<p>As a current fourth year undergraduate at William & Mary going into my last semester, I have some expertise in providing some insight into our country's second oldest institution of higher learning. </p>
<p>Now why would someone come on College Confidential and give reasons on not going or even applying to William & Mary? I take this as almost a duty since I was a frequent user on here when I first applied. How na</p>
<p>I am sorry to hear of your lonely, difficult time at WM. Congrats enduring and graduating. My youngest daughter is currently at JMU and having similar social aspect issues. Quite opposite of yours in the fact no one seems to talk about grades, classes, intellectual topics. She’s applying to transfer to WM Fall 2010. She was waitlisted from high school and JMU was her best alternative. </p>
<p>My eldest daughter is a Jr. at WM and getting ready to study abroad this semester at Leiden University, Netherlands. She has personally THRIVED at WM. Her gpa 3.8. Her social life is extremely active. Very active in recreational sports, and has a job she adores in CW. Yes, some of her best friends are from her freshman dorm but friends from all aspects of student life and townies. She will agree to one aspect of your experience…final exams are tough and everyone stresses.</p>
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<p>This is really the only judgment you can make, but the title of your thread suggests otherwise.</p>
<p>momray - my D is at JMU and she takes academics/grades very seriously. She has friends who feel that way also so there are kids there who care about things other than partying. Is your D in the honors program?</p>
<p>I’m curious…did you ever consider transferring to another school?</p>
<p>Or perhaps you were a transfer to W&M yourself?</p>
<p>Interesting post.</p>
<p>I took my D to interview at Davidson College last summer. My research suggested that Davidson has the reputation that students have to work harder to get an B there than most students do to get an A at other liberal arts colleges. I asked the Admissions officer and the tour guide whether that reputation is deserved. The answer was, “Probably not. Besides how does one who has attended only one college have any basis to compare?”</p>
<p>I’m sorry you are disillusioned with W&M, but your experience is just that.</p>
<p>We complained about the grading at W&M 30 years ago. The phrase that the hardest thing about UVA is getting in wasn’t coined yesterday. Two girls on my freshman hall transferred after first semester when they didn’t get As in biology and they wanted to go to med school. W&M seems to take pride in not going along with grade inflation, and it does hurt some kids in graduate applications. However, I feel that lots of graduate school admissions are aware of the issue. They must know that the only way to not graduate with honors from Harvard is to drop out. </p>
<p>I’m more surprised to hear the way the OP is describing the student body. I have lots of friends whose kids either are there or graduated recently and these are happy, well adjusted, socially adept kids.</p>
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According to his/her previous posts, of7271 transferred in following sophomore year and has therefore recently concluded 3 full semesters at W & M. I don’t think that many schools do an outstanding job orienting transfer students, and perhaps this is part of the reason for the OP’s dissatisfaction.</p>
<p>of7271, I’m truly sorry for your unhappiness at this school. I’d have even more compassion and respect for your post if you’d titled the thread “Why I shouldn’t have gone to W & M.” There are unhappy students at every institution of higher learning, and it’s very often because of a poor fit between the school and what the student wants, needs, and expects in a college setting. You weren’t a good fit at W & M, but many students are - the freshman retention rate is 96 percent, according to the most recent CDS.</p>
<p>My two daughters who attended this school would vigorously disagree with your complaints, particularly regarding the accessibility of professors. The youngest just told me that she’s never failed to receive a response within 24 hours. She also mentioned the prof who read two of her drafts for a final paper and gave her extensive comments each time, including, for the second draft, on Thanksgiving evening.</p>
<p>Your experience is what it was, and I’m sure you’re relating it as you saw it. You appear to have had spectacular bad luck at every turn. But I really can’t argue with W & M’s grading policy. If you were a frequent participant on this board before you transferred, you surely read about the rigorous workload and lower-than-usual average GPAs. The average undergrad GPA at W & M is a 3.26, a bit lower than at many comparable schools. But as the other posters have mentioned, it is possible to attain a strong GPA here. Yes, you have to work hard for it. If it’s a real achievement, it’s not supposed to be easy. Nor is admission to a top grad program supposed to be easy. You seem to be complaining about B-pluses and A-minuses; just because you go to every class and turn in every assignment doesn’t entitle you to an A.</p>
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My daughter, as a second semester freshman and prospective history major, emailed one of the history department’s star profs about being admitted to his class, which she in no way was prepared for. It was an upper level course for seniors and grad students, but the guy was retiring and his field is one of my d’s major interests. He responded immediately, and very kindly - he gently dissuaded her from registering by telling her that he’d admit her if she felt prepared to write a graduate-level paper, but that he recommended she take some lower-level classes first. And he then invited her to his farewell lecture and reception. This experience is far more typical of an undergrad’s relationship with W & M faculty members than what of7271 reports.</p>
