will high school at andover help or hurt my child's chances of ivy league college admission

Prep School Admissions
41

I’ve hired dozens and dozens of people over the course of my career and I care a LOT more about how a job applicant exceeded expectations in their last job than I do about where they went to college. The last big company I worked at had at least a hundred Ivy Leaguers in mid-level jobs and a CEO who graduated from a “middling” college with a 50+% acceptance rate.

PA will prepare a kid to do well in any college and in life. That matters a lot more than the relative prestige of this or that college diploma.

Pick a school based on where your child is most likely to thrive, not based on admissions. Otherwise, the natural progression of your current line of thinking is to pick a less challenging college to try to game grad school admissions by making it easier to achieve a higher GPA. Don’t rob your kid of the best experience possible now by focusing overly on admissions to the next institution.

42

It depends upon the kid and the class composition. IMO, for a top student with top scores it will help

43

If you are worried about your child competing with the bright kids in a prep school you should not push them into an ivy league school. The competitive atmosphere is real, the clubs are hard to get in, the clubs are not for meeting kids they are for building resumes, the social scene is strange and there is no real down time. I would say a kid should thrive in a competitive prep school to be truly happy at an ivy league school. Of course this is not 100% true but being prepared for the competitive, cut throat environment is important.

44

Here are two hypothetical scenarios: 1. Your child does go to PA and works harder than he has ever worked in his life. He loses interest in a few sports and has a bout with anxiety because of the pressure cooker environment, but with some counseling, he does very well there. And when he applies to college, he is rejected from the Ivies, accepted to Skidmore, Boston College, Hamilton, and waitlisted at Bowdoin.

Scenario 2: Your child goes to a less intense BS or a super high performing public school. He continues his enjoyment of sports and does very well academically. When he applies to college, he is rejected from the Ivies, accepted to Skidmore, Boston College, Hamilton, and waitlisted at Bowdoin.

45

My gut feeling is similar to what @Massmomm seems to be saying: I doubt that your child’s choice of high school is going to have much impact on their acceptances to highly ranked universities. It is true that a higher percentage of students from top private high schools get accepted to Ivy League universities, but this is probably because of the type of students who attend top private high schools.

The one advantage that I can see of attending a high pressure highly ranked private high school is that this might give a student some sense of what it is like to attend a high pressure highly ranked university. They might decide that they just do not want to do it, and aim for a university which might be less stressful.

46

Every single year at top boarding schools, parents are dismayed to see students get into Ivy League schools who were NOT considered the tippy top students in the class.
Yes, it is harder to be one of the top 10 percent at a school like Andover. But if you are wealthy enough, connected enough (legacy?), a super-star athlete, or have some other amazing hook or international awards, it doesn’t matter that you are not at the top of the heap at a school like Andover. Your chances of admission are higher. That can be unsettling for students who worked really hard to have top test scores and GPA at a competitive, high-pressure school like PA, only to see “lesser” students admitted. Colleges know that Andover kids can handle academic rigor… PA applicants have to offer something else.

47

The Ivies have single digits admission rates, and many other top rated/highly popular schools aren’t far behind. Make sure your son understands how competitive admissions are. He has to actually be accepted before he can choose, and acceptance is far from guaranteed.

48

There is also option #3, your student attends their local public school ( or another private school) where they stay at the top of their class and do really well in a number of things. They then get accepted to an Ivy. There are many schools which are far easier than PA that send a lot of kids to top schools. People have different opinions as to what a top school is.
These days with single-digit acceptance rates in many places, a student has to be outstanding regardless of where they attend high school. I have seen very few kids accepted at Ivies unless Div I athlete or URM. Even legacy is pretty limited. Famous/political parents are also still getting in. Still, many schools send a handful of kids every year ( even small BS’s). Every BS we looked at ( about 10) had kids going to Ivy league schools. The rates were about 10-30% depending on the BS. ( I am also including MIT and Caltech in the numbers but I would NOT include Bowdoin). That to me is a strong second-tier and most BS kids land in those LACs ( and even in stronger ones like Amherst and Williams). This is pretty common given many BS students have a solid preparation and many are full pay ( so their choices are different). IMO, is there really a difference between a college that accepts 5% and a college that accepts 15%?

49

One other thing to consider: would choosing different cost levels of private high school affect the college budget? If choosing a higher cost private school over a lower cost private school or a public school would significantly reduce the college budget, that may have a much bigger impact on the student’s choices than any educational, college counseling, or social differences between the schools.

