Will I get into Barnard?

<p>GPA: 3.82
Class Rank:13 of 203
ACT: 25
I have not taken the SAT, and have no plans to take it, because all the schools I am applying to do not require it. </p>

<p>Extra Activities
National Honor Society
Key Club
President of Science Olympiad(9th grade)
Academic Challenge(10th grade)
Environmental Club
PLEASE (wetlands service project)
Marching Band
Jazz Band
Funk Band</p>

<p>Classes:
8th
Algebra 1</p>

<p>9th
Integrated Science
French 1
English 9
Health
World History
OGT prep
Band
Computer
Geometry
gym </p>

<p>10th
Biology 1
Chemistry 1
Concert Band
Symphonic Band
French 2
Algebra 2
Honors English 10</p>

<p>11th
Chemistry 2
Biology 2
Honors English 11
Symphonic Band
French 3
concert Band
Geography
Psychology
European History</p>

<p>12th
AP English
AP Calculus
Statistics
Symphonic Band
Jazz/Funk Band
Steel Drum Band
Poetry
Physics</p>

<p>With that ACT score, combined with no stand-out ECs, I seriously doubt it. I’m sorry.</p>

<p>dru: first, nobody here really can tell you whether or not you will get in. We won’t read your essays, and we don’t know what the admissions committee is seeking. What we do know is that you will not be admitted if you do not apply, and that you of course (as should everyone applying to such a selective school) should have other schools that may be less selective which you feel would be a good “fit” for you. Best to you!</p>

<p>dru, post #2 is way, way off base. I just checked the common data set on Barnard’s web site – 7% of women enrolling at Barnard in fall, 2010 had ACT scores in the range of 18-23; 33% has scores in the range of 24-29. The median score range was 28-32, meaning that 25% of enrolling students had scores of 28 or below. Although no one on CC believes this, 100% of all student who enroll at a given college, including Barnard, were admitted first.</p>

<p>I do think that you would do well to retake the ACT if you can still schedule it. The particular breakdown of the composite score is probably also a factor.</p>

<p>Your GPA & class rank are quite competitive for Barnard, esp. if you posted your unweighted GPA. Your EC’s are fine – it’s obvious that you enjoy making music and that takes up a lot of your time. </p>

<p>The one piece of advice I have is that you have to apply to get in. Beyond that, it’s hard to say – when one part of your application is comparatively weak, like test scores, there’s not much you can do about it. Just focus on your strengths and try to make sure your personality & interests shows through on your app.</p>

<p>I’d note that post #2 comes from someone who is not a Barnard student and doesn’t have the slightest clue as to Barnard admissions. </p>

<p>churchmusicmom & I are just parents of Barnard alums and we don’t know about admissions either – but obviously if 7% of enrolled students have ACT’s at least 2 points lower than yours, then a 25 on the ACT isn’t fatal to your chances. It doesn’t help either, but please don’t let anyone tell you that your ACT score disqualifies you. It doesn’t.</p>

<p>I’m sort of hurt by this. I never said she was disqualified. I gave her my honest opinion, based on the fact that the middle 50 of enrolling students had ACT scores of 28-32. I did not say that a score of 25, by itself, would be “fatal.” I just think that a student would have to stand out fairly remarkably in another area to overcome it. I’d never encourage someone not to apply to a school that they care about. I just don’t want other people to be crushed the same way I was because everyone I spoke to was too considerate of my feelings to tell me the truth about my chances. </p>

<p>Drusilladraven, I’m sorry if I discouraged you at all. I understand that people are more than their standardized test scores, and if I implied than in any way, I’m deeply sorry.</p>

<p>Well, what was with the comment, “no stand out EC’s”? I don’t see anything wrong with the OP’s EC’s… it look to me like she has a very strong, consistent interest in music performance. Colleges like to see a sustained, strong interest. She’s in 3 different bands at once – that must take hours & hours of practice. Plus she also has an interest in environmental issues – so I don’t see why anyone would criticize the level of her EC’s. </p>

<p>I think unfortunately here on CC students get the idea that EC’s need to be pile on or that a person has to be president of a dozen clubs for it to count, and that just isn’t true. </p>

<p>If she wants to get into Barnard, she should apply. I think her chances are as good as anyone else’s. Of course her app would be stronger with a higher ACT score, but I think her grades & class rank are strong, and I notice that she’s taken a lot of math & science, including AP Calc + stats her senior year. That’s something that is a little atypical for Barnard applicants, and likely to be viewed positively by the ad com. </p>

