary at many auditions in the real world. Sometimes you audition with singing and then dance at callbacks and do sides at callbacks, though there are many other variations of the audition process. Some shows have no dance. But many do and it is so hard to get work that it pays to be skilled in all three areas. </p>

<p>What students and parents must do is to read the four year curriculum at every school as it differs WIDELY! Some schools have very little in the way of voice/speech (this is not the same as singing voice). Some have less semesters of private voice. Some have piano, some don't. Some have dance all four years, some don't. Some who even have dance all four years, have only one disipline per year or semester. Other programs have all dance disciplines every semester. Some have more acting than others. Some programs are equally balanced between acting, singing and dancing and some are not. Some BFA programs include studies of theater and some do very little with that. And so on. Compare and contrast. The programs differ a lot in terms of what is taught.</p>

<p>PS....classes at Steps on Broadway and Broadway Dance Center cost additional money over tuition and also could be harder to fit in on top of an already full BFA class schedule, rehearsals, and so forth. The costs and time need to be weighed.</p>

<p>I am only talking about what to consider and not so much about Pace as I do suggest Pace to certain students!</p>

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<p>The lack of dance first year was almost a deal-breaker for my son as he had just begun to dance. He plans to go outside but maybe he can hook up with the students for the reasons Susie states. I do not know anything about the Mannes program and my son did not either. One other problem is that there is only one practice room and it is difficult to access.</p>

<p>Re NYU: My understanding is that if you go to the Tisch school you are going to outside studios, not NYU faculty. And I hear the dorms at NYU are not air-conditioned.</p>

<p>It has been said many times on this site that there is a school for everyone. It could also be said that no one school is good for everyone. The trick is making your best choice then finding a way to make that work.</p>

<p>Thanks again to Hilary.</p>

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<p>Beriglour, while this is a Pace thread, you have commented about Tisch and I'd like to correct some misconceptions if I may. </p>

<p>Many of the NYU dorms are air conditioned. My D has lived in three of them and they were all air conditioned! I believe there is a lower cost housing option for a couple of dorms that do not have A/C .</p>

<p>The BFA part of going to NYU involves conservatories that NYU contracts with to run the professional training part of the degree (the non academic type classes). The training is also all included in the tuition. The curriculum includes voice, dance, and acting and much else of course. The tuition includes private voice lessons every week as well. There are no extra fees for any educational training to go to Tisch. </p>

<p>That is not an analogy to going to Pace and having to not only pay to attend dance classes in public studios in the city, but to have to fit that in outside of their BFA and liberal arts classes. At NYU, every single semester has ballet, tap and jazz, or at least three disciplines (and many levels of each discipline per year/grade). Tisch is contracting for the professional studio training. The curriculum in the studio is part of the Tisch curriculum. The private lessons are required every semester as part of the curriculum as well. Tisch is approving the curriculum. The classes at studio are attended by ONLY NYU/Tisch students in the BFA program (unlike the case at Broadway Dance or Steps on Broadway). The student is graded and receives credit for all studio training. At my D's studio, during the week, the only students there are Tisch ones. In summers, there are pre-college programs and professional programs. This year, there is a new weekend program for high schoolers. But the studio at CAP21 during the week during the school year, is just Tisch. </p>

<p>I definitely agree with your statement that no one school is the right fit for all students and finding the right match is the whole idea. One school is not better than another but simply a better match as to what each candidate wants in an educational program. And even then, students have to realize that many schools on their list may not match up perfectly in every which way with every criteria they have. They should pick a school that matches up as closely as possible wiht many criteria and perhaps give in one area to get in another (ie., give in on preferred location, to get preferred size or preferred curriculum, etc.).</p>

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<p>I will double check into the Mannes program thing. I'm pretty sure that this is something that Pace (not the department itself) still believes is part of our program. Now that we are a real MT BFA program, we have our own voice teachers and resources; I think this Mannes thing was a pre-BFA program thing, however, I could be wrong. </p>