<p>of7271, having looked more closely at your previous posts, I now see that you made the decision to transfer to W & M without having visited. I’m sure you’d agree now that this was a major mistake - your mistake, not W & M’s. I think you’d be better off, in the long run, by taking full responsibility for your experiences at W & M, not blaming the school because it isn’t what you thought it would be. You’ll come off as a whiner if you communicate that your less-than-desired GPA is really because W & M should make it easier to achieve an A. No grad or professional school is going to countenance that.</p>
<p>You also posted this thread: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/graduate-school/767652-asking-professor-change-grade-gpa-issue.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/graduate-school/767652-asking-professor-change-grade-gpa-issue.html</a> in which you state that a W & M teacher raised your grade from a B-plus to an A-minus upon your e-mailed request (so there was at least one guy who responded to your emails…). You go on to ask about emailing him for an additional grade hike, so that your overall GPA could be a 3.7. It’s hard to see why he should have granted one.</p>
<p>I’m bringing this up in the hope that prospective students and their parents who read your OP can judge it in context. At the very least, you should have identified yourself as a junior-year transfer student who never visited before deciding to attend. It’s fine to dislike W & M, and I’m sure a number of current students do. But don’t you see that you are responsible for much of your disappointment there?</p>
<p>As the mother of someone who has just applied to W&M and has heard nothing but positive things from former classmates who attend there, I really appreciate the posts which offer differing observations about the school. Thank you.</p>
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<p>Because I’ve breezed through school my entire life and am ready to actually be challenged.</p>
<p>I know plenty of people who are incredibly happy with their classes at W&M, as well as people who have made great friends and had great experiences.</p>
<p>Your one experience is not sufficient enough to warrant telling people that they shouldn’t go to W&M.</p>
<p>Two years at North Texas, three semesters at W&M, interrupted by study abroad semester, probably isnt the typical college experience. My heart goes out to the OP, but complaining that the grading is challenging and you dont have a lot of friends ergo this is a terrible school is pretty poor taste. W&M thew you a lifeline out of Podunk U and this is the thanks?</p>
<p>I hope the OP can find peace and contentment. This come from within, not without.</p>
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<p>citation needed.</p>
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<p>if you tell your professor you want to get a PhD they should just give you A’s? What?</p>
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<p>this is contrary to the experience of myself, and all of my friends.</p>
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<p>I never talked to ANYONE about grades. I never knew what the person next to me got on an exam, and I didn’t even know my roommates’ GPA, both of which I lived with for soph - senior years.</p>
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<p>join a club.</p>
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<p>join a club.</p>
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<p>citation needed.</p>
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<p>I had tons of parties with friends and organizations that I was involved in. Maybe you felt awkward as the nonfrat senior trying to pickup freshmen girls at a frat party?</p>
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<p>just because you are not happy with your circle of friends does not mean the same is true for others. Personally, I think one of the best parts about W&M is the people (except that some people are too intense about grades… like the person I saw crying on the phone b/c she got a ‘C’ on an essay… you sound kind of like that person)</p>
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<p>strange. I found the opposite. Luckily you are good at making broad generalizations based on your experiences though, so you can speak to the experience of “most students”</p>
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<p>You wish W&M was more like MTV’s the Real World? Really? You could’ve just gone to community college and saved yourself some money.</p>
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<p>W&M was exactly what I had hoped for, and more.</p>
<p>Perhaps you should’ve transferred.</p>
<p>OP - I’m sorry you had a miserable time… You should have researched better…</p>
<p>Soccerguy… awesome response, thank you…</p>
<p>As for me… after transferring two semesters ago… I still find in WM exactly what I said in my app essay: “an amazing student body, teaching staff, and campus”</p>
