Is it somehow a faux pas to ask how many clarinet/oboe/tuba/bass/flute/horn players a school is looking for in a given year? If not, who is the best person to direct that question to - orchestra director, administrator for the music program, admissions department?
Thanks!
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I would imagine the head of the music department would have that metric. When my younger kid had sample lessons, it was a question that was asked. Kid was not a music major and wanted to make sure there would be an orchestral spot.
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My D also checked that non-majors would be welcome in the orchestra at colleges she considered.
Yes…mine did too. It was THE hardest criteria for my kid to fulfill. She is a high level player on an “endangered” instrument…but most orchestras only have two. The ace in the hole for my kid…was she played both oboe and English horn, and owned both instruments. But it didn’t help with admissions…at all. However the orchestra director was thrilled she could choose instrumentation that included the English Horn for four years (school didn’t own one).
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A few thoughts on this…
Not a faux pas to ask, I would probably direct the question to music department administrators.
At some programs, the total number of students in a specific studio is “fuzzy”. Meaning it is up to the particular professor(s) in that studio to determine the number and thus the total might vary a bit from year to year. Bottom line, if an absolute top talent appears and a teacher wants that student, they would be accepted even if it makes the studio “bigger than usual”. And some programs have a hard cut off.
Also at some programs the number of openings in a studio might be divided between undergraduate and graduate students…again with an unclear delineation.
So you may get a vague answer.
Everyone is different, but we opted to not pay much attention to number of openings, as the odds look so daunting. Rather, my kid focused on choosing schools/conservatories where his playing matched well with the studio level. He was able to determine this somewhat from summer programs, master classes, sample lessons and input from his private teacher. From there he applied to some safety, match and reach programs from a music and merit standpoint.
Not everyone has the opportunity to have high school experiences to guide program selection. And as everyone applying knows…it is a very challenging and somewhat nebulous process.
Another possible way to get an idea of number of potential openings and perhaps more importantly the level of playing is to watch senior recital videos for students on your kid’s instrument at a particular program.
Note that my experience is with classical instrumentalists only… and with BMP as the goal. Voice performance and jazz may be quite different.
Best of luck on your journey!
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My impression has always been that this question (number of specific instruments needed) may be relevant for BM programs but not really relevant for BA programs, whether a music major or not.
For instance, your musical accomplishments show a lot more about you than just performance talent. Some submit a music supplement but never play on campus! Often audtions are in the fall of freshman year, and of course repeat. So there are a lot of moving parts at schools that don’t have a BM program.
Vocal major experience - every school basically told us about 10% of live auditions would be accepted. One school did say in a student/parent meeting with maybe 20 kids - there are alot of sopranos here and in this room only 1 or 2 are going to get an offer. I suspect same for instruments. If you are soprano competition tough. If you are a bass you are going to get an offer from every school.
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I had 2 kids go through vocal auditions, do a lot of regional music through high school (instrumental and vocal), I’ve done a little volunteer consulting, so we know lots of people who’ve been through the process and we’ve seen some weird things. I do think you can ask and some teachers will be very forthcoming with info if you can get in for a sample lesson or even in an email dialog. And we’ve gotten directly conflicting answers from programs when asking a teacher directly vs. their music admissions office. Which can also give you some different info. I do suspect departments in general like being vague. I wish they’d publish average and range of financial offers (need vs. merit based) and average number accepted in each area vs. number that apply. But that would probably result in less applications for them which doesn’t serve them well, right? I should also say, our experience is more leaning toward colleges/universities with school of music/conservatory rather than stand alone conservatories.
But I do think schools are looking at a lot of things before making offers - talent, fit, general institutional needs, how much funding they have available, academics, program needs, liklihood of attendance, etc. They have a budget and can’t necessarily well fund every talented student. Like my first kid was a really quirky applicant. He was bounced from safer options and was offered a spot at an extremely competitive program. He had a 90 minute sample lesson at a super competitive program and at the end the teacher asked him where else he was applying and in a round about way said I would love to work with you, but we can’t fund you well here, think of us for grad school. In most cases, you’ll never find out why you are not getting an offer. My soprano was accepted to 6 of 7 programs she auditioned at w/good merit. But I think a big part of that was we made a good list of schools where she would be a fit and had the ability to do significant merit for vocal students.
There is one program that we know dozens of people have gone through admissions for. Their music admissions/merit money is ALL over the boards and it’s clear even to local music teachers I’ve talked to that they weigh their institutional priorities pretty heavily and music admissions there is just ALL over the place. That doesn’t mean they don’t have a great program and talented musicians and you can’t have a great experience there. But at this point, for those from the closest metros, I wouldn’t even recommend applying (their application process is tedious) unless you had a positive sample lesson/faculty contact if you’re hoping for merit. There is another University based program that is popular for kids out of our metro and every student I know who has been admitted except one attended an expensive prep school. Musical levels mixed. And to be clear when I say mixed, all these kids are talented and qualified to go on in music. I just mean maybe at the middle of auditioned regional programs instead of at the top. And I’ve seen top kids music kids rejected. Maybe they’re weighing academics heavier. My cynical side suspects more of those prep school students will be able to pay more and may need/want less merit. We’ve found digging for senior recitals at different program super interesting. Not everyone is performing at the same level at the same programs.
I’m most exposed to popular paths where programs likely have a range of plenty of qualfied applicants to chose from. I suspect the process may be very different if you’re talking about harp, upbright bass, oboe, etc. But definitely ask the questions! I think engaging with staff and faculty and current students can be very telling regardless of the answers you get.
Also if you’re coming in as a non-major vs a major is a big difference. Like if you’re just hoping to participate in ensembles, I’d maybe try and ask the music dept and an ensemble director. If you’re hoping to be in a studio for private lessons, I’d probably try and communicate directly with a member of faculty if possible and get a sample lesson.
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@bass2022 can you clarify what kinds of schools you are referring to? Conservatory or school of music for BM degree with audition, or a college/university music department that offers a more liberal arts-based BA? Or both?
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From our very limited experiences with string instrument:
University orchestra formed with non-music major students - the current members and the orchestra director know which current members are graduating or leaving (study abroad, internship, etc.) so any of them can provide a close guess.
Conservatories and BMus performance major in music schools within universities - the current students know the sizes of the professors’ studios so they can give a close guess. However, there’s nothing wrong with directly asking the professors. They may not specify a number but can give a good estimate.
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One other strategy if you get a sample lesson is to have your kid ask: would I be a good fit for your studio? Teachers typically have a heart and would give your kid an honest assessment…yes, but I have little to no room. Or, you would be a great fit and should definitely apply. Or, anything in between.
I do agree with @anotheroboemom up thread that the numbers are like tea leaves…vague, daunting and often conflicting. A focus on fit and relationships with teachers/programs may get you the best information and results.
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@compmom I was thinking primarily of BM programs and LACs with music majors.
Thank you!
Thank you @KaylaMidwest