<p>BAck to Dance, I dont want it to be concieved that Pace doesnt put an emphasis on the importance of dance because we do. It is VERY important. I am obviously unaware of the NYU curriculum, but because of the liberal arts requirements here, taking three dance classes, plus, voice, acting, other theater requirements, and CORE would be IMPOSSIBLE. Not only for time but credits. Our students would never graduate on time if they were REQUIRED to take dance every semester; we do however have dance requirements that include all disciplines- tap, ballet, jazz, theater dance, etc. </p>

<p>It would be an incredible disservice to our students of the emphasis on dance was lacking, and like I said, I want to make it VERY clear that it is not the case here. Unfortunatley, however, it is just not something that typically fits into the freshman schedule due to other requirements. Despite that, there are several dance students here, who like I said previously, have paced their own way. I'm talking actual dancers, those who have been to programs that 1,000 audition for and 20 get picked, etc. and somehow they still chose Pace, even after getting accepted to other schools with a probably much better suited dance regime such as Tisch. I am not making this a competition of course, just simply trying to get back on topic and not let the info about other schools disenchant the qualities of our program. Pace is a very different program than Tisch but thats becuase its for a very different performer... make sure you dont judge until you go on the audition and see the people; thats the only real way you'll know who you fit in with. Having talked with said dancer who chose Pace, its just a feeling; the lack of strict dance program took second to her sense of comfort here... to me thats what its really about. yes everything else is important, but either way you'll get your education; its about loving what you do, but also loving the people you do it with :)</p>

<p>I'm not sure that I have met more than 3 people in my years here who werent happy here or who had yet to become part of the family we are. I have also met very few MT freshman this past week who have had anything but a wonderful and amazing experience so far. I know I'm straying off of the topic of the past few threads, but the dance thing isnt why people chose Pace anyway, it is the atmosphere- sometimes literal, but almost always because of the people and support system that we provide. Yes there are a LOT of freshman this year, but our MT program still has not breached even the 75 student marker... small and supportive and growing- thats Pace in a nutshell.</p>

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<p>I know very little specifically about Pace, but would like to reaffirm what Hilary is saying - some people may be turned off by the 4 vs. 3 years of dance - others, not. I personally know of 2 "top" schools whose voice lessons are taught by graduate students their first year, then they switch. I know of another "top" school (in some people's minds) whose voice lessons all 4 years are from graduate students. To me, that is totally unacceptable - to some, it may be okay. </p>

<p>The point is to investigate, prioritize, then find schools that best suit your needs. And, I love Hilary's point about the department being a family - the small programs, and the good ones - that's the way it should feel :) Do you want to finish school and try to enter this business with a family of supporters, or with just a larger pool of competitors?</p>

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<p>Thanks Hilary (once again!) and MusThCC for your thoughts and thoughtfulness in being involved in this discussion. There are pros and cons with every program my D and I have looked at thus far. What it all boils down to is if my D thinks she could be happy there with the program "as is". I say "as is", because there's always the possibility that positive changes could occur over the next few years, but that really shouldn't be counted on.<br>
D really thinks she wants that small, "family" kind of atmosphere that you say Pace offers. But I'm not sure if that would be enough to make up for less time spent training. MT students enter college from very diverse backgrounds and levels of training. I think it might be difficult for students like my D who have had intense training thus far in all three disciplines, to suddenly have their time spent in acting, voice and dance severely restricted. There are liberal arts requirements at most of my D's top choices, but no others seem to require so much that MT training is sacrificed.<br>
On the other hand, if a student is entering college at a point where training in all three disciplines has not been the "norm", then I believe Pace could be an outstanding, nurturing place for such a student.
We still plan to visit, take a good look, and ask lots of questions. With such strong voices speaking up for Pace here on this board, we are encouraged to keep them on our list.</p>