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50

I know Andover well. My son was accepted for 9th grade entry, but in the end we decided to send him to a similar caliber school: Lawrenceville. My son graduated in 2018.

At first glance, the college matriculation stats are amazing. About 18 kids in my son’s graduating class at Lville matriculated to Princeton. Sounds good right? But then I later came to know that more than half of these kids had a solid hook: legacy, development, recruited athlete, URM. Once you take those kids out of the equation, that left only a handful who entered Princeton on merit. And you’re right, those kids were in the top 5% of the class.

So what is left for students in the middle of their class? As long as you don’t need financial aid, there are still plenty of colleges that will scoop him up. Mainly private expensive colleges like: NYU, UChicago, Vandy, Emory, etc. If your child is unfortunate enough to end up in the bottom 2 deciles, then he will still have some options, but they will be less selective private schools.

51

I just re-read your post. And see that you are an ivy league graduate. Since your son will be applying to college as a legacy, he will have an enormous advantage. As long as your ivy league degree is from the undergraduate college and not the graduate divisions.

If so then as long as your son can stay afloat (Top 50%), then he will do fine with your alma mater. Most ivies will take legacy kids from PA and other top prep schools. They have a limit though, so applying early is key. But he will need to apply ED, have decent test scores, no major disciplinary problems. The college admissions offices at a place like PA are well oiled machines.

However, if you feel like he will end up at the bottom of his class (last 2-3 deciles) then I would consider another option.

52

I also noticed that you posted in other threads that your son has executive function issues. If so please know that PA is a sink or swim environment. There is no hand-holding. If you have the extra cash, strongly suggest that you find a neuropsychologist who can do a comprehensive assessment. You’ll learn a lot about his strengths/weaknesses. And if he needs extra accomodations, they can be put into place before he starts grade 9. Kids with ADHD and other LDs need to have extra safety nets put into place, otherwise you may be finding yourself in a situation where he is just seen as the ‘lazy kid’.

53

Just want to say too that it’s hard to predict how a student will fair in a competitive high school setting. In some kids it brings out the best in them. In others it can be soul crushing. Such an individual decision.

And just want to comment on the legacy hook to reinforce what was already mentioned- it’s only a hook if used in ED.

54

Yep, this definitely could be the best path for some/many (as an aside, it’s also why I’m not really a fan of the IB curriculum).

IMO, the most important thing is nurturing the confidence and drive/inquisitiveness/motivation of a kid (really, anyone) (though there are definitely advantages to an elite HS/college/grad program as well), and I would think you and he would be a better judge of what type of environment he would thrive in than some strangers who don’t know your kid.

55

One important part of this analysis is OP’s S’s other options. Is there a good public school near you? A good private day school? How many of the kids from these schools get into top colleges that are of interest to OP? Did they have a hook? What was it?

My kid attended a public magnet of sorts in NYC and then went on to a top college. One thing that astonished my kid was how many of the white MC/UMC kids who had attended public suburban high schools were athletes. (They were not really extraordinary athletes because those kids tend to go to schools that give athletic scholarships.) So, I disagree with those who think that going to an easier high school where it’s easier to end up at the top of the class will in and of itself make it easier for OP’s kid to get into a top college. Indeed, if it is a above average but not outstanding public high school then ending up in the top 10% of the class really isn’t that helpful. It’s likely you’re going to have to be in the top 5 people in the class AND have something else going for you—you’re a recruited athlete, legacy or URM, you have an outstanding talent in some field which is well documented; you’ve done some truly amazing community service, preferably organizing it; you own and operate a small business which generates impressive profits; you’ve placed in a national competition, you’ve done serious scientific research, etc. The list is endless.

If there’s a day school in the neighborhood, what colleges do its grads attend? Again, among those who got into top colleges, how many were hooked? What were the hooks ? It’s entirely possible that just as many were legacies, URMs, recruited athletes, First Generation applicants, etc.

And what is OPs kid like? It was a long time ago, but my kid got into a top school in large part because of (non-sport) ECs. My kid didn’t really seek them out;; they were readily available. And, given my kid’s personality, I very much doubt that my kid would have been out there creating a unique EC out of whole cloth.

There are cases in which BS really can help. My kid’'s first year college roommate excelled at a prep sport and was a recruited athlete. Kid was very good at the sport; it’s one that simply isn’t offered by a heck of a lot of public schools or even day schools. So, in that case, attending a BS really helped with college admissions because the BS had the facilities and the coach to develop kid’s skills in that area.