<p>To the OP – here’s another suggestion. You can submit supplementary material with your application – Barnard say to do that only if is something that “represents a substantial amount of time, dedication, and energy.” See: [First-Year</a> Student Application Requirements | Barnard College](<a href=“http://barnard.edu/admissions/apply/application-requirements/first-year-student-application-requirements]First-Year”>http://barnard.edu/admissions/apply/application-requirements/first-year-student-application-requirements) If you are reasonably good with the instrument(s) you play, or have some performance you are particularly proud of, consider submitting a video or audio recording. Keep it short – highlights only. Its not like an audition tape, they aren’t going to have the music faculty review it – it’s just a way of showcasing your talent a little bit and adding some oomph to your application.</p>

<p>You have to wonder what kind of school she comes from that let’s her go from Algebra 2 in her sophomore year to AP Calc in senior…</p>

<p>Yeah, the academic rigor of the classes is another problem. I suppose you’re right about the band thing - it is impressive, especially to someone like me who doesn’t even play an instrument - but I don’t know if it’s impressive enough to make up for the academics being a bit weak and the ACT more so. That’s all I was trying to say.</p>

<p>The most important factor re academic rigor is whether the most rigorous course load available at the applicant’s school has been taken. If that is all that was offered, then she’s done all she could do.</p>

<p>This is another reason why NONE of us here can say with any sort of authority, “yes, I think you will get in” or “no, I don’t think so.” And really, I wish people would not ask!</p>

<p>Some could certainly suggest things that people could do to perhaps strengthen their application, and Calmom has, as always, offered some great suggestions along those lines.</p>

<p>Treehugga, my school has the same system as the OP’s - the track is generally Algebra 1 (often taken in middle school) -> Geometry/Finite Math -> Algebra 2 -> Math Analysis or Trig/Algebra 3 -> Calculus or Statistics. I don’t think it’s that unusual for a high school.</p>

<p>In regards to dru, trust me, the CC posters DO NOT reflect the average Barnard applicant. On the Barnard booklet it says the average SAT/ACT score for admitted students is 2040/30 and the average GPA is 3.8, which means several students with lower scores than those were accepted. I’m only a prospie myself but I’ve talked to quite a few admissions officers and current students and I’ve seen a huge variety of scores that ranges from 1800/26-27 to 2300+/34+. Also note that Barnard (like most liberal arts schools) doesn’t place nearly as much emphasis on test scores as it does on your GPA, so if that 3.85 is UW then that’s a very competitive GPA for Barnard’s standards.</p>

<p>But numbers aside, the best and worst thing about a school like Barnard’s admission process is that there’s no guaranteeing that you’ll get in no matter how high your scores are, but there’s no guaranteeing that you WON’T get in, either. It all depends on what kinds of students they’re looking for in that particular year. If you write excellent essays and emphasize your involvement, passion, and leadership in your school then I’m sure you have a chance. Just remember that the only way you’ll have a 0% chance of getting in is if you don’t apply at all.</p>

<p>But again, I’m only a prospie, so take this with a grain of salt. However, I cannot stress enough that CC does not reflect the average applicant, and if you want to see the actual scores of Barnard students then their website and pamphlet are far more reliable sources.</p>

<p>Francis, my daughter got into Barnard during one of their tougher years for admissions with an ACT score below their median and with academics that I am sure you would consider to be very weak. (My d. had no math at all beyond algebra 2 her sophomore year, and a 23 subscore on the ACT math – how’s that for “weak”?).</p>

<p>And no, churchmusicmom, my daughter did not take the “most rigorous” academic path offered by her school… not even close. She took high-rigor (AP) classes when she was able to fit them in, bypassed them when they didn’t fit. In my daughter’s case, her desire to spend a semester abroad threw her course planning off track, in drusilla’s case, it’s obviously band.</p>

<p>The problem with CC advice as to college admissions is that most view the process as a linear contest, where the ones who are at the head of the pack have the best chance of admissions. That results in adcoms being flooded with applications that all look alike. One is indistinguishable from the other – the ad com can’t get a sense of the person from looking at their transcript, the test scores are so uniformly high that they don’t tell much of a story either —so those kids get into the type of schools that are more numbers based in admissions, and some (not all) will get into colleges like Barnard… but the ad com that votes to admit them won’t remember them a day later. </p>