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<p>Musical theater training is not sacrificied..im not sure where that idea has surfaced. Dance is the ONLY discipline that Freshman dont take. That may be a personal opinion of yours, however, it is unfair to have that quite disturbing statement floating around a board designed to promote our program. Nothing is "sacrificed" here at Pace; we are just as intense a program as any other, its just different. </p>

<p>Maybe thats not what you meant, but saying that we are for "less trained" people is an insult. This discussion was restricted to when to dance was offered not what kind of dancers we have. Obviously we dont have a huge dance program so we dont have a lot of dancers, but we do in fact have several, as I have repeatedly mentioned, that have had years of training! The other disciplines havent even been mentioned in this discussion, so why all of the sudden has the idea sprung that we restrcit all MT training-- I dont think we'd be allowed to offer a BFA if we didnt train with the same intesnsity as any other program. </p>

<p>I know that you probably didnt meant to offend AT ALL so dont take this personally, but your statement I found to be incredbily condescending towards our students and what we do here. Dance not being offered Freshman year, as I keep mentioning is the ONLY issue discussed previously, is one minor detail to our program that may not attract students who want to be dancers. It does not however imply that we do not take training as seriously as others.</p>

<p>this may be a bunch of rambles but I canNOT let something that implies our program to be for less serious or less trained students be that last thing said.</p>

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<p>I agree with you 100%, Hilary, and I apologize. What I wrote did NOT come out as I had intended it to. In fact, I should not have posted what I did AT ALL! I'll try to redeem myself:
Dance...I think we've covered that adequately. I happen to think dance is essential. It would be missed. I certainly have NOT commented on the QUALITY of dance training you offer, only that I'm disappointed that it's not an option for freshmen.
Voice...one 45 min. lesson per week, and one 20 min. session with an accompanist per 2 week period would be a considerable drop in training time for my D. I should not assume that there are others out there with that same background, or imply that they, or my D would not flourish with the training that is offered at Pace. I merely wanted to convey that there are other programs that more closely mirror what she has become accustomed to. My comments were NOT at all about QUALITY of training...only about the time that is devoted to each area.<br>
We have never discussed any of the acting classes, other than to establish that all classes are taught by the BFA acting faculty, and that students from all programs would be in classes together. Certainly, that sounds very encouraging, given your school's reputation with it's MFA acting program and your relationship with Inside the Actors Studio. My D has yet to explore your offerings in that area, but is anxious to do so.<br>
Again, I have NOT made any judgements on the QUALITY of education at Pace. I'm sorry I gave that impression.<br>
There is an idea that I've tried to convey, and I've done a lousy job thus far. I never wanted to offend anyone, especially you. My thought is this: There are students out there, pre-college, that have experienced a great deal of training already, and there are those who have not had the same opportunities. It doesn't mean that one is going to succeed and the other is not...it doesn't mean that one goes to a "good" program and one goes to an "inferior" program. It means that each student looks for the program that seems right for them at the level they are at currently. When all is said and done, what matters is that every student is challenged and every student progresses throughout their college career. It's all about finding the proper fit, right?
Just because my D MAY find another program more challenging and a better fit for her at the level she's currently at, doesn't mean Pace is inferior. For all I know, she may come to Pace for a visit, LOVE IT, and decide to audition because she feels like it would be a perfect fit. I sincerely hope I haven't ruined it for her, and that she would be welcome.<br>
Thanks for hearing me out, and again, my most sincere apologies. If I ever post here again, I will be VERY careful in how I phrase things!</p>

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<p>Please please dont be afraid to post your thoughts, I just wanted to defend the program :) I'm up for discussion on any and all aspects of how we do things here. But I will defend what we do here when something is called into question haha. I just want to use this board as it is intended to be used, and that is to discuss, promote, defend, justify etc. what each program does and is about and thus will always try to make sure that what is written about our program is true. I would never say our program is better or worse than any other; as I said previously, every program is right for someone, others not so much. This is just a place to get factual information about each program and I just wanted to make sure that Pace is represented and defended. </p>

