Will UC System Admit More OOS?

<p>given the budget considerations at the state government level. Past posts have indicated that to get into Cal Berkeley, for example, an OOS would need a total SAT of at least 2100-2200 or about 100 points higher than an in-state student. If the OOS does not need financial aid, he will bring in at-least 3X the amount of tuition to the school as an in-state acceptee. I would expect the admission standard to be equivalent for both in-state and OOS applicants, and the OOS enrollment to begin to be much higher than 8-9% of the total as soon as next year. Am I wrong in thinking this way?</p>

<p>It’s my understanding that, yes, there has been a deliberate effort to increase OOS admits to also increase revenue. As to Cal Berkeley in particular, to produce the current 2010-11 freshman class, acceptances were extended as follows:</p>

<p>In state - 73%
OOS - 19%
Int’l - 8%</p>

<p>See <a href=“http://students.berkeley.edu/admissions/freshmen.asp[/url]”>http://students.berkeley.edu/admissions/freshmen.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I have no idea if the OOS figure increased this admission cycle. I thought I read somewhere that the goal was 20%, so that would be the same/similar as last year. I don’t have any information on the OOS target for the 2012 admission cycle; however, in spite of the fiscal motivation, I’d be surprised to see much higher than 20% only because a key mission of state flagships is to serve their own.</p>

<p>Regarding admission standards, I’m no expert, but it’s my understanding that Cal receives far more top applicants than it can accept, regardless of origin. I don’t think they need to set different “in-state” and “OOS/International” acceptance standards. They admit holistically.</p>

<p>thx. TxArtemis. Any value to being a UC legacy? UCSB for one said they do not consider either that or family contributions to the school over the years. Some schools have a very strong legacy policy; others virtually none at all. Usually the LACs have strong legacy consideration, but the big public schools do not. I recall UMich saying having a sibling attending would not hurt, but might not really help much either unless it is a really close decision (and I suspect if the sibling has performed well at the school that might matter too).</p>

<p>Legacy isn’t a factor at the UCs.</p>

<p>As far as OOS - several UC administrators have said that yes - they’ll admit more OOS or at least it’s on the table. What the numbers will actually end up to be is hard to say.</p>

<p>OP, I should also add that the UC admissions websites (general and then school-specific) are very explicit and helpful in evaluating what you need to present. They don’t do Common App. They require you to submit your OOS grades in their own grade rubric (you have to get your GC to work this up for you). The most recent Common Data Set might also help you evaluate:</p>

<p><a href=“http://cds.berkeley.edu/pdfs/PDF%20wBOOKMARKS%2009-10.pdf[/url]”>http://cds.berkeley.edu/pdfs/PDF%20wBOOKMARKS%2009-10.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>For an OOS applicant, it’s all sort of “Greek.” But you can navigate it!</p>

<p>The admissions standards are pretty much the same, and have been for years. The relatively low % matriculation is due to cost. Someone with the stats for Cal can earn a free ride at most instate publics, and merit money at a lot of other colleges. Or, for the same price, one could attend a private college; perhaps less prestige, but more personal attention = value.</p>

<p>One factor that it can make it harder for OOS admits is that the public high schools in California are set up with the UCs in mind. They have certain requirements that most California high schools try to ensure that kids meet - including things like one year of art, which some other schools don’t require. Also, the UC approves specific honors classes for the California public schools, so the students know what classes are weighted. I could see some OOS schools would be disadvantaged because the UCs are not familiar with their classes. Also, there are ways to make your UC application stronger (taking a large number of UC-approved classes, or a large number of UC approved honors classes), which could be more difficult if you come from schools where it is not clear what would be considered a UC class or a UC honors class. </p>

<p>IMO I think a lot of people underestimate the impact that taking the right classes and enough of them makes in UC admissions.</p>

<p>I agree with Bluebayou though. It just isn’t worth it for OOSers most of the time.</p>

<p>It is actually easier for OOS and int’l students to get accepted to a UC campus than CA in-state students. Look at, for instance, the 2011 admission satistics from UCLA:</p>

<p>[Profile</a> of Admitted Freshmen, Fall 2011 - UCLA Undergraduate Admissions](<a href=“http://www.admissions.ucla.edu/Prospect/Adm_fr/Frosh_Prof11.htm]Profile”>http://www.admissions.ucla.edu/Prospect/Adm_fr/Frosh_Prof11.htm)
Int’l 41.55%
OOS 33.23%
In-state 22.66%</p>

<p>Why? Perhaps it is because the yield rates are expected to be lower for OOS and int’l students as compared to in-state students, and that’s why they are given more generous acceptances.</p>

<p>happyucdad, thanks for posting the UCLA stats. I did a double-take on the percentages as compared to the Cal Berkeley figures I posted above, until I figured out we’re not talking apples-to-apples. The UCLA figures show % acceptances within a group, i.e., out of 6,960 OOS apps, 33.23% were admitted as compared to the in-state pool, where only 22.66% of 28,271 California residents were admitted.</p>

<p>I grant crunching the numbers that way makes it sound like it is easier for OOS to get in; however, the UC admissions guideliness indicate OOS apps are held to the same standard as in-state apps. If that is the case, then because the UCs only accept a limited number of OOS students, more “less competitive” in-state candidates will be accepted than OOS candidates. </p>

<p>From the UCLA Admissions website:</p>

<p>Out-of-State Applicants
While, as a state funded public institution, UCLA gives priority to applicants who are California residents, we also admit hundreds of other students from all over the country. Since UCLA receives a large number of applications (from both in-state and out), admission is highly selective and far exceeds the University of California’s minimum eligibility requirements for out-of-state applicants.</p>

<p>Review Process
Out-of-state applicants go through the regular review processes along with applicants from California.</p>

<p>[Out-of-State</a> Applicants - UCLA Undergraduate Admissions](<a href=“http://www.admissions.ucla.edu/Prospect/OutofState.htm]Out-of-State”>http://www.admissions.ucla.edu/Prospect/OutofState.htm)</p>

<p>So…out of the entire applicant pool, the same UCLA profile stats reflect the following:</p>

<p>In state - 78.47%
OOS - 11.31%
Int’l - 9.03%
Withdrawn - 1.19%</p>

<p>I confess, numbers aren’t my strong point! What am I missing? If I’m an OOS applicant, I see my chances as 11.31% because I’m not competing against other OOS applicants, I’m competing against all applicants.</p>

<p>^^
be careful with analyzing gross statistics. (see Simpson’s Paradox, which any AP Stat student should have covered)</p>

<p>My point is that OOS students who apply to UCLA are likely to be much, much better candidates for admission on average than the instaters. OOS’ers who apply are likely compare statistically to instate students from suburban districts: wealthy, high test scores, lotsa AP courses, good EC’s, etc. If you compare the admission rates of instate HS with high API scores you’ll find much higher admission rates.</p>

<p>Instead of gross numbers, it’s more useful to parse the data on UC Statfinder. It will show that the numbers for instate and OOS are similar.</p>

<p>Thanks, bluebayou. I am a mom–when was AP invented?! I sure didn’t take any AP classes and managed to avoid stat in college.</p>

<p>Thanks so much for the tip on the [University</a> of California: StatFinder](<a href=“http://statfinder.ucop.edu/]University”>http://statfinder.ucop.edu/).</p>

<p>Hi TXA. I think you’re looking at the wrong set of statistics when analyzing the difficulty of getting in to a UC campus. I was once an int’l student, and the int’l student body in my entering class was only a few percentage (not more than 5%) out of the entire class. But that didn’t mean I only got a few percent chance in getting accepted. My college was not selective; in fact, it was rather easy for any interested int’l student to get in. Likewise, using 11.31% to represent the chance for an OOS student to get accepted into Berkeley’s entering class is misleading. It is also unfair to say that CA in-state students have a 78.47% chance of getting into Berkeley.</p>

<p>Hi Blubayou. Regardless of what some UC’s claim, I believe it is still relatively easier for OOS student to get into a UC campus. UC’s know that the yield rates are more uncertain with OOS students because of, among other things, financial reason (e.g., they can’t get Cal Grant)–that’s why they are given higher rates of acceptances. Also, there is a geographic diversity factor that allows some relatively lesser qualified OOS students to get into a highly competitive UC campus. My son’s CA high school, for example, always has a bunch of smart kids scoring very well in SAT (2100-2300 range) and taking many AP classes. Last year, according to his counselor, out of the 500+ student body, roughly 1/3 applied for at least one of the two top UC campuses, and only 12 got into either one or both of the two campuses. I don’t even want to do the number crunching here, as it could be a biased, non-random sample, but this can at least show that it is also very difficult, if not much harder, for a CA student to get into a good UC.</p>

<p>while i strongly disagree that los angeles and berkeley are the only “good” UCs (and find that often repeated refrain–in college confidential land–really ridiculous!!), i generally agree that it is probably easier for out-of-staters WHO DO NOT NEED FINANCIAL AID to get in since 2008ish due to budget. </p>

<p>i mean, is it really that hard to figure this out???</p>

<p>"while i strongly disagree that los angeles and berkeley are the only “good” UCs "</p>

<p>Which UC’s would be considered extremely good?</p>

<p>i don’t understand your question.</p>

<p>Happyucdad, It depends on the highschool. I know our high school had about 120+ kids accepted to UCLA and UCB(60+ each) out of a class of 600+. However, only 1/3 of these acceptances actually enrolled. I don’t have 2011 stastitics yet.</p>

<p>calimami, you said, “while i strongly disagree that los angeles and berkeley are the only “good” UCs (and find that often repeated refrain–in college confidential land–really ridiculous!!),”</p>

<p>And I was curious which other UC’s would be considered extremely good. You said you strongly disagree that los angleles and berkely are the only “good” UC’s. So which other ones are very good? I’m not trying to disagree, I want to know, as I am not from California, but my son might be interested in some of the UC’s. I doubt he’d get into the two you mentioned, so I’m interested in which other ones are great.</p>

<p>happyucdad:</p>

<p>I would agree that it has become more difficult for one cohort of Californians to get accepted into Cal and UCLA, but that is only one cohort of the total applicant pool. Looked at another way, when you think about enrolling more OOS the slots have to come from somewhere. But UC will still reserve ~33% of slots for Pell Grantees, a large % for those that have overcome adversity, and other special cases. As a result, it is not any harder for those students to gain admission. The ones that are now NOT accepted to Cal & UCLA are those likely at the bottom of the ELC group. For example, instead of Cal accepting the top 10-15% of Lowell HS in SF, they’ll cut it at 10% to save slots for the rich OOSers. So sure, for this cohort, it has become harder to gain admittance to the state flagships, but in the aggregate the change has minimal impact statewide. (I’m guessing this is also why UC went to wait lists, bcos of the unpredictable yield from OOS.)</p>

<p>Note, the Regents and Legislature don’t care about instate admission to Cal and UCLA bcos they need to fill up the dorms in Merced (to cover their financial investment), and they realize that few OOS’ers will pay $55k for Riverside.</p>

<p>there are SEVERAL. japanoko (?) provided a link that had at least 5 UCs on it (it was engineering-specific, granted). i would think that anybody who’s seriously considering UC as an option (resident or no) would do the basic research on the system. the info is readily available.</p>

<p>and since your son is not a california resident, his chances of getting a seat are looking pretty good (provided he has at least a 3.5 unweighted gpa and u can pay the full price of the ticket).</p>