<p>For almost a decade, USC has eclipsed Cal in terms of SAT scores and GPAs of entering freshmen. Will USC rank higher in next month's report? I wouldn't be surprised if we tie Cal. I also won't be surprised if UCLA falls outside the top 25.</p>
<p>maybe… USC has been on the rise and will continue to rise</p>
<p>Are u sure it’s coming out next month? Last year’s was released in September… I think. </p>
<p>I believe that USC will remain the same and rise next year due to the Common App data, 18% admit, increased SAT scores, and increased endowment.</p>
<p>Modern Man,</p>
<p>U.S. News uses the statistica data from the previous year. Numbers will be from the class that entered in 2011 when the admit rate was 23%.</p>
<p>The magazine uses a variety of factors to determine placement. Some of these are peer assessment, retention rate, average freshmen retention rate, faculty resources, faculty to student ratio, full time faculty percentage, selectivity rank, SAT/ACT scores, freshmen in top 10%, acceptance rate, financial resources, alumni giving and alumni giving rate.</p>
<p>To rise it is necessary to improve in a number of ways, especially peer assessment.</p>
<p>The rankings should come out in September. The university ranked just above SC is Georgetown University.</p>
<p>I’m pretty sure reputation / peer assessment is the single biggest criterion in their rankings, though (20-25%). The big thing is that climbing from here on out is going to be that much more difficult because Georgetown, etc. has its sh-- together in a way that the lesser schools that USC passed did not.</p>
<p>The gamechanger IMHO is the $6 billion endowment campaign. That should have a big effect on the reputation.</p>
<p>Also, USC needs to focus on improving and growing in ways beyond the stupid U.S. News rankings. They have their place, but they’re not everything, not by a long shot.</p>
<p>Jesus this is just like the other thread. Here we go again. You must be some kind of instigator.</p>
<p>I sincerely hope it DOESNT surpass Berkeley. What will it mean if it does? Nothing. People will never take rankings seriously again. Anyone with half a brain knows Cal is better than USC and we USC students shouldn’t be afraid to admit that.</p>
<p>deleted…</p>
<p>Except that, Grabbit, that’s no longer true on the undergraduate level. On the undergraduate level, USC has had better students than both Cal and UCLA for about a decade now. Granted, student quality is only part of undergraduate rankings, but I find it funny that you would suggest that USC is not going to pass Cal given all the other schools it has ALREADY passed.</p>
<p>Nikias’ goal of “undisputed elite status” doesn’t exactly entail slowing down as that is something that both he and Sample and all the trustees have warned against.</p>
<p>Grabbit: UCLA said the same thing not too long ago…</p>
<p>I’m not exactly sure, but I have a feeling grabbit is a ■■■■■. </p>
<p>But, anyways, passing Cal in the undergraduate rankings is inevitable. I predict it will happen within the next 4 years - and that is being conservative. I would even be so bold to say UCLA would in the next 10 years, because of the State’s unfortunate disinvestment in UC. UCLA is the fundraiser king of the UCs and Berkeley lags behind significantly. The state has reduced UC support by $1 billion within a 2 year time period and has continuous plans to make more cuts in the near and distant future. </p>
<p>Additionally, if you have ever met the students at Cal and have been in their classes (which I have) you would know it is a good university, but no means a great one - the exception is Haas.</p>
<p>The scary part is that our student body overall, and despite the fact our undergrad metrics are slightly higher across the board, is more similar to Cal than any other California intuition. According to college.findthebest.com, USC has a larger student body (including grad students) than Cal!</p>
<p>This discussion is as pointless as the semi-annual “When will CC recognize USC as one of their ‘Top US Universities’” threads. Really, who cares where USC is ranked in USNWR? How is your life made better or worse by SC’s movement in the rankings? If USC were to jump to number 1 on the list would 'peace guide the planets and love steer the stars"*?</p>
<p>Here’s the news folks: For USC, the academic wars are over. With admit averages of at least 3.8/2130/32 and an 18% admissions rate, SC is most definitely playing in the big leagues. Everyone’s on the luxury liner, worrying about whether they are tied, one above or one below Cal or UCLA is nothing more than rearranging the deck chairs. Any intelligent SC, Cal or UCLA student/grad realizes that the old stereotypes don’t apply anymore. They also realize that academic quality differences among the student bodies are non-existent. It’s only the stuck in the past pin-heads who can’t seem to let old biases go.</p>
<p>If you insist of living by rankings then be prepared to die by them. Forget rankings, forget CC lists. The best way to shut anyone up is to go out into the world and ‘do it’ not ‘talk about it’. Living well is the best revenge.</p>
<ul>
<li>lyrics from The Age of Aquarius, with apologies to The 5th Dimension</li>
</ul>
<p>vineh–what a great post! You are spot on. USC’s student body is fairly indistinguishable in any meaningful way on quantitative measures from the rest on the prestige cruise liner. </p>
<p>I will add to “do it”… “enjoy it”. The key for prospective students is to visit to identify the atmosphere they judge they will most thrive in. It is important to talk to as many actual students as possible, especially those you may know. While cc is extremely helpful, it is not always clear what the background or motivation of a poster is. </p>
<p>I will offer again that my daughter and I found USC students to be especially vibrant, engaging and extremely happy with their academic and overall college experience, more so than for the other schools she was accepted to. Nevertheless, I encourage each prospective student to determine which college or university environment feels best and they determine is best for them. It may be a USNWR #1, #15, #30 or #?? school, though accepted to all.</p>
<p>The academic war for USC is far from over and has only begun. USC has been fighting for about 100 years to achieve “undisputed” academic elite status. As President Nikias has warned, the last leg of this journey is the most difficult part. For unlike Cornell, JHU, Vanderbilt, Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Duke, Columbia and each of the other top schools, USC had zero endowment or wealthy investors to create and nurture us. All we had were those nascent Trojan family members like Judge Widney and his fellow pioneers who had larger than life dreams. In fact, USC is the only top fundraiser without the pedigree of our new counterparts. We pooled our resources to achieve the unthinkable. And in doing so we created the Trojan Family. As the sagacious judge observed years ago, keep working!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It’s like a Braveheart speech, except nobody cares.</p>
<p>^Except the likes of you…</p>
<p>ModernMan, UCLA raises more money because it has a medical school, Cal doesn’t. Medical research is a huge source of fundraising.</p>
<p>Add UCSF (Cal’s defacto med school) to Cal’s fundraising total to get a better idea of who does better at fundraising.</p>
<p>Med research tugs at heart strings for people to donate more than to a liberal arts program.</p>
<p>Your point? Not one cent of UCSF’s donations go to Berkeley. Repeat, not one cent. </p>
<p>My point still stands.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The real battle, between berkeley and USC, will be fought in the undergraduate academic reputation category. Here, berkeley gets a total of 20.7 out of 22.5 percentage points, whereas USC gets 18.45. It should be noted that these perceptions, change VERY slowly too.</p>
<p>links:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/14590284-post36.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/14590284-post36.html</a></p>
<p>[High</a> School Counselor Rankings | Rankings | Top National Universities | US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/high-school-counselor]High”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/high-school-counselor)</p>
<p>here’s the methodology:</p>
<p>[Methodology:</a> Undergraduate Ranking Criteria and Weights - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2011/09/12/methodology-undergraduate-ranking-criteria-and-weights-2012]Methodology:”>http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2011/09/12/methodology-undergraduate-ranking-criteria-and-weights-2012)</p>
<p>while selectivity is a negligible 1.5% of the total ranking. USC’s slight edge (18% to 22%) in selectivity would probably give is a small boost in fractions of a percent. It’s nothing significant.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>What? Berkeley has a medical school? that seems odd since searching for the world “berkeley” doesn’t seem to bring up any results here 
:</p>
<p><a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/research-rankings[/url]”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/research-rankings</a></p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I agree. we’ve had this argument in the past, with no one agreeing with UCB. It would be a wonderful thing, if a university could have an entire, and wholly independent, university as its med school. But this isn’t the case with Berkeley and UCSF.</p>
<p>While I am by no means endorsing the validity of USNWR rankings, the 18% admit rate for USC vs. 22% for Berkeley, coupled with higher SAT’s (2011 data) at the 25%tile likely will result in high school counselors placing fewer student at USC than Cal. That should get their attention beginning with the current admitted USC class for whom the admit rate for USC dropped from 23% to 18% (rounded). We have yet to see the SAT scores for the class of 2016.</p>
<p>Berkeley
Test Scores – 25th / 75th Percentile
SAT Critical Reading: 600 / 730
SAT Math: 630 / 760
SAT Writing: 610 / 740</p>
<p>USC
Test Scores – 25th / 75th Percentile
SAT Critical Reading: 610 / 720
SAT Math: 670 / 770
SAT Writing: 650 / 740</p>