<p>Please ask questions and please have opinions :)</p>

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<p>I have the opinion that Pace is definitely worth looking into and I believe if everyone is as friendly and helpful as you, Hilary, it's a great place to be!</p>

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<p>We have experience with Amy Rogers outside of Pace and cannot imagine a better MT educator!</p>

<p>Her real-world perspective is freshing and she tells it like it is. She also seems to focus on the audition and every aspect of it.</p>

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<p>I thought that you would like to see the following excerpt from the most recent issue of the Pace Press newspaper:</p>

<p>"The attractiveness of the University's co-op and career services program is also viewed highly. The University offers the largest co-op program in New York City, which ranks ninth in the nation, surpassing New York University and Fordham. </p>

<p>According to program coordinators, 50 percent of students enrolled in co-op are later employed by their internship companies. The program is connected with over 500 companies, including many of New York's Fortune 500s, MTV and NBC. It is designed to directly relate to a student's field of study.</p>

<p>Freshman theater major Meghan Blakeman said, "The vast opportunities at Pace are initially what drew me to this school. Its ideal location in Manhattan combined with stellar academics made Pace the best choice for me. As a theater major I love the city and my hopes of hitting Broadway are closer and more attainable because of the programs here."</p>

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<p>I would just like to comment that I sent in my application to Pace several weeks ago and asked for an audition date. Though it appeared that one hand didn't know what the other was doing in terms of setting dates and coordinating applications etc., the admissions department did a fabulous job personally assisting me. In particular, the asst. director of admissions, followed up until she made sure all was confirmed, etc. They have been so warm, welcoming and helpful.</p>

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<p>I agree that Pace needs improvement in the organization department. I encourage those interested not to be turned off by that. My son is just loving it there. He is a freshman in the honors program so he does carry about 18 credits. He is not a life-long dancer but he is getting free dance from a very accomplished junior or senior student. He also pays privately for classes at Broadway Dance studio. He has an on-campus job that pays for this.</p>

<p>He is "happy as a pig in mud". He was not cast in Ragtime, the current show but wants us to come up to see it because he is so proud of friends who are in the show. </p>

<p>We hear weekly about some famous person that he met or saw at Pace presidential candidates, Halle Berry, John Cusack, Edward Albee and a whole bunch of master class teachers who are famous in his world but whose names are meaningless to me! And this is only his first semester.</p>

<p>He loves the easy access to the rest of the city. Pace has no campus in the city so "the city is the campus." That is fine with my son as his other top choices were U of the Arts in Philly and point Park in Pittsburgh also "no campus" city schools.</p>

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<p>beriglour, I'm so happy you posted. My D was wondering how difficult it might be to keep up with school work AND take dance lessons somewhere such as Broadway Dance Center. If your son is carrying that many credits (in the honors program, no less!) AND working an on-campus job, I guess it MUST be do-able! My D has heard some really positive feedback from a friend of hers who knows someone currently in the program, and she's really looking forward to her audition there. We've heard that Audra McDonald will be conducting a masterclass soon. That's SO exciting! Please keep us posted on your S's experiences.</p>

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<p>We visited our son and saw Ragtime. Budget is clearly a problem. They ran out of programs (we were at the last show) because attendance was better than expected. the set was minimalist--they projected scenes on a movie screen in the background. My son tells me that the department has to rent the theatre! That being said, the acting, singing and the production as a whole was excellent.</p>

<p>About the previous comment about Audra M. coming for a master's class--the students do not seem to know about it.</p>

<p>My son is frustrated. It is not just no dance freshman year. He is in a music theory class covering material that he already knows. they have three classes but all at the same level. The teacher has great background and is well published--my son thinks that this teacher should not even be doing an intro class--they should save him for advanced classes which are not currently offered. My son does not feel like he is learning in the theatre class (perhaps the plight of a NW Cherub) and the class is only three hours once a week. Overall he is frustrated because he is not learning as fast as he would like. He spoke with Amy Rogers (with whom I am quite impressed) but sadly her suggestion was to go out into the city and seek out master classes. He is already paying for dance classes and Pace's tuition is over 40,000.</p>

