I just want to start by saying that I completely respect @akhipstertrash and their opinion and experiences. They make some valid points and I get that Union can be tough for people who are interested in politics and activism. One thing I do have to disagree with is the statement that Union’s Average student is a semi-functional alcoholic. That isn’t to say there aren’t a decent number of students whose main focus is to party and have fun. Personally I believe that the student body does love to party but many of them know when to study and when to have fun. I can personally say that most classes above intro level are filled with students who are interested in the material and work hard to try and get the best grades possible. A lot of my friends do like to party on the weekends but we all get our work done and manage to keep pretty good grades. The freshman dorms aren’t the best, but the upperclass housing is way better and if you don’t like the dirty bathrooms there are many housing options where you have a private bathroom that you can clean yourself. I understand your frustration about the Minerva system but I really feel it depends on which house you belong to, personally I’m part of Beuth and love going to their events. I really feel that Union is what you make it, I don’t party that often yet I still have a great time with friends on the weekend. I’m also a little offended how you paint the upper middle class student as I am in that bracket and many of my friends are and we don’t act remotely how you described.
My kid recently graduated from Union. A scientist but not a nerd. Drinks lightly and did not participate in Greek life though many friends were in fraternities and sororities. I am given to understand that there were two or three D & D games at any one time and an especially driven one for the gang that spent the summer on campus doing research. That said, my kid was able to do high level research at Union every summer and was co-author with a professor of a peer reviewed article. I really felt like we got our money’s worth.
@akhipstertrash Thanks for the info. We actually just returned from a tour of Union and I was worried when the tour guide mentioned the Minerva-surfing for free food. The next mention was the huge budget for the Minervas. I would rather see some cost savings and a better run system somehow.
For what it is worth I went to a similar LAC years ago. There were almost no faculty events like you describe. Kids could be pretty vapid. We avoided the frats and just hung out elsewhere. Some rich kids were impossible to stomach. But we just didn’t question it and figured that was “College”. I was not happy but on a full scholarship. I found a small group and things got better every year. Went abroad, etc.
Thanks again. I hope things look up for you.
Williams and Amherst. Great schools. But not exactly bohemian. Athletes and wealth abound.
@intparent Alcohol soaked bro dominated. Any more character assassination? Young men are half the population and the vast majority are fine lads. And not every boy has to wear skinny jeans and winter hat year round to be accepting bright and inclusive.
Hey, OP. Thanks for the forewarning. Union was already in a shaky position, but now I’ve fully taken it off my list. Also, idk if you’re still considering a transfer, but based on the info you’ve shared about yourself, I think Tufts might be a really good fit. Check it out! Good luck with whatever you plan on doing.
edit: forgot to mention @akhipstertrash directly
Honestly, for the intellectual combination of EE and the liberal arts, I recommend that you transfer to Rochester or Tufts.
I can’t think of any other schools that provide you the balance that you seem to be looking for. These small universities will not provide you the most extensive engineering education, but they will provide enough intellectual liberal arts and enough engineering for you to take another step in several different directions.
Sorry that you’ve had this experience.
I think anyone reading this should take @akhipstertrash 's post with a grain-- or perhaps an entire spoonful-- of salt. Many of his/her remarks are obviously grossly overstated, such as that the Union Students have “less motivation for school than the average community college.”
With no disrespect to students at community colleges, the stats show that the Union student body on average has quite strong standardized test scores and class rank. Admissions are selective, and many students come from top ranked, rigorous secondary schools. This belies the contention that there is a pervasive lack of motivation, or academic engagement. Moreover, there is the Leadership in Medicine and Engineering programs which are filled with highly motivated students who had many, many college options. I have met a number of current Union students and grads, and my impression has been very positive.
I feel badly that the OP is having such a bad experience, but I think that his/her indictment of the Union and its student body is overstated. It would not surprise me if much of it stems disappointment in the social life, which I suspect revolves a great deal around the sports teams and athletes, rather than the academic types.
I concur with the sentiment of @alum88. The OP states that Union’s “average student is a semi-functional alcoholic with no regard for others.” That’s a generalization that’s simply untrue and I’m quite sure most Union students would be insulted to be described in this way. I also find it curious that despite the litany of complaints, the OP “will likely return to Union.” The OP should keep in mind that in the event he/she ultimately goes on to graduate from Union, he/she will often be judged by the value of the Union “brand”. Unfortunately, overly critical posts in a public forum such as this do nothing to enhance that value.
With all due respect, Union’s stats are gamed and don’t reflect the actual students on campus. It’s a “test-optional” school, meaning only students with high SAT scores submit them, leading to a higher average SAT score. Even then, the average is only around a 1350. Many students are also recruited for the athletics teams, which allows some students to enter the school already on academic probation (I know of at least two students in my grade for whom this is the case). I am attending for another year only, as I unfortunately didn’t apply to transfer last fall. Lastly, and quite frankly, if airing Union’s dirty laundry hurts their “brand,” it might actually do them some good, since that is the only thing the administration seems to cares about.