<p>Drusilla’s coming in with a different pattern, so it stands out. Contrary to the view of a linear race, college admissions is much more like selecting the cast for a movie – sure they need handsome and photogenic actors to play the romantic leads, but they are looking for something different when they fill out the rest of the cast. </p>

<p>We don’t know why drusilla could skip a year of math and go into AP Calc – but that might be a good story in itself. Maybe she self-studied and passed a math aptitude test given at her school, just because math is her thing. </p>

<p>College ad coms like “well-lopsided” candidates in part because they stand out. If drusilla knows how to accentuate her strengths and passions, she can have the kind of college application package that will stand out and be remembered by the admissions staff whether or not they decide to admit her. </p>

<p>I do think that her chance of admission would be better RD than ED – and she needs to pull an A fall semester in AP Calc. At least, if I were the ad com, with that gap between algebra 2 & calc, I’d be very curious to see how she does. </p>

<p>Again – she certainly should look at Barnard as a “reach” – but Barnard was a reach for my d. too. An applicant like drusilla needs to showcase her strengths, let her g.c. explain weaknesses if possible. If drusilla is a particularly strong musician – if the truth is that she is in all those band classes because the band instructors are dying to have her – then she might do well to also get a supplemental letter of recommendation from a teacher saying how amazing she is. Or, one of her other LOR writers can mention it – my daughter’s English teacher wrote about seeing my d. at dance performances, and it got the message across. </p>

<p>This is all ancient history for me, at this point, but people made the same type of comments to my d. My d. was told by a so-called “expert” in college admissions that Barnard would never even look at her with her test scores, and we were certainly aware that my d’s lack of higher math was a glaring weakness. But colleges like Barnard don’t make decisions based on the numbers – they make their decisions based on the individual. They aren’t trying to build a class of students who are all very good at being the same; they are looking for diversity. If drusilla is interesting enough to appeal to them, and seems to offer something that other candidates don’t, then they will accept her; if not, they’ll pass.</p>

<p>You’re right, Calmom, I do consider that to be weak. I also consider my 580 math score to be very weak. I resent the implication that I’m considering myself somehow superior to dru or your daughter, because it’s simply not the case. I can only speak from my experience and am therefore limited in what advice I can provide, but the college process was very, very difficult for me. I didn’t listen to the little voice inside my head that told me I just wasn’t good enough, and I got burned. Your daughter’s story is very inspiring, but it is purely anecdotal. Sadly, I honestly believe that for every happy ending like your daughter’s, there are a hundred depressing ones like mine.</p>

<p>francis, that doesn’t qualify you to go around telling other applicants that they aren’t going to get into colleges that you never applied to. As you didn’t apply to Barnard, you wouldn’t know one way or another whether you would have been accepted. You chose to apply to Ivies with your stats – like Columbia & Harvard – rather than focusing on colleges with more holistic acceptance standards. You’ve assumed that your “depressing” admission results are because the college admissions process is so competitive, but from the limited info available on CC, it looks to me like you made the mistake of targeting colleges that were unrealistic for your stats. </p>

<p>Drusilla has only one post on CC, and already I can answer the question, “what is special about drusilla? What does she have to offer colleges that other applicants don’t?” To me that’s an excellent start. </p>

<p>I also see that drusilla’s ACT is weak, but not below the minimum that Barnard will consider, and offset by a strong GPA and class rank. So drusilla is clearly in the running. I can not think of any reason why she shouldn’t apply. Nothing else in her record would count against her. It’s true that she obviously missed some APs in order to make room for band, but that’s what happens when a student has a passion and needs to schedule around it. If she pulls an A in Calculus first semester, no one is going to care that she didn’t take pre-calc last year. </p>

<p>I am also guessing that drusilla’s high school might be special in a way - that school certainly has a lot of opportunities for band. I have a reasonably good hunch that there’s enough “special” about that high school to also play a favorable role in admissions.</p>

<p>I didn’t tell her she wouldn’t get in. And honestly, I think it’s a realistic comparison because I did meet the minimum standards for admission to those schools - top 10% of my class, a composite SAT score in the middle 50%, 7 APs, several academic awards, and a four-year commitment to debate. I know now that I was delusional, but when I asked my guidance counselor point-blank if she thought I had a prayer of being admitted, she said “sure, everything matches up.” Obviously, she had no idea what she was talking about, but since I navigated the entire process on my own, what the hell was I supposed to think?</p>

<p>Perhaps my original post was too harsh, but I never said she wasn’t in the running. I’m sorry everything I say seems to offend you. I sort of thought we had a good rapport going after the last epic discussion, but I guess not. I wish I had applied to Barnard as a senior, but I didn’t. I can’t change the past, and I don’t want other people to end up trapped like me. I think it’s fine if dru applies to Barnard, as long as she acknowledges that it’s a reach for her, as you’ve said.</p>

<p>You seem like a good applicant. I mean, your ACT score is below their middle 50%, but I know people who have gotten into Barnard with that score (and scores lower for that matter). The school is going to look at the whole you, not just your ACT score, so don’t stress :slight_smile: Your courseload and class ranking seem pretty impressive. Obviously, no one can tell you for sure, but you definitely have a chance.</p>

<p>Francis, I’m sorry, but your comments on here are so rude…I know the OP is asking for an opinion on her admissions status, but you have no right to make generalized judgements about her ECs or the rigor of her courseload without having a full understanding of the academic institution that she attends (the admissions counselors, on the other hand, will be familiar with the school she comes from). Yes, her ACT score is below the middle 50%, but you do not need to act like that is the end of the world when Barnard is a liberal arts college that does not weight your standardized test scores as the end all be all. In fact, their admissions counselors read the essay before they look ay anything else. You don’t need to add to the OP’s stress by making her feel inferior with judgements you have very little backing for.</p>

<p>Oh my God. Okay. </p>

<p>1) I’ve already apologized and stated that I believe my original judgement of dru’s chances was too harsh.
2) I’m not acting like it’s the end of the world. I’m just saying that it’s something that she should take into consideration when applying to Barnard and other colleges because, as I’ve said, I don’t want her to come out of the admissions process completely demoralized! I’m trying to be helpful and I feel like I’m being perceived as some kind of sadist.
3) Why did the OP post her ECs and her classes if she didn’t want them to be judged?! I recognize that all high schools are different, and we don’t know the particulars of dru’s situation. Maybe there’s a limit on the number of APs one can take, or those are the only two APs available. Who knows? If either of those situations are the case, then I rescind my earlier statements regarding the academic rigor of her courseload.
4) I recognize that Barnard is a liberal arts college. It is also a HIGHLY SELECTIVE liberal arts college. I NEVER SAID SHE DIDN’T HAVE A CHANCE, and I wasn’t trying to make her feel inferior. </p>

<p>I apologize for the capslock, but I’m a little tired of reiterating the same points again and again and being told that I have no right to make judgments about an individual who is asking to be judged.</p>

<p>Francis, the reason that you end up feeling frustrated and having to post in all caps is that you keep on posting the same thing over and over again and seem oblivious to the points others make. </p>

<p>You didn’t really “apologize” – you have posted a series of “sorry, but” comments – that’s not a sincere apology, that’s just a preface to an excuse. That seems to be a pattern with many of your posts – you say something, and you spend a lot of time denying that you ever said it or trying to claim you meant something else, and continuing to argue/press your point with others. Maybe that’s a habit you picked up during your 4 years of high school debate – I supposed it works well in that context – but it’s not really a constructive way to have a dialogue. </p>

<p>You wrote:

The problem is that you are not in a position to “judge” them – you aren’t a Barnard applicant or student, you have no experience whatsoever with Barnard admissions – and your opinion seems way off base in any case. You made a pretty strong statement which was dead wrong and phrased in a demeaning way. </p>

<p>I’m not interested in debating with you. This thread is not about you – it is about drusilla’s question, and anyone else who comes along with a somewhat similar profile who may have a similar question. It doesn’t help those prospective Barnard applicants when there are CC’ers posting false or misleading information.</p>

<p>I recognize that this thread is not about me. I wasn’t trying to make it about me. I was trying to help, and I don’t think the information I posted was false or misleading. I do sincerely apologize if any of my statements came off as demeaning or rude. There is no “but” attached to that statement. I sincerely apologize. That is all.</p>

<p>Honestly, I think the OP shoudl realize that she has a chance, maybe not the greatest chance, but its possible. I’m doing Barnard ED with 95 gpa, 2300 SAT, national/internationl EC’s, and I know there’s no guarenteeing acceptance. No one is counted out, but no one is automatically in either.</p>

<p>@treehugga</p>

<p>I hope we both recieve admission. You seem like such a cool person. I’d love to meet you.</p>

<p>P.S. I hope this didn’t just sound creepy. =.=</p>