At present my son plans to go to PA. We can withdraw by July 1.
I am hearing that the school may actually negatively impact college chances.
My son is a bright happy well rounded child who is comfortable in his skin. He is a great athlete (though not world class) and is very good in terms of executive functions. He is a top of his current private school. He is genuinely curious and engaged. That said, he is not a savant, and I am not sure whether he will be in the top 10 % at PA. I don’t want to send him there and have him penalized.
I am hearing that other than recruited athletes, minority applicants and legacies there is very little prospect of top college admission for students not in top 10%.
I have heard that the kids are internally compared by colleges and, as a result, he would have better college opportunities going to a smaller school where he clearly would excel and be able to have bandwidth to do a lot of different activities. He is not a “pointy” kid, he is a genuinely well-rounded and happy. I care much less about a prestigious high school than a prestigious college. I want him to stay healthy and happy.
Basically, I want to know is PA more likely to help or hurt a non genius white male in terms of his college prospects. I went to the Ivy league from a public high school. There is something to be said about enjoying being a successful student and being able to live a balanced life.
PA is a fine school and there are many good reasons to attend, but hoping to attend an Ivy is not one.
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Why are you switching private schools?
My opinion…choose your high school based in what your student would like in a high school. Don’t choose a high school because you think it will or won’t help your kid get into an Ivy.
I hear that the reason to go to PA is PA.
That said, I have read the Phillipian survey and it sounds pretty miserable there. My son’s best friends are going, and he says he’s up for a challenge. Frankly, I do not want him to suffer a lifelong penalty for going. I am OK with letting him take the challenge but don’t want him to NOT be able to go to a good college in the end. We live close enough that I have seen a numberof PA kids (including a cousin) exhausted, angsty, miserable and winding up at middling colleges. In my neighborhood, the PA kids did not do as well in terms of college goals as public school scholars. It is not that they were any less smart, but they were not able to shine due to all the bigger stars. To be honest, some went in confident and were just squashed by the specialist high achievers.
I am choosing a high school based on where the kid will succeed and continue on with a lot of choices. High school is not culmination, just a start. I don’t know where any of my colleagues went to high school, but I know 100% of their colleges and medical schools, not because I ask but because it is part of the very fabric of academic medicine.
I am trying to clarify how much of plus or minus PA might be for college choices. I do not want him to shortsightedly be mesmerized by name and friends going and inadvertently limit future potential. I am sure PA is great in some ways, but if it limits later options, it can’t be worth it.
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He is not sure. Without revisits he doesn’t really have a sense the school. People have wildly variable perspectives and he doesn’t know what to believe.
He wants to be happy. He wants great teachers, great friends and to play sports. He wants to go to have college options and likes being at the top of his class. He loves learning and is not timid in any way. He does not want to be all work all the time.
PA may not be the right fit for everyone, just as Caltech, the U of C, and Columbia aren’t the right fit for everyone.
And yes, it may matter a lot at what age/maturity level they tackle a challenge.
And you discount the effects of HS maybe because you didn’t attend an elite HS. I can tell you that in order of ranking of how helpful various alumni bases have been to my career (in the business world), the magnet HS I attended is in the middle, after the M7 MBA program I attended but above the Ivy-equivalent I attended.
And even though its focus was not on the liberal arts, I consider the liberal arts education I received there to be better than at college (which, as I noted, wasn’t too shabby).
So consider PA solely on its own merits (and drawbacks). Whether PA is the right fit for your son (compared to alternatives) is something that probably you and your kid can determine better than some strangers on the internet.
But it’s very likely he won’t be top of his class at PA. You and he have to determine if that is a negative or motivator.
You know that you are telling your son that only one type of school will be good enough for you right? In the world of academic medicine, pedigree is often seen as the be-all and end-all, and if that is your world you may think that is true for any other life path that you see as “good enough” for your son.
I am happy for your son that you don’t want to see his spirit broken! But can you honestly tell him that you will be proud of him no matter what college he goes to? My guess is that- at 13?- he already knows that you can’t.
The numbers speak for themselves. In a recent graduating class (2018) of 321 at PA, 77 went to Ivy League colleges, 44 more went to other USNWR top 20 National Universities, and another 36 went to elite (top 20) Little Ivies. That’s almost half the class! Dozens more went to public Ivies or privates that are just a notch below Ivy+ status.
Maybe they’re all legacies. (A lot are.) Maybe they have more than their share of Ivy recruited athletes. (They do.) But one way or another a lot of their alums find their way to Ivy+ or near Ivy colleges. (They can afford the tuition.)
PA isn’t unique. The same success at getting kids into elite colleges exists at many of the schools on the same circuit. That’s why they can command the high tuitions that they do. One of the reasons is that their college guidance departments are geared for that. They provide guidance to their students from early in the process and through to the end. They have contacts at the college level and they work those contacts throughout the admissions process. Unlike your local public high school, they have manageable case loads that allow them the time to do that. In addition, many seek the help of private college counselors and test prep services.
Another reason for that success is that those students and their families aspire to that. They apply ED and EA when chances are better at a higher rate than most kids. If they’re unsuccessful ED/EA, they cast their net wide. Applications to 15-20 colleges are not unusual.
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There is never going to be an easy path to an Ivy level college unless you are donating millions or your kid is the next Tom Brady. What PA can do is make sure your child matches with some great options.
If you take the worry about how prep school will impact college, does that change your opinion of PA?
My D went to a private college prep day HS, not close to the level of PA, but a school where 99% of students went on to four year colleges. The academic and college advising were outstanding and started from day 1. Test prep was integrated into the English and math curriculums. Her teachers in the classroom were also the coaches, the club advisors, the trip chaperones, and knew her super well. They wrote outstanding LORs. (We didn’t see the college recs but some of the summer program ones). They nominated her for awards that would compliment her college applications, built in service and leadership, and her teachers actually cared to celebrate the victories and heartaches with their students.
D had to work her tail off to be top 10% in her school. IMO, that was a good thing. That work ethic prepared her very well for the demands of her chemical engineering curriculum. That said, she still had balance, found time for her activities (that she did because they were fun, not to impress AOs), and looks back at high school very fondly.
She had the college outcome she wanted. Which was not the “prestige” of an Ivy, but of a public, engineering powerhouse, that she loved the second she set foot on campus.
Forget about college and worry about where your child is going to have the best high school experience.
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Everyone here will tell you that you should not pick a BS based on its college matriculation list. That list won’t be your kid! How this will impact your son’s options is unknown. Also know that plenty of high school valedictorians don’t get into the Ivies, so you run the risk of choosing the public for the same, or “worse”, outcome.
My suggestion is to pick the school that’s going to set your kid up to be the best possible version of himself. The academics at PA are probably better than at your LPS in the sense that they are engaging in the classroom and will move at a speed that should keep your smart kid from being bored. Does that matter?
Most kids entering PA were top students in middle school. 90% of them will no longer be in the top 10% of their class. If this is going to crush your kid, it may not be a great choice. If being in a community of kids like this will energize him, who cares where he is in class rank?
BS kids learn how to use resources, including teachers, to learn. This is a great skill. Of course, you don’t have to go to PA to do this but this is definitely important in college, particularly for a kid who has grad school on the radar.
Think about what else your son wants in his life. There are definitely kids at every BS every year who decide not to return, so in many ways, you can think of it as signing up for a year. And not returning isn’t a black mark on your record if it’s really the wrong place.
I think you understand who your kid is now and I hope you care about college matriculation because you want to preserve options for him. But don’t make an Ivy his path at this point.
On balance I think that attending PA would somewhat reduce chances admissions chances for an unhooked white upper middle class student. There will simply be too many hooked kids among your son’s classmates. I have also heard personally and anecdotally many times from parents who felt that college advising at PA and Exeter specifically was biased in favor of certain hooked students at the most elite colleges and universities.
On the other hand, there is no doubt that the education and preparation provided at PA are world class, and those will help your son be successful in college and beyond. Personally, I do not place too much stock in the incremental value of a super elite like PA over any otherwise “good” high school, believing that most of a kid’s outcomes results from inner factors specific to the kid. But if you believe that high school can make a huge difference in terms of personal growth and development, you have a difficult decision. Even parents who have hated the PA and Exeter experiences for their kids grudgingly admit that they appeared to be transformative for their kids.
Best of luck on your family’s decision, and congrats to your son for earning the option to attend PA.
Thank you for the comments.
I wish to clarify that I am not intent necessarily on him going to any particular college.
I don’t mind sending him to a high school with his friends that offers more interesting classes and challenge. I just don’t want to actually hurt his likelihood of attending the college of his choice later because I do strongly feel that college is more important than high school.
Bottom line is the question of whether or not I am actually negatively affecting his chances. I am fine with a neutral.
My neighbors are telling me that PA hurt their children’s college prospects. I’m not sure they are happy with the trade off. I was seeking more input as their experiences may not be representative.
Also our comparison is different. Our local schools are excellent. I don’t need to rescue him from an underperforming school.
Ie is the similar kid in top 2% from a good school and involved better off than the 20% or 30% applicant at PA. It is difficult to read the numbers as so many people are legacies and minorities and athletes.
I am curious where the Phillips Andover kid at the 25th percentile winds up for college without any special pull.
My liberal arts undergraduate education was so life enhancingly wonderful that I want him to have a similar opportunity.
It strikes me that going to a less academically interesting/challenge college than high school might feel disappointing.
As it was for my neighbors.
I know life has no guarantees. If my child felt strongly I would go with his preference. He is not sure
I agree with the above comments…start by assessing which school and environment your S would prefer and thrive in. Do not choose based on access to a certain level of school…there are few slots at Ivies and Ivy adjacents for unhooked students no matter where they attend HS.
One thing to research is how PA handles the college application process. Do the GCs recommend an ED or SCEA/REA school, and it’s basically take it or leave it? Do they limit applications to top tier schools? Limit total apps?
@mothere: I think that you are focusing on the wrong question / issue.
The most important issue is whether or not your son is happy, growing, and challenged in his current school.
If the answer is yes, then he should remain where he is being fulfilled in his development.
If the answer is no–he is not being adequately challenged and is not developing his full potential, then he needs a more challenging environment.
His school ends at grade 8