I saw you posted in another forum about potentially transferring, unfortunately I think if you transfer there or really a lot of other schools you will be disappointed. Grass isn’t always greener on the other side. In a lot of schools you’ll find students who don’t do the readings, or are not interested in the homework involved and do it because it’s required. It’s just the nature of most schools. Maybe you can try and find another LAC that fits the bill. But most large state schools you listed will either not satisfy your intellectual bar or has a social culture you dislike. There must be others at your current school you get along with
@akhipstertrash. According to the CDS, about 80 percent of the students entering in the Class of 2016/17 submitted test scores. So, with the vast majority submitting, I would say the reported testing stats do generally reflect the students you see on campus. Beyond that, simply because a school is test optional does not mean that it has lesser quality students. Indeed, I can think of several test optional schools that you probably couldn’t have gotten into based on the results you posted for other peer schools. Students who don’t submit test scores often have even stronger academic records or other attributes (e.g. artistic, leadership, diversity, athletics etc.).
PS One of my daughters is at an Ivy League school right now. Actually, it’s one of the harder ones to get into. I sat in on a class during parents’ weekend when she was a first year student. A very difficult science class with complex material. I sat in the back and observed 80 percent of the students surfing the web during the lecture. This exact thing was a criticism you mentioned regarding Union. Personally, I couldn’t believe it, but that’s par for the course these days. It doesn’t mean the students aren’t bright or figure out a way to learn the material outside of class.
@alum88 lecture I can imagine, but I don’t think anyone is surfing the internet during class discussions at any of the Ivies (well, maybe Dartmouth). That format simply doesn’t work when students aren’t engaged; every class discussion I’ve witnessed at Union (outside engineering) has fallen apart because students aren’t paying attention.
Two things, mostly for the benefit of other kids (and parents…) reading this:
- This is an example of why it is important to research schools, for fit, before applying. Union is known for its jock/Greek/party atmosphere. While certainly not everyone on campus is that way, some research on the school might have helped the OP to understand that the overall culture might not be what he or she was looking for.
- Union is not a safety -- no school with an admit rate under 50% these days, unless admits' stats are very poor, can be considered a true safety.
To the OP:
Having learned what to avoid, can you make the best of things by concentrating on your studies and enjoying good times with the friends you’ve made? Life can be difficult sometimes, and if you can learn to deal with this and come out with lifelong friends and a very solid education anyway, well you will have learned to tackle hardship and you will be better for it – prepared for some of the crapp life can toss your way. Sometimes persevering through adversity pays off and even when it doesn’t, it still builds character and helps you to learn about yourself.
I appreciate your honesty here. It’s now 2021 and my nerdy, doesn’t drink, plays DND, engineering major daughter just toured Union and likes the campus best but is leaning toward WPI. She is not interested in Greek life. We are middle class. How did the rest of your experience at Union go?
Not the original poster. But parent of a current Jr. Physics/Math major at Union. He has had a phenomenal experience. He chose not to join a frat while many of his friends did. It hasn’t hurt him at all. He still sees his friends and doesn’t feel like he is missing out. A lot of on campus activities that aren’t Greek life related (though COVID is certainly impacting everything). He has enjoyed the small classes, the close relationships with faculty and the great research pop that started in his freshman year.
Hi there! I’m a recent grad, queer, and a self-described ‘nerdy engineer.’ I absolutely loved Union and easily found my people. Did not join a sorority but had friends in them and others like me who were not in them. My ideal Friday night at Union was staying in and having a game night, and those are some of my favorite memories there. I think Union has a lot of great spaces on campus for people to connect with others who have a lot in common, and at times people who are very different! The Minervas helped me find friends my freshman year especially. My academic experience was excellent: research, conferences, amazing classes and professors. Of course I had a lot of great friends in engineering, but my best friends actually had different majors or were into the same clubs/activities as me. I’m now a researcher and found my current position because of a Union connection.
My best advice for people looking at Union (and colleges in general right now), is to ask several current students for their experiences. I’m sure there are ways to chat with student leaders on social media or something! It’s so important to hear multiple perspectives, and also to understand what resources are truly available to you, and what has changed at Union in recent years. I know there has been some exciting new initiatives on campus around women in engineering, diversity/inclusion efforts, etc.
This is how I made my Union decision back in the day, and I haven’t looked back since. I hope this helps!
Hey thank you for your honest opinion and guidance. A lot of what you say sounds true a bout Union. I really hope they read these posts and Union is doing something about it. As a parent and profesdor i can say it ain’t cheap! I also appreciate that you gave a different perspective. Great post!