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Sorry to say, most people in the US and overseas do not know W&M and often mistake it for a private, Catholic school. Many students think that graduate schools/law schools/medical schools give slack to W&M students for admission because of its difficult reputation. This is wishful thinking. If someone from a overlap school such as Georgetown or Vanderbilt has a higher GPA than a student at W&M, they are more likely to get in than the W&M student (in addition to other factors). Therefore, if you are considering going on with your education, why would you want to put yourself in the position of getting an A- (that’s a 3.7 folks) when you know you should have gotten an A and would have gotten one if you would have attended another school. Why put yourself through that? Even explaining to professors that you may be wanting to go for a PhD and teach is not good enough for W&M. You still get the A- or B+ when you know that you attended every class and participated in class discussions and done well on assignments [ /quote]</p>
<p>So, basically, you think W&M should indulge in grade inflation to match what you think its reputation is? How do you think a reputation for “academic rigor” is achieved? “Show up and get an A?” Yes, it’s hard to get a 4.0 - near-impossible in hard sciences - but it’s supposed to be. Most people who choose to attend know this, and choose W&M <em>because</em> of this. It’s probably <em>the</em> prevailing stereotype about W&M students - a bunch of “grade-grinding, work-aholic nerds who never leave the library, except to commit suicide.” While that’s ridiculous hyperbole, there’s a grain of truth in there. W&M does have a lot of spectacularly intelligent students, with a diverse range of talents and interests. This can be intimidating. I’m sorry if that reputation caught you unawares. </p>
<p>I think your assertion that many people think W&M is a “private, Catholic” school is true among the population at-large - and we know how influential they are in graduate school admissions, right?</p>
<p>If you can find an admissions counselor at a top-25 grad school in the United States that isn’t well aware of W&M’s academic reputation, then clearly, they’re not qualified for their job. (Not the same thing as saying they don’t exist - I wouldn’t go <em>that</em> far… :)) </p>
<p>However, since W&M undergrads have higher success rates at gaining graduate school admissions than “cohort” schools, most people would conclude that W&M’s grading policy isn’t (overly) detrimental to gaining acceptance to graduate school. There may be problems in your own application that you aren’t considering - for example, you may have a less-than enthusiastic recommendation letter in your jacket, or a poor personal statement, or simply be a terrible interviewee. Or, simply a “victim” of the numbers game. I read recently that the average undergrad needs to apply to 14 medical schools to gain admission, and many students apply to 30 or more. They need to do this, because the admissions rate is like 2% - and that from a self-selecting group of pre-meds. </p>
<p>I suggest you read up on Princeton’s grade inflation stance, and the results - [Admins:</a> Data suggest law, medical school admissions unaffected by deflation - The Daily Princetonian](<a href=“http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2009/11/17/24452/]Admins:”>http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2009/11/17/24452/)</p>
<p>Anyway, good luck - graduate school admissions can be almost cruel, and I sympathize for where you’re at.</p>
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<p>So, basically, you think W&M should indulge in grade inflation to match what you think its reputation is? How do you think a reputation for “academic rigor” is achieved? “Show up and get an A?” Yes, it’s hard to get a 4.0 - near-impossible in hard sciences - but it’s supposed to be. Most people who choose to attend know this, and choose W&M <em>because</em> of this. It’s probably <em>the</em> prevailing stereotype about W&M students - a bunch of “grade-grinding, work-aholic nerds who never leave the library, except to commit suicide.” While that’s ridiculous hyperbole, there’s a grain of truth in there. W&M does have a lot of spectacularly intelligent students, with a diverse range of talents and interests. This can be intimidating. I’m sorry if that reputation caught you unawares. </p>
<p>I think your assertion that many people think W&M is a “private, Catholic” school is true among the population at-large - and we know how influential they are in graduate school admissions, right?</p>
<p>If you can find an admissions counselor at a top-25 grad school in the United States that isn’t well aware of W&M’s academic reputation, then clearly, they’re not qualified for their job. (Not the same thing as saying they don’t exist - I wouldn’t go <em>that</em> far… :)) </p>
<p>However, since W&M undergrads have higher success rates at gaining graduate school admissions than “cohort” schools, most people would conclude that W&M’s grading policy isn’t (overly) detrimental to gaining acceptance to graduate school. There may be problems in your own application that you aren’t considering - for example, you may have a less-than enthusiastic recommendation letter in your jacket, or a poor personal statement, or simply be a terrible interviewee. Or, simply a “victim” of the numbers game. I read recently that the average undergrad needs to apply to 14 medical schools to gain admission, and many students apply to 30 or more. They need to do this, because the admissions rate is like 2% - and that from a self-selecting group of pre-meds. </p>