<p>I may soon be asking about the process of transferring. The problem is that he loves the city and the other BFA in the city does not give much aid and he may be a little short of the academic standards.</p>

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<p>So sorry for the erroneous information regarding Audra M. I merely repeated what D had heard. More importantly, sorry to hear what you and your S are going through.</p>

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<p>Forgive me if I am mistaken but isnt it typical for liberal arts schools to have split focus - on core and theater. Unless you are in a conservatory setting not sure how often a class would run anyway- 3 credit courses are three hour classes. </p>

<p>This year we have begun giving Music Theory placement tests to seperate everyone. Previous years wouldnt have allowed for this being as there much fewer applicants and therefore much fewer attendees. </p>

<p>I tend to find that students who are not cast in shows here their first semester have a harder time believing in what we do here. However, the fact that freshman can get cast in their first semester, to me, is reason enough not to be frustrated....</p>

<p>I also understand, being as I currently go here, that its tough to be in a program that is growing. Its a process and its a tough one. The students are along for the ride too.. we have to deal with the frustrations and setbacks but we also get to experience the giant leaps forward we make each and every semester. You have to be willing to lend a hand to the growth here in order to fully appreciate and take adavantage of what we do here. </p>

<p>Also to comment on Ragtime, not to gloat, but we had many people tell us (not friends and family) that the minimalistic way we went about the show made the story much more poignant and engrossing than any other production they had ever see. And yes budget was an issue concerning set but also a giant leap forward for other tech depts.- we have never been able to have a 16 mic + sound system before and our sound designer had worked on both the 1st and 2nd national tour of Ragtime and our lighting designer was an outide professional freelance LD as opposed to the departmental TD. </p>

<p>The running out of programs was not a bugdet issue but more so that it isnt very typical for our shows to have a crowd of near 400. </p>

<p>I think I know who your son is and if it is who I think it is, he always seemed enthusiastic about whats happening here. But if he is truly unhappy here, I hope he finds what he is looking for soon. </p>

<p>About the master class.. no Audra but we did just have Victoria Clark and in December Lonny Price will be hosting a class.. (maybe the Lonny thing got people confused since he has worked with Audra many times) </p>

<p>that was a lot of rambling but wanted to comment on a few things...</p>

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<p>Thanks Hilary. My son remains enthusiastic, just frustrated. I think he wants it all--a good education and intense training. Given that time is limited he is frustrated about the time spent in the acting class and the theory class feeling like he is not learning. So far he is still committed there. He will put everything into it.</p>

<p>I want to be clear that I thought Ragtime was great. I never saw it before so I cannot compare it. I saw several college productions during his auditions and the ones at Elon, Penn state, UArts, Point Park and Montclair State were all very good to excellent--and Pace was in the same class. I think it is great to be able to do a lot with a little and I think it is great preparation for the future--not every graduate will start out on a huge production Broadway show!</p>

<p>Do me a favor and don't let on to my son that I am writing here. I know what prospective parents are going through and I am trying to help. But I don not want to impact on my son's current experience. thanks.</p>

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<p>No worries! I wont tell him :)</p>

<p>I truly believe in being honest here, which is why I said I want him to find happiness- nobody wants to waste these four years. I know that our program is not for everyone, nor is any program; this is just a place for facts not persuasion :) </p>

<p>RE: Ragtime--I didnt think you were being anything but complimentary but I wanted to just give the production justice despite the lack of set. Knowing first hand how frustrating this technical process was (PSM for the show) I hate knowing that the unfortunate technical situation we were in for this show sometimes affects the opinions one may have despite the immense amount talent.</p>