Course rigor is only one element of an applicant’s profile that AOs look at it but how much does one course matter?
I am a current high school student enrolled in the International Baccalaureate Diploma Programme. I am taking higher level (HL) biology, chemistry and psychology with standard level (sl) A&I math, English, and Spanish. All HL classes are two years and it just so happens that these 3 SLs are also two-year courses.
I am considering dropping chemistry down to an SL (I would not take it this year), switching English to an HL and then adding a 4th SL in sports, health and exercise sciences (SHES). Would not taking two years of chemistry hurt me as a pre-med/science major applicant to selective colleges or is it impressive enough that I already am doing IBDP, have taken 1 year of chemistry and will have taken 3 IB sciences if I make this switch?
This thread only pertains to the course rigor portion of this. I know it will be incredibly difficult to switch English classes halfway through the program (for non-IB people, they are very different courses) but I am strong in English and my administrators/teachers have all signed off on this plan and said that while they wouldn’t do it for just anyone, they think I can manage it. Additionally it is not important to me that I will have less chemistry background going into college. SL chem is a great introduction course and I did well in it (A in S1, B in S2) but I know that even if I take HL chem, I will have to take the same general chem classes in college (my school’s average IB HL Chem score last year was a 2.5, most colleges require a 6/7 to waive any required classes or transfer credits).
Many schools want you to take the most rigorous schedule available to you. You can look in each schools common data set to see how important rigor is to a school. Section C7.
You should not take a level of rigor beyond your capabilities.
Whether or not you get into a school - you’ll never know the reason. Find the right school, not top school - especially for pre med which can be done anywhere. Other things beyond rigor matter too - expense for example.
So yes, depending on the school, it could hurt. But so could a C or D or F.
I think that you should take the courses that make the most sense for you. Then attend a university that is okay with the courses that you take.
I also notice that your post is tagged with “premed”. There are hundreds of universities in the US that are very good for premed. Your in-state public university is probably one of them. If you live in a large state (eg, California, New York, …) then many of your in-state public universities will be very good for premed.
I do not think that you should let your guess, or our guess, of what a highly ranked university might want wrt admissions stop you from taking the courses that make sense for you.
I want to take a more rigorous English class, I feel like that while my current English class is IB, we don’t really do much and I need to be doing more consistent writing and analysis of literature to be be prepared for college. Scheduling wise I cannot take HL English unless I drop HL Chem.
In all likelihood, I will not get my IB Diploma if I take HL Chem. To be blunt, the class (because it is unfortunately poorly taught) does not prepare you for the exam well. I would expect to get a 2 in HL Chem (the school average score) which would mean I would need to manage at least 10 points split between bio and psychology. I can manage a 5 or 6 in psych but our school’s bios scores are also really low (again because the class is poorly taught) so that’s not a good thing to rely on.
I love science but want a year off chemistry before I have a very science-heavy schedule over the next 8+ years of my schooling if I want to become a doctor.
I think your second reason is really all you need to definitively support this choice. But the others are really good too.
I note as an aside that while many pre-med students major in a natural science, you don’t have to as long as you do the prereqs. Or you can do a minor in something else.
In turn that means you are not bound to sciences when stating interests in applying to college just because your intended track is pre-med. Indeed, you could apply stating you were interested in English, Bio, and Psych, in which case your HLs would just look obvious.
There is absolutely no need to go to a top college to get into med school. Med school admission does not depend on the college you go to. It depends on your experiences, GPA and MCAT.
I think your explanation above is an excellent reason not to take HL Chem.
Med school is extremely expensive. Focus on attending a college that is affordable where you will be able to get very high grades. Those factors are much more important in the long term.
I agree your reasons for not taking Chem HL are solid.
You should take Math SL AA if you want to be premed. HL Bio, English, and Psychology + Math AA SL, Chem SL, Spanish SL are a solid IBD program.
If you wish to take SHES SL, it may introduce further applied biology topics but wouldn’t on its own add to the perception of rigor. If you want to switch to something rigorous, take your 4th SL in Physics. Your EE should probably use Psychology AND Biology to reinforce your science profile.
Not taking 2 years of chemistry won’t necessarily hurt you as an applicant but be aware that for premeds, General Chemistry1&2 (equivalent to chem HL taught for 6 or 7 scorers) is a tough weedout course and Organic Chemistry wipes out the Gen chem survivors. So, if well taught, Chem HL would be a must have, but if your school’s average is 2, don’t bother. (For people not familiar with the IB grading, 4=C, 5= B, 6= A, 7= international distinction. And thus, 2 is failing.)
My daughter did full IB diploma with HLs in English, Math and Biology and SL in Econ, Chemistry and French. Her school doesn’t allow 4 HLs and requires English. She was strongly encouraged to take Math as she’d completed Calc BC as a sophomore leaving her with one slot for science. She chose Bio over Chem based on strength of teacher, and did not have an issue with the Chem sequence at a selective school with SL as her base.
Many medical schools often do not like seeing IB or AP credit used in substitution of pre-med courses like general chemistry, so courses like general chemistry have lots of pre-meds grade grubbing by repeating their IB 6-7 or AP 5 scores, even though many medical schools prefer to see substitution of more advanced non-organic/bio chemistry courses in this case.
General chemistry commonly has a recommended prerequisite of high school chemistry, so IB or AP level chemistry in high school is not technically necessary, but general chemistry courses are commonly graded competitively (“on a curve”) and are commonly filled with pre-meds competing for the limited number of A grades. A high school IB chemistry course that leads to 2 scores is probably not any better preparation than a regular high school chemistry course.
General biology has similar characteristics in terms of competition.