<p>I suggest you read up on Princeton’s grade inflation stance, and the results - [Admins:</a> Data suggest law, medical school admissions unaffected by deflation - The Daily Princetonian](<a href=“http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2009/11/17/24452/]Admins:”>http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2009/11/17/24452/)</p>
<p>Anyway, good luck - graduate school admissions can be almost cruel, and I sympathize for where you’re at.</p>
<p>So the original poster transferred to W&M as a Junior? That’s revealing.</p>
<p>“As a current fourth year undergraduate at William & Mary going into my last semester, I have some expertise in providing some insight into our country’s second oldest institution of higher learning.”</p>
<p>This certainly implies that the OP is in his/her fourth year at the College. </p>
<p>“Good luck at trying to find friends past your freshman hall. Most people even up until senior year eat with their freshman hall mates often in sparse conversation about trivial things in the cafeterias. It is quite sad actually. Parties are typically not very good and because of the awkwardness that most students possess it is even more difficult to meet new people. Most people hang out with the same people over the course of four years, which I think is a bad thing as it is important for people to branch out. It really gets old after a semester.” </p>
<p>Again, this implies that the OP started W&M as a freshman and has spent three+ years there as an undergraduate.</p>
<p>I have no problem with anyone posting about their experiences at a college – positive or negative. But I think it is incumbent on someone who is as negative as the OP is to be forthright in placing the comments in a truthful context. As it is, the post borders on deceitful to me now that I know the truth about the OP.</p>
<p>I realize that my original post has received some vicious debate here on the forum over the past few days.</p>
<p>Having looked back on what I wrote, I regret some of the assertions I originally made. In a time of great anxiety, I posted a long tirade in haste that was completely and utterly not justified and for that I apologize. Sadly, as many of you may be aware, there is not an editing feature after a few minutes on College Confidential, something I would have used after this post was written had it been available to me. </p>
<p>Some of you may be asking what possessed me to write such a negative tirade against the college I will be graduating from this year. Honestly, anxiety about my future and my lack of willingness to accept some grading decisions this past semester were fueled by a place in which I could vent my frustrations, some of which I now realize were completely unfair. </p>
<p>Obviously we are all anonymous here on CC in our own way and that appealed to me to write my perceived frustrations. This combined with my anxiety about what will happen with graduate/law schools spurred my zealous response, for which I regret writing several days ago. It was only after the fact that I realized I had done something in haste and immediately regretted, even before there was the first reply only to find the editing option disabled. </p>
<p>I find it interesting though that the responses included such assumptions as the type of person I am. I hate to break the news to some, but I am actually quite involved at W&M having been in several leadership positions of major organizations in addition to help form a new club on campus this year which has been a surprising success because of many students at W&M who expressed interest. This meant a lot to me at the time and I was very pleased with how well we have done. For purposes of this forum, I am not going to go into detail about what we do exactly but it truly would not be a club today without students getting involved so actively and that is something I should have contemplated when writing my original post. </p>
<p>I do appreciate some of the responses that included sentiments that seemed to realize that everyone has positive and negative college experiences. I suppose this is inevitable in anything in life. I obviously focused on what I perceived to be negatives at William & Mary, some of them quite unfair. Yes, I admit that grading at the school is difficult but I have had some amazing professors and it is because of William & Mary that I am wanting to continue my studies in my subject. If it was not for the love of teaching and learning that exists on campus on a daily basis, I probably would be graduating to find a job. This however is not the case and the interest in continuing my studies is truly because of W&M and I should have also contemplated this when writing my original post. In this way, the College has changed my life in what I see in a very positive and uplifting way. </p>
<p>Therefore, my feelings regarding William & Mary should not be judged entirely on what I originally wrote on this thread as I was quite bitter towards things that I have gotten over. I am sure all of you understand that we have weak points in our lives and for some reason I wrongly assumed that by blaming the school I would feel better. I do hope that everyone reading now realizes this and I want to wish my sincerest apology for having misrepresented my experience at W&M in such an unfair way. Like any experience in life, it has had its ups and downs but I am grateful for the opportunity I have been given by attending one of the most prestigious and historical colleges in the country, something that many people only dream of. For that, I am truly grateful and I hope for those of you that may be consider applying, I wish you the best of luck. To be considered and accepted by William & Mary is truly a great honor and one that should be cherished for the rest of your life.</p>