I don’t think attending a top BS hurts non-hooked kids that much–a little maybe, but not much. I think the problem is that a LOT of parents shell out the money for a top BS thinking doing so is going to HELP a lot. It doesn’t and when it doesn’t they are bitter and disappointed.

56

The bottom quintile at ANY school, including Andover, is NOT the place to be.

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@jonri: It took a while but I figured out that MC meant “middle-class”. Makes some sense.
I think we all know that the group that is least-well represented at Ivies/equivalents
(given their stats) is the unhooked average excellent kid.

58

If you went to an Ivy, then your kid has a better chance but there is no guarantee. Legacy makes a difference, especially at a school with so many other legacies. If you are not a legacy you have to have something damn special about you to get into an ivy beside grades and scores, especially from a school like PA or any elite private school for that matter, when you are competing with students who have connections, legacy status or some other hook. However, if your dc is a great student he will get into an excellent college regardless of if it’s an ivy or not.

59

The OP is getting great advice.

While ALL elite prep schools advertise excellent college admissions stats, as @sgopal2 states, once you drill down into who is actually admitted and filter out the recruited athletes, legacies, URMs and development cases, there is very little room for the unhooked.

More specifically, the athletes tend to be in sports where scholarships are less important (i.e. lacrosse, water polo, squash, etc), the legacies are also meaningful donors (legacies who don’t give have to be famous), URMs are already preselected for their admitability, and the development cases are obvious (and increasingly international).

The college counsellors at schools like PA are extremely experienced and know that the number of kids that can be admitted to each Ivy is limited, so their advice for the unhooked senior will be biased. Heaven forbid an unhooked applicant gets in over a prized development case or URM.
Where the elite private school’s college counseling is the most effective is getting students into the schools that are just one or two tiers below the Ivies/Stanford. Looking at the matriculation lists many have provided, with 20%-40% of elite private school graduates going to Ivies/Stanford, the next 20%-40% seem to go to great universities like Duke/Northwestern/Vanderbilt/etc, or top LACs like Williams/Amherst/Swarthmore/etc. While schools in these “lower tiers” are also extremely difficult to get into, these are the primary beneficiaries of the increased competition at the Ivies that we have seen over the last several decades.

So, like many of the posters to this thread, I would agree that PA is a great school for many legitimate reasons, yet to choose it primarily for an ivy league admissions advantage might be ultimately disappointing.

If the goal of an Ivy is unshakeable, and you are an undergraduate legacy, you should start (if you haven’t) giving money now. Legacies who don’t give do not get much of a boost. While large donations will only help at your alma mater, most Ivies like to see a history of giving, not just when your kid is applying.

On a separate note, from the perspective of someone who is an alumni interviewer for an Ivy, in our region (not east coast), unhooked private school applicants are not getting in to the same degree unhooked public school kids are getting in. This is a relatively recent phenomenon, but seems to be a trend as all schools try to be more diverse and inclusive. Low income, first gen and students from remote locations are also becoming hooks.

60

How many times have you heard any parent on CC saying they expect their kid to be in the bottom half of their high school class? Zero, once? Everyone thinks their kids who are top % will fly through boarding school and then on to whatever dream school is on the horizon. Sorry to be doubtful but I just think it’s really hard to be at the top of a top BS.
We chose our oldest kids BS based on fit. That included that kid loved learning and going deep but didn’t want to be in a cut-throat environment where grades mattered more than learning. We chose accordingly. Not easy. But it has worked out so far. ( Kid was 99% SSAT no practicing and top scores in everything so this is a kid who would logically be in the top tier at any school). We chose for balance and fit. Kid still has had to work HARD in school to excel. BS kids are outstanding ( particularly a handful). Many of the international kids were a couple of years ahead in math and science so my kid fit right in. And kids from Asia have no issue memorizing and studying til 3 AM ( not my kids’ thing). And many are also outstanding personality-wise. It’s great. I am glad we did not chose the more competitive option( it wasn’t PA).

@PurpleTitan Totally agree, high school is about nurturing the confidence and inquisitiveness of a kid. A balanced kid who knows themselves can do great things.

IMHO, I think a kid has to be in the very top of any class, be fairly unique and also be outstanding in some regard and then they have a DECENT chance at an Ivy league. ( I’d never let my kids apply to any of our alma maters, 2 of which are Ivies). They need to make their own way in the world. They know this. There are so many great colleges, I don’t think there will be an issue for them.

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