<p>I am reading as a mother of a son interested in architecture and I think the person who DA-Mad-Cow cited is correct. I think those architects who are able to embrace “green technology and sustanability” in their design will be the desired group when older building are torn down to be replaced with more efficient, environmentally responsible designs in the future. I also can’t imagine someone going to the trouble to become an architect to then plan on being a construction or real estate manager. Get a degree in a construction area and an MBA or management degree and for real estate go for a finance degree and specialize in real estate investing. </p>
<p>Certainly everyone has to think to the future of what they would do with their degree in any field and the answer is always the same: diversify. Get additional training in related areas to make yourself more marketable.</p>
<p>wow… it’s scary that architects arent making that much money, but i know they did alot of studying in college. im still a high school student and i want to becoming an architect, but im now having second thoughts cause it seems like an unreliable job. my mom told me to take civil engineering first in college then once i get a job, head back in for the architecture major cause that i way i know ill always have jobs as a civil engineer. but thats soooo much work =.=! yea, thats why i applied for architectural engineering instead cause its a combo. but i really really wanna be an architect. i mean im an artist, and i tend to think architects are also artists, just a more pratical artist. but yea lol. hope the market gets better for architects, kinda dont wanna starve on the streets when i grow up…</p>
<p>Right now we all have to face the reality that we are in a depressed real estate/building market. It really does not matter if you are an architect, mechanical engineer, developer, construction manager, or structural engineer. It is brutal out there. Most civil engineers that I know are involved with new developments, and projects with state and local authorities, and they are suffering. Only the civil engineers involved with major highway and infrastructure projects have been able to weather the storm.</p>
<p>The cyclical nature of the building industry is one of the hardest things to deal with in this profession. If you are now entering school you will be fine, by the time you get out the economy will have recovered. However, do not forget what you are seeing now, because it will come again. You need to make yourself as valuable as you can while times are good so you can survive the next one. </p>
<p>So what makes you valuable? The ability to either keep or bring in new clients. Clients are the life blood of an organization. So if you are a talented designer whose work can win competitions or attract new clients you are in good shape. If you are a project manager who has the primary relationship with an important client that provides ongoing work, you are safe (However, if your client is a retail developer who has stopped building, you are in trouble). If you are a skilled project architect who is great at developing in-house drawings but is not involved with the client, you should be concerned. </p>
<p>We will get through this, but we are going to lose a lot of valuable people in our industry, and I particularly worry about losing an entire generation of young graduates who will find other ways of making a living.</p>
<p>Until the AIA starts advocating more for the profession, it’s only going to get worse. Until the AIA really starts to raise the consciousness of the profession to raise wages, it’s only going to get worse. Until the AIA STOPS calling graduates “interns” it’s only going to get worse. Really. Look at what the Lawyers did and follow that model. Then, and only then, will our services be seen as really valuable.</p>
<p>Ha! The AIA is as profoundly useless to the profession as it is to the public. Consider that an extremely elemental, base-line expectation such as protecting the word “Architect” remains completely beyond them. The very title of the profession has been co-opted and largely subsumed by the IT field (Systems Architect, Software Architect, Enterprise Architect, etc etc). Now compare that with Realtor® which no one dares touch. Not to mention attorneys, physicians, etc. Come to think of it, most Realtors® make more money too, and generally don’t have any student loans to pay off ;)</p>
<p>Ok, I don’t want to come off as some sort of an AIA fan, but are you two involved at all with the AIA? Have you seen what they are doing?</p>
<p>Point 1; raising wages. How would the AIA do that? We are under justice department oversight for trying to allegedly fix fees. This came about when the AIA used to publish recommended fee guidelines. Now anything that implies a recommended fee range, or a limit to competition among architects will get the institute into hot water and we risk having it closed down. We face the realities of a competitive global marketplace which no professional association can overcome. Without the ability to raise fees there will not be significantly higher salaries in the profession.</p>
<p>Point 2; the AIA is useless to the profession. Yes, I have to admit it sticks to my craw to hear a golf course designer of software guy call himself an architect, but there are bigger battles being fought. My wife travels to the state capitol every month to talk with legislators on issues which can have a serious impact on the profession. Right now the engineers through their association are trying to pas legislation that would allow them to design buildings without an architect involved. This has been a nasty drawn out battle that has been going on for five years. The state wants to put a sales tax on architecture fees, and that fight has been going on for a decade. They may not be able to do all you want, but without them the profession would be in much worse shape.</p>
<p>I used to think that the AIA was an elitist organization that did not do enough for the profession and complained to the president. Before I knew it I was the design awards chairman, commissioner of professional practice, executive committee member, and multiple other positions over the years. The AIA will only be as good as the efforts of the volunteers that do the bulk of the work. If you don’t like what is happening get involved!</p>
<p>I’m indifferent to the AIA. I’m sure they do some good work, some where and some of the time. I once joined years ago, as an Associate AIA, and when I didn’t renew, they sent out an issue of the Brooklyn newsletter with my name and address in it basically stating that I’m “delinquent” in my dues. NO, I was NOT delinquent. I decided NOT to renew. </p>
<p>Architects, whether in the AIA or not, must start raising their fees, regardless of what any useless organinzation thinks. We are not keeping up with the cost of living and especially, with other professions.</p>
<p>The other fact is that very few people will ever need an architect. Therefore, there isn’t much at stake for most of the public. Unlike if you need a lawyer…or a doctor…or a dentist… You don’t pay them $500 an hour, you lose the deal…you get sicker…or you can’t eat.</p>
<p>“Right now the engineers through their association are trying to pas legislation that would allow them to design buildings without an architect involved.”
I’m not an arch (my ds is studying arch). May I ask how ugly a building will look if only engineers are designing it? com’n everybody knows that engineers have not much creativity and/or a sense of aesthetics. Do engineers want to punish the residents of the city by creating an ugly environment of buildings?
" The state wants to put a sales tax on architecture fees " goverment is looking to get their hands in any where they can get any $$$…with the economy as it is, the revenues (taxes) goverment is collecting are way down. So it is not a surprise.
I"m assuming this is only happening in Texas since this comments were post by Rick…however, if one state starts doing something like that other states may do the same…</p>
<p>Even though many individuals may not need architects, large entities do. I work in government, and we hire lots and lots of consulting architects. Corporations will always need architects. Think about it - only the wealthy will ever need an architect. So, shouldn’t our fees reflect that???</p>
<p>Unfortunately we as a profession have very little leverage to increase fees. We constantly try to get our fees up, but there is so much competition out there that we have had limited success. Since you work in government let me ask you question. If you put out an RFP and get perhaps 20 responses, how much justifying would you have to do in your department to pick the most expensive firm? You might be able to justify picking the 4th or 5th lowest firm, but I suspect it is going to be a challenge to go any lower. Even in the most value based selection process, fees usually account for 50% of the score. Trust me, we have been fighting to get higher fees for many years, sometimes we succeed but it is a tough fight.</p>
<p>That’s where the AIA (or perhaps the schools of architecture) come into the picture. I was told that Occupational Therapy schools are so few because their professional organization limits the number of accredited programs in order to limit the number of graduates. Why? It assures they will be marketable with a decent wage (supply and demand). There are far more architects graduating than go on to become licensed professionals. Part of that is due to interest, finances, the exam, etc. But there are still more graduates than the market can absorb (even in a good economy).</p>
<p>Since not every project is the same, fees vary. But proportionately, they are all basically similar. The only time the dynamic may change is if it is on an accelerated schedule. And we recently did something like that for stimulus funded projects.</p>
<p>If an architect doesn’t like our fee schedule, they can skip us. However, we do end up re-hiring the same architects if their work and attitude is good. A number of them have multiple projects with us at the same time.</p>
<p>So, it can sort of be somewhat lucrative for an architectural firm to work for us; but as you are thinking there is limited or no flexibility in fees unless there is an unusual circumstance that dictates it out of necessity.</p>
<p>kj, the AIA and particularly the NCARB have been very effective in limiting the number of architectural graduates. the problem with the industry is it’s cyclical nature. Right now graduates are desperate to find a job, two years ago every graduate seemed to have multiple offers and we had to fight to get the good ones. I know it is hard to believe, but I think there will be too few graduates to meet the needs of the profession in the next ten years. A huge number of baby boomers are getting ready to retire and there are not enough new graduates to replace them. </p>
<p>“If an architect doesn’t like our fee schedule, they can skip us”- NYCHAD welcome to my world. This is why I can’t just raise fees and start paying my staff more.</p>
<p>Rick, I marvel at the stories you tell about difficulties in hiring. None of the firms I’ve ever worked with *ever *had trouble finding good people to hire. However, this might be because I have only worked in NY and DC and those are popular places to live–for architects, and others. I’m just speculating as to why but we have *never *had trouble hiring. And none of the firms has ever paid particularly well. </p>
<p>And a new grad cannot be licensed. You need to finish a period of organized, supervised, paid internship before you can complete your licensing exam. Minimum internship time is about 3 years…most take a year or two more to complete all the internship requirements.</p>
<p>Read the comments at that link. A number of them explain why the ‘survey’ should be taken with a grain of salt. For example, the median age of respondents is over 50, the vast majority have titles like ‘principal’ or ‘president’ etc